Co-Worker JUST Said, "I Have Never Thought Of That" - IDIOT

[matcom]

just walked in the door. saw my copy of the Boston Globe on my desk (bring it in every day).

says to me, "Wow, we are losing soldiers every day aren't we?"

Me: "Pretty ugly aint it?"
Him: "Don't know how we are ever gonna get out of there."
Me: "We should have never gone in"
Him: "You *might* be right"
Me: "Oh, i am POSITIVE i am right!"
Me: "Think about it. What if another country preemptively invaded US? what if WE were being occupied? what would YOU do?"

Him: "Huh. I have never thought of that."

Me: "Why don't you go upstairs and THINK for a while. When your done, you can get back to me."

:grr:

[Dude_CalmDown]

1. Punch him in the throat

Ask him if he ever thought you'd do that.

[matcom]

2. *SNARF*

bbbwwwwwaaaaahhhhaaaaa

[ForestsBeatBushes]

6. Don't think I have not thought

of that every day I'm in the office.

Several staff members are evangelical Christians who still condescendingly explain to me how Bush WON the 2000 election.

Hold me back, I'm beggin' ya', hold me back.

[Dude_CalmDown]

7. You are certainly an individual of great restraint.

I can barely tolerate mild conservatives but if I had to deal with evangelicals I would probably end up drooling on my straight jacket as I rock back and forth muttering dreams of bludgeoning Jerry Falwell to death with a sack of dildos. I start a job in about a week where I will most likely be outnumbered - but at least I won't have to work with evangelicals. Good luck and stay sane.

[LeahMira]

28. Strange...

Several staff members are evangelical Christians who still condescendingly explain to me how Bush WON the 2000 election.

Why, at this point, after nearly three years, do they feel the need to "explain" that to you? Are they really that insecure?

[ForestsBeatBushes]

32. Yes.

And they are really that angry that I still won't accede to their idiocy.

Note: I have a private office to which I often shut the door...not too quietly either, I'm afraid.

[HFishbine]

3. Be Nice

If we are going to win in '04, we are going to need the idiot vote. When you see a glimmer of hope, it must be encouraged. Arrogance and confrontation will only drive the frightened ones back into their holes. Give them some gentle coaxing to come to the light.

[Dude_CalmDown]

5. You're right (as hard as it is to keep from jamming a pencil in their ear)

...every glimmer of hope should be treated like your last pack of matches when you're lost in the Alaskan wilderness. Sometimes it's fun to dream though.

[DrFunkenstein]

4. Wolverines!

The beauty of Red Dawn is it plays right into that fantasy. Chew on this - at the height of American counter-revolutionary power (think Nicaragua), we are putting out wishful fantasies about being the "rebels." Use the force, Luke!

[RogueTrooper]

10. Brilliant Movie

so right wing it howls at the moon; but still brilliant :D

[DrFunkenstein]

14. It Seriously Is A Nutball Militia Man Movie

Remember the dad saying that he knows he was hard on his kids, but he taught them to be strong and survive - that guy is friggin' nuts! There's no Soviets going to parachute in during homeroom!

PS - If you remember, the Wolverines actually commit a terrorist act. Jennifer "Baby" Grey plants a bomb in a corner store - straight out of Battle of Algiers (another great flick).

[AWD]

12. DrFunk thinking along the right lines again!

I was thinking the exact same thing, and damn if you didn't beat me to the punch!

[MrPrax]

26. Total laughs...

Imagine the high school football team saving America...

A few of us went to that one at a second run rep theatre (knew the advanced billing as best propaganda since the Green Berets...)

At the scene in the movie, where they play the Internationale in the background, we all got up in a moment of 'patriotic' fervor and stood at attention singing along...about ten other people, laughing, did the same thing...

HAhahaha

[Junkdrawer]

8. Are we Liberated yet? And when does it become an Occupation?

And aren't there international rules about occupations?

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

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[ProfessorGAC]

11. Huh?

A stupid argument. Isn't it, by definition, a sound argument any time it gets the other person to reconsider their position?

The tone may have, indeed, been a little rough. But, i don't see how that makes it stupid. I read your post, and the logic doesn't work. Any analogy regarding invasion would be a reasonable jumping off point. Why does the lack of probability invalidate the analogy?
The Professor

[Hep]

15. NO!

A stupid argument. Isn't it, by definition, a sound argument any time it gets the other person to reconsider their position?

By no means. How sound is the change of position? He changes his mind until he realizes how STUPID the idea of us being invaded and occupied is.

I remember when I was a kid during the cold war and my brother told me that if Dukakis won the election, the soviets would invade and take over our country. IT'S A STUPID ARGUMENT. We don't need stupid arguments. We have GOOD arguments on our side. We need to raise the level of debate, not placate our adversaries by dumbing ourselves down.

The tone may have, indeed, been a little rough. But, i don't see how that makes it stupid. I read your post, and the logic doesn't work. Any analogy regarding invasion would be a reasonable jumping off point. Why does the lack of probability invalidate the analogy?

How far are you willing to extend this faulty logic? Using ridiculous hypotheticals? We need to boycott French products because if we don't, we'll be giving them the money they need to mount an invasion of our country!

We don't need to play on people's fears to get our point across. We have logic and truth on our side. No one was WON OVER with that argument.

[ProfessorGAC]

22. I Think Someone Was

I'd buy your point, if the other person wasn't reconsidering their stance.

That doesn't make the other person all that bright, but they reconsidered nonetheless. Your dismissal of that person because they were too easily persuaded is quite a convenient way to avoid the point.

Your 3rd paragraph (excluding the pastes from my post) is a nonsequitur. It's got nothing to do with anything i said. An analogy is an analogy. The lack of probability doesn't intrinsically invalidate an analogy. Also, the French point isn't even an analogy. That's why it's a nonsequitur.

Your last sentence is provably wrong. The original poster said someone WAS won over. I'm in no place to challenge the original poster's stated accomplishment. Neither are you.
The Professor

[Hep]

25. we don't know!

I'd buy your point, if the other person wasn't reconsidering their stance.

How do you know the guy reconsidered his stance at all? How do you know he didn't walk away shaking his head laughing at the ridiculous argument thrown at him?

Your 3rd paragraph (excluding the pastes from my post) is a nonsequitur. It's got nothing to do with anything i said. An analogy is an analogy. The lack of probability doesn't intrinsically invalidate an analogy.

Of course it does! You don't even have to consider the analogy if it is borne out of the realm of fantasy. What if aliens decide the US is a danger to the planet and invade and occupy our country?

Well, gee, I hadn't thought of that!

The original poster said someone WAS won over.

Where in the original post did it say that?

[ProfessorGAC]

35. Next!

There is no point in continuing this debate. You get to decide what's stupid and what's not for the rest of us. What a burden that must be.
The Professor

[Hep]

39. The unanswered challenge:

Where does it say the guy was won over?

I'm happy deciding what's stupid for everyone. It's not hard.

[leesa]

30. What is your problem? What a neophyte!

We don't need to play to people's fears, truth and logic will win out?? Right...tell me another one. All he is pointing out is a very valid point...that we would have responded just as the Iraqis did when they were invaded and occupied. It is wrong to label them as terrorists for defending their country from an unprovoked attack.

Jeesh!

[Hep]

41. What is my problem? It isn't obvious?

We don't need to play to people's fears, truth and logic will win out?? Right...tell me another one. All he is pointing out is a very valid point...that we would have responded just as the Iraqis did when they were invaded and occupied. It is wrong to label them as terrorists for defending their country from an unprovoked attack.

We would have responded the same way? No we wouldn't have! We would have kicked their asses! There wouldn't BE an occupation!

It is wrong to label SOME of them trerrorists. SOME of them ARE terrorists. I know you aren't denying that. At least I hope to GOD you aren't denying that.

The war was a bad choice, YES, TRUE, FACT. But bad logic is bad logic no matter how you skew it.

All I'm doing ius asking why we can't make INTELLIGENT arguments. It's not for lack of availability. We have TRUTH on our side.

And we don't need to make other people feel stupid, especially if that's the argument we're making.

[el_gato]

16. It was a good point to consider

"How would you like it if another country invaded yours?"

That's a perfectly valid thing to consider.

[Hep]

19. It's not valid at all

There's no basis for drawing a parallel. For it to be a valid analogy, there would have to be SOME similarity in our country and the country we invaded. If another country invaded ours, we'd kick the living shit out of them. That simple. We'd have about 20 other countries coming to our aid, it would be over very quickly, and we would end up beating the living CRAP out of whoever tried to do it.

Good enough?

It's a stupid argument in a sea of perfectly strong arguments. And to make someone else feel stupid is assholery. WE DON'T SWAGGER. We're not them.

[AWD]

27. My ignore list grows by one....

A DUer actually gets a guy to think about the war and what it's doing, and he gets attacked as being "stupid" for it.

Argue with the truth and not fear? The guy WORKS WITH MATCOM! I'm willing to bet he's heard all the other arguments up until now...after all, he WORKS WITH MATCOM!

But now, the guy actually took at least one second to stop and think. Good enough for me, because he clearly hadn't thought about it for that period of time up until now.

Matcom did something no other person had done before. He made the guy think.

He's not stupid for that....he's brilliant. Way to go Matcom!

Ignore list, table for one.

[Hep]

29. Thanks for the notification, no really

A DUer actually gets a guy to think about the war and what it's doing, and he gets attacked as being "stupid" for it.

Yep. And if that's the extent of your grasp for nuance, then we'll leave it at that. If you don't get the point that we don't need to make dumb arguments, fine. Go ask pro war people, "If Bush jumped off a cliff, would you do it too?" I'm going to argue against the war with TRUTH and FACTS, not conjured up images of internment camps and torture.

[AWD]

13. Whaaaaaaa????

So it's a stupid argument because it wouldn't actually happen?

www.webster.com - look up the word "hypothetical" and get back to us.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

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[Hep]

24. "The end justifies the means"

I don't believe that. It made the guy think? About what? What would happen if we were invaded and occupied? WHO cares?

He's going to take that argument to some other pro-war character and get his ass kicked, and then you've lost him forever.


The fact is that you don't know if it worked. The only thing the guy said was, "I hadn't thought about that". I don't see where he said, "Youre right"

For all you know he's going to call Sean Hannity's show and say, "Guess what this liberal IDIOT told me today" and Sean and him are going to have a good laugh at our friend's expense. And of course, making him feel like an idiot certainly didn't help matters.

[WoodrowFan]

45. if it works it ain't stupid.

[Hep]

46. That's it

Whatever. Set the intellectual bar as low as you want. Screw the precedent. If it works to chase children around the state fair with fake fetuses in jars, then let the prolife movement do it. If it works to conjure up images of your wife or mother being raped then MAKE that argument against gun control. Any argument is fine as long as it works.

At least, that's what the BUSH administration believes. They've been doing it since day one, and I could have SWORN that it was this cynical means of manipulation that was pissing us off. Apparently, it's been a learning experience for lots of us.

[Sperk]

23. seems like millions just don't "think" AT ALL!!!!!!

Sometimes I am so disgusted with my fellow Americans...Present company excepted.

[ForestsBeatBushes]

34. You are too kind.

No, seriously, you ARE too kind.

:evilgrin:

[MUAD_DIB]

31. Give him the paper once you're done with it.

In fact leave a few around the office. You never know who might start reading the facts instead of drooling in front of FAUX Snooz.

Think of how many idiots you might convert.


BTW: Don't get work angry. You'll develop an ulcer that way.

[matcom]

33. LET ME CLARIFY SOMETHING SINCE THIS *WAS* MY THREAD

i am amazed that this thread turned into a flame war.

having said that:

My coworkers point was that he was AMAZED that they (the Iraqi citizenry) were still fighting "our boys" and NOT showering them with flowers (and whatever other propaganda his "news" provided before Shock and Awe)

My coworker was "seeing the light" as it were to the "Quagmire" we are in.

My coworker was genuinly "amazed" that our boys were STILL being KILLED everyday.

My coworker MAY (read MAY) be thinking that this wasn't such a great idea after all (he initially supported this).

so, while my "TONE" may not have been what some of you wanted, the point i made to him was this:

WHY ARE YOU SO SURPRISED THAT MEMBERS OF ANOTHER SOCIETY WOULD NOT SIT BACK AND ENJOY OUR OCCUPATION?

hope that helps you all. go back to eating each other over "hypotheticals" :eyes:

[ProfessorGAC]

36. Sorry For The Hijack Matcom

Didn't mean for that to happen.
The Professor

[matcom]

38. not your fault pal

[ForestsBeatBushes]

37. "Go back to eating each other..."?

:evilgrin:

[IrateCitizen]

Nope, your point was perfectly valid, matcom

It's called tapping into empathy -- you know, the idea of putting yourself into another person's position to try and understand why they would act the way they do.

For anyone that says that your method was "stupid" (and it's only one repeatedly saying that), they're just plain delusional. You are the one who was there, you know this other person, and it sounded as if your method worked.

Keep up the good work.

[Hep]

43. I love being called out!

Thanks for referring to me in your post! I just wanted to let you know that I saw it, so your efforts weren't for nothing!

[AWD]

40. Thanks for clarifying!

...and good job today!

P.S. Try not to say "eating each other" in the same screen shot as that ass-crack sig line of yours. Very disturbing.

[Hep]

42. Rock on

That makes a lot more sense. Thanks.

[in_cog_ni_to]

44. Oy!

hurts the little pea brains to "think", eh?