Dems need to dump Zell Miller

[spanone]

This guys going around talking about how great bush is and how stupid the democrat wannabes are. Get this asshole out of the party.

[kstewart33]

1. I'm with you

I've reached a point where I don't care if we lose another one in the Senate. Miller is an embarrassment to the party.

[JHB]

2. Send Zell Pell Mell (out of the Party)

FOR WHOM THE ZELL TOLLS: Zell Miller said about his endorsement of Dubyah: "This does not mean I am going to become a Republican...." Nope. Sorry. Tom Daschle must take a stand on this and drum Miller out of the Democratic party and out of the Democratic caucus. So long as Miller, in all news reports from now through election day, is labeled as a "Democrat," his endorsement of Bush is damaging.

If, on the other hand, he switches parties, or becomes an independent, his endorsement will have less impact. Bush and his cronies can claim, otherwise, that they have "bi-partisan support" for his incompetent and destructive, foreign and domestic policies.

The Democrats already are in the minority in the Senate, and Miller never votes with them on substantive issues anyway. So...push him out. Disavow him. Ban him from your caucus meetings. In practical terms, how can you have political strategy discussions about how you are going to defeat President Bush and his agenda...with Zell Miller sitting there in the room with you?!? Just from that standpoint alone, he has to go. They can't force him to stop calling himself a "Democrat." But they sure as hell can stop treating him like one.
...
It's pretty clear that Zell Miller is certifiably insane!!!

Contact Tom Daschle and DEMAND that he and the rest of the Democratic caucus, disavow this worm.
http://counterspin.blogspot.com/2003_10_26_counterspin_archive.html#106752699413158918

URL for contacting Daschle:
http://daschle.senate.gov/webform.html

[xultar]

3. Everyone...This is URGENT...

Please do whatever you can over the next few days and email, call or fax all of the Democratic Congressmen & Congresswomen and Simpy say...

OUST ZELL!


This is urgent. ZELL is apparently sick and has completely lost his mind. I don't know what the FUCK is wrong but he has got to be STOPPED. This is urgent.

Contact your state and local Democrat Party Leaders. YELL! :grr: This is an outrage! :grr:

[59millionmorons]

4. He hasnt lost his mind

He is trying to sell a book and this is the only way he can get people to buy it. He knows Democrats wont buy his book, so he has to play to the right. This is not new. Margaret Carlson was always a backer of the dems, then she decided to write a book and needed to help sales, so she started praising Bush. Now after the book has come out and her sales are down, she is back bashing Bush. It's all about the money.

[xultar]

5. This is different...

Clearly the war in Iraq isn't going well. Afghanistan, PUHLEEZ that is not going well either. We've got troops out there dying and this guy won't shut his pie-hole. Even the repug senators and representatives are keeping a low profile where bush is concerned.

Running around like a fuckin wingnut fruitcake in this mess while we have 9 Presidential candidates out there isn't for the money. Zell Miller is a wingnut. It's not about the book because he's been like this all along. The difference now is we are in the fight of our lives where the presidency is concerned and he's cheerleading for the other team.

[spanone]

22. Everything is about money, but this is the wrong time for this asshole to

cash in. He praises Kennedy over and over but Kennedy is dead and he ain't coming back. This morning he praised the bush iraq policy and put down every candidate running for the Dems. Make him do it from the other side of the isle.

[JHB]

7. Little Red Riding Dem:

Little Red Riding Dem: Grandma! What wide floppy ears you have!

Zell: Of course child! The better to swat tax-and-spend flies with, like all the other donkeys, dear.

Little Red Riding Dem: Grandma! What long ... long, long, LONG nose you have!

Zell: Of course, precious! The better to sniff out treasonous Vermonters, just like all the other donkeys, dear.

Little Red Riding Dem: And Grandma! What big stampy feet you have!

Zell: Of course, little one! The better to crush the life out of you braying hoof-headed glue-boys who don't understand who's in charge now! ...*ahem*, dear.

[LuCifer]

6. Zell Miller reminds me of...

...the asswipe mayor of Ft. Lauderdale, Jim Naugle. Democrat huh? Sure. That's why everything he says sounds like it's coming out of a RepubliKKKan's mouth. Piece of CRAP.

[Blue_Roses]

8. he needs to go

no doubt about it. I watched him this morning--briefly--and he made my skin crawl. He is doing the party more harm than good.

[RandomUser]

10. I agree

Zell is doing a lot more damage than good for us right now.

[John_H]

9. My letter to daschle

Write your own and send itr in!!!!

Dear Senator Daschl:e

Zell Miller’s jihad against his own party has gone too far, and it’s past time for you to act. As a “Democrat” he’s doing more to damage our electoral prospects than any Republican ever could, and yet you seem unwilling or unable to act.

With Zell Miller’s vocal support, every one of the GOP’s misguided initiatives becomes “bi-partisan.” The media is already making a huge issue of his endorsement, giving him airtime to bash our proposals and candidates. I’d bet a hundred bucks that in the months ahead the white house will tout Miller’s endorsement as a sign that Bush engenders “the support of Democrats and Republicans alike” and is truly a “uniter not a divider.”

Miller’s pronouncements can only sap morale from our party’s citizen activists, since they only add to the aura of invincibility that the White House spin machine tries so hard to maintain. If party leadership appears weak, we can expect less grassroots support--if the leadership won’t fight, why should the folks on the ground?

You have the power to transform Zell Miller from a walking, talking GOP public relations stunt into just another conservative who supports George Bush’s divisive agenda. Decisive action will energize loyal democrats, assure our friends and foes alike that we stand firm in our convictions, and send strong message to others who may be more concerned about their own political futures than fighting for the ideals that make our party great.

Please don’t roll over on this one, Senator.

Sincerely.,

John HXXXXX

[RandomUser]

11. looking at the ramifications -- a complicated stance

First of all, I hate what Zell is doing right now. He is doing the party more harm than good, and I really want to see him kicked out of the party.

Having said that, let's consider the ramifications. What message will it send to other conservative dems? That if they step out of line or don't vote in lockstep with the leadership, we'll kick them out? This negates our moral authority as the party of the "big tent" and might lead us down the punitive path that caused Jeffords to switch parties.

Now, some might argue that since they don't agree with most of our ideals anyway, and vote in somewhat republican patterns, perhaps they would be happier in the other party. Or get morally uppity and say we don't want or need them in our party. But it doesn't send a very positive reinforcing message that we're a party of diverse and often opposed viewpoints. Tolerance -- the image, if not substance -- is a very powerful tool for the Democratic Party to espouse. It has pragmatic implications in swaying voters, and allowing us to hold together a broad based coalition.

So, my current thoughts at this time, subject to change, is that Zell Miller is scum and doing more harm than good for our party. But kicking him out would do even more harm to the party. So, reluctantly, despite how I want to kick him out, I must conclude that we shouldn't embark on that final step. Our leadership should be out there criticizing him and vehemently disagreeing with him, but that final step of kicking someone out of our party should not be taken.

[JHB]

12. This isn't merely a disagreement...

...he's not only endorsing the opposition (which is something that can happen in some districts), but he's LOUDLY endorsing them AND actively attacking the Party's own candidates.

It doesn't undermine a "big tent" to eject guys taking an axe to the support poles. Once they cross that line, out they go -- through the door or out the window.

[RandomUser]

16. He's taking it to the media

That's where Zell is doing his damage. And it's important that we refute him in that arena. If we kicke him out, the media will spin it as thin-skinned whiny democrats who can't even play nice with each other or take criticism. Or they'll spin it as radical idealogical militants in the left who are totalitarianly squashing all dissent.

The way to win is by defeating Zell in the media circus, where he's doing the damage. The leadership needs to not just criticize him by paint him as being an idiot and a fool, and not very bright.

Xray's suggestion in #11 is would be great. If Wes Clark (or Dashle or someone in the leadership) debated him or deconstructed Zell's arguments in the media, we can make Zell out to be as laughing stock. If we can make Zell look like a fool, we win. Sacrastic scorn and laughter from the public would do a lot more to undermine his credibility than kicking him out of the party.

If we kick him out of the party, he'll just continue doing what he's doing, and even be more affective at it because he can then play the wronged victim card. He can claim he was cast out by the mean intolerant liberals. Just as Jefford's defection and criticism of Bush was made powerful by his one-time status as a Republican. Zell's new outcast victim status would give him even more media attention and more credibility.

No, tossing Zell out of the party would be a mistake we would regret deeply. It would only serve to magnify and add credibility to Zell. We need the party leadership to fight Zell in the court of public opinion. But I'm just afraid our party leadership is too stupid to see what it is they need to do to counter Zell.

[JHB]

18. I'm not saying you're wrong...

But I think we're both right.

He needs to be addressed forcefully, made to look like the fool that he is, and be treated as persona non grata by the party.

He doesn't have to be kicked out to be shunned.

[RandomUser]

25. Yes

By no means am I implying we should welcome Zell into our hearts. He should indeed be shunned and treated as persona non grata. But kicking him out is the wrong approach.

[xray s]

13. I would love to see Wes Clark rebut all of Miller's points

I think Clark would do the party a great service and he would win a lot of respect from some who doubt his sincerity by taking Miller's arguements apart in a calm, methodical, logical way.

Wes is the best man to explain why Miller is wrong.

Then we all can prove Miller wrong next November when we take back our government.

[RandomUser]

19. This would be the most effective approach

Marginalizing Zell as a fool would be a lot more effective than kicking him out.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. Our tent shouldn't be so big

that it takes in the opposition's tent.

What would the Republicans do to someone who announced that he supported one of the Democratic candidates?

[burr]

14. Democrats must have the right to expel its members...

if a member violates Senate rules, or the rules of senority..then they should be expelled. Even Richard Russell, a segregationist Senator, claimed to have always supported the Democratic ticket in public..although in private he said he preferred Nixon in 1968. If a member endorses the Republican nominee publically, then that member must be expelled from the party. Why else have a party, if we do not have some standard for unity?

We cannot continue to cut each other's throats like this...especially as the party which is fighting to get back the majority!

[in_cog_ni_to]

15. I just sent Daschle another email.

I wonder if it will even matter. :( I get the feeling that whatever we do these days is useless. I have yet to hear Daschle say one damn word about what Zell Miller is doing. Has anyone else heard him speak out on the subject?

[11 Bravo]

17. Yeah ... down a mineshaft.

n/t

[DrFunkenstein]

20. No

I don't think we should kick everyone out of the club for dissenting. This is why liberals can't screw in a friggin' lightbulb.

[JHB]

24. Dumping isn't neccessary...

...but isolating him is. He's not just dissenting, he's attacking, and NOT responding to that is just weak.

[RandomUser]

26. No just isolation

but an active counter campaign in the media. Kicking him out would indeed be stupid at this point. He's probably half hoping we would.

[burr]

28. I agree...

let's make Trent Lott, Tom Delay, and Saxby Chambliss...honorary Democrats as well!!!

Georgy..can be the honorary democratic running mate!!! OHHH how exciting!!! :7

[RandomUser]

29. Please see my other comments in this thread

Kicking him out is the least effective approach. There are other approaches, ways that damage Zell much more effectively and wound him much more deeply, without costing us a thing.

[burr]

33. My argument is to "give Democrats the right to kick members out"

this will bring members to heel, and drive out the DINOs..and the backstabbers. And if Zell Miller participates in GOP campaign events, fundraisers for Shrub, and in efforts to help other GOP candidates...then we must expel him from the party.

[Iverson]

21. You want a martyr?

Sacrifice lefties and no one will care, but make a martyr out of Zell Miller, and you play into the hands of the right wing.

Make him irrelevant instead.

[RandomUser]

27. I agree -- we can't kick him out

But we must make him irrelevant and the laughingstock of the media.

[LTR]

32. It worked for Traficant

He sided with the GOP, and the Dems stripped him of his committee assignments.

They can't get rid of him, but they can make life difficult.

[farmbo]

23. Fire the a**hole! Fire him now!

His choice of timing on his book roll-out and promotional tour was deliberately designed to dampen Democratic voter turnout in today's election...particularly in Mississippi and Kentucky.

The man is either senile or evil, or both.

:grr:

[kaitykaity]

30. Profanity.

Although this thread is technically in violation of rule #2 here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=463744
there is an active enough discussion that it will be allowed to remain open.

However, please be aware that "asshole" is not allowed in the original post in most instances.

Thanks,


kaitykaity
DU Moderator

[VermontDem2004]

34. *