The Hits Just Keep On Coming....

[DemocratSinceBirth]

I hate to be the Cassandra of this board but it doesn't feel like this is the best times for Democrats. With Bob Graham's impending retirement the Democrats will have to defend four open southern Senate seats-Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, and South Carolina. If you had to bet like your life was dependent on it which party is most likely to get a sweep.....

There are gubernatorial races in Mississippi, Kentucky, and Louisiana. What are our prospects in these races....

Don't forget the California fiasco.... The four largest states in the Union now have R governors...


And the coup de grace is the latest ABC-Washington Post poll which indicates that the two parties are at parity in identification for the first time in a generation.... We Dems have won some races and lost some races but we always had a cushion in registration and identification and now that seems to be gone....

I am looking for answers but to solve a problem you must admit you have one... The Democrats have a problem.... This problem needs to be solved... The fate of our nation depends on it....

[theivoryqueen]

1. not a popular suggestion, but...

how about if every Democratic presidential candidate who is a senator stays in the senate?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. Only Two Senators Running

Kerry and Lieberman.....

If either win we get the presidency... If either lose they go back to the Senate...

[CO Liberal]

8. Three - John Edwards

[Brian Sweat]

10. What about Edwards?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. Thank You-Forgot

Erskine Bowles has a decent shot at winning that seat.....


GA and SC are going to be tough...


FL is a tossup.... Bill Nelson who had the benefit of being a popular statewide politician beat Bill "Impeachment Manager McCollum" 50-48% in the 00 senate race....

Folks on this board would call him a Demnot or a DINO but as a Floridian I'd take a million Bill Nelsons over one Bill McCollum...

[JNelson6563]

17. he's not running for RE though

So he's gone after this term no matter what, I'm sad to report.

Julie

[Wellong]

26. Edwards

While Edwards is running for President, should he not get the nomination, or get the nominatin and lose he does not return to the Senate like Kerry or Liberman. He is not running for reelection. Its an open seat race in NC.

[DUreader]

3. Will Dems in Denial continue to attack the messengers

or return to their base

[Roark]

4. When we stop talking to people like this....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=644667&mesg_id=644667

[NewYorkerfromMass]

9. and Dean's not setting a good example in polite speaking habits

although a few Democrats get turned on by it I can assure you a lot more are turned off. It's a net loss to be so negative.

[9119495]

22. Yeah, nor is Kerry, Gephardt, Lieberman, Sharpton.

You won't be supporting them either I assume?

[DemLikr]

29. You mean as opposed to the polite, kind language from the WH?

Oh puhleeeeeeeeeease...we tried milquetoast with the Gore campaign. It didn't taste good at all.

[Forkboy]

32. I stand waiting to be "assured"

you say you can assure me....go ahead,I'm waiting.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. I Don't Know What The Answer Is....

Part of it is the ebb and flow of politics.... Folks thought the Republican party was dead in 1974 in the aftermath of Watergate... I believe they were down to a dozen or so governors, thirty or so senators, and one hundred forty or so representatives... But they worked their way out of that hole....

I am just afraid that if * is reelected and the R's get more senate seats they will pack the courts and flood America with reactionary legislation and court rulings....

It's a frightening prospect....

[RandomUser]

13. You're hit upon the single most crucial point

The most lasting damage would be if they succeeded in packing the courts. If they do that, even if the then fall out of power, the damage would take decades to heal. Winning the WH is not enough, we need a landslide to maintain integrity of the judicial nomination process.

I believe this is part of the ebb and flow of politics, and the pendulum will swing back and forth. But if they manage to pack the courts, the pendulum would have created significant momentum.

[Bandit]

12. Who is the base? ~Zell Miller & Joe Leiberman

With Democrats like these it is no wonder the party is having identity problems.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. Zell Miller Has Lost His Mind

and you don't air your dirty laundry in public but we'll soon find out if he's the only Dem who can hold that seat....


As for Joe Lieberman despite his support for the war which is a position he shared with twenty or so other Democratic senators and his shrill rhetoric he's still a reliable vote on most issues of importance to Democrats......

We are in a battle and now is a bad time for a purge....

As an aside one of the reasons Iraq had so many early victories over Iran in the early days of the Iraq-Iran war is because the Ayatollah Khomenei had purged most of the Shah's officer corps....

This is a battle... I want as many soldiers with me as possible...

[Bandit]

27. This is a battle... I want as many soldiers with me as possible...

Wasn't Bennedict Arnold a "good" soldier also? If they stab you in the back then the battle is not going to go well. I personally don't trust a large portion of the Democrats in Congress to do the right thing. They have demonstrated in the last two and a half years they have no courage to stand up to this Cabal so why would they change now? Bush* has not been denied a single thing he wanted. Some things were paired down a bit but never denied.

[dennis4868]

5. Plus...

with black box voting who knows if our votes will even be counted.

DEMOCRACY IS DEAD!

[tom_paine]

7. No, it's a good time to be a Cassandra, DSB

Cassandras are like broken clocks. Twice an era they (we) are right.

And oh how right. Just look at how right those "wacky conspiracy theorists" were in 1933.

The Repugs have taken steps, including the creation of Goebbels v2.0 "Adolf buolds a bonfire, Rush Limbaugh plays with it", that are designed to prevent the free flow of information and ideas.

And the doubling/tripling/quadrupling of media outlets that we saw with the explosion of Cable TV (which allowed the Busheviks to create their Party-Loyal Right-Wing Sub-Media) is not likely to happen again.

No democracy or republic can survive such an assault of what is essentially the lifeblood of self-rule.

I don't know what the answer is, DSB. I feel like a German Jew in 1935.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. Let's Not Give Into Despair....

Let's recognize the problem and fix it...


The Germany comparison made me chuckle...


I can remember the 1980 election when we lost the presidency and the Senate for the first time in three decades and I walked into my poli sci professor's office to discuss it... His first words were " It feels like Germany, 1933...

LOL...

[tom_paine]

21. I didn't say I was giving up...

I will NEVER GIVE UP!

Having said that, and having felt to a much lesser degree like your professor (and being a good bit younger than you and he both), I believe there is something to what he said.

Consdiering, when taking the long view, 1980 was the first of Bush I's 12 year reign. During this time, a wide variety of issues were "taken care of" that have lead us unerringly to our Imperial Destiny (though the outcome is still in doubt) many years later. Things such as removal of the Fairness Doctrine, the creation of the Party-Loyal Right-Wing Sub-Media in embryonic form and the accompanying bullying "working the ref" cries of "librul media" which stpped into overdrive...

(there's more but you get the idea...now that Bunnypants* "Teflon" has reached absurdist Orwellian proportions, Reagan's "Teflon" seems much less a natural occurrance but more like a early test run for the Bushevik Lie-Laundry-Infrastructure that I like to call Goebbels v2.0...Ollie North a 95% approval rating, eh?)

Having said this, it seems logical that people might instinctually recognize these things and overreact upon foreseeing the ends which even we at this late date have not yet begun to see.

Just my 2 cents.

Perhaps I am wrong. I certainly hope so. But the stage has been set.

Whattaya think?

[JackRiddler]

28. Redeem Cassandra!

Not that it matters, but people should finally stop bashing Cassandra. According to the Greek myths and legends, Cassandra* was right about everything she saw coming. Nor was any of it a self-fulfilling prophecy; she just had the bad luck and the talent to see what the gods were really planning to do, and in the case of her, her family and her city it was all very bad news. You want a figure to mock, use Chicken Little. Get off Cassandra's back already.

(* daughter of the Trojan king Priam, sister to Hector and Paris, and in the final weeks of her life unwilling mistress to the victorious plunderer Agamemnon - just before both were murdered by A's wife Clytemnistra.)

[livinontheedge]

11. The answer is obvious . . . we have to start winning in the south.

I don't care much about Zell Miller, but I do believe he is right in asserting that democrats don't connect all that well to southern white males. Our positions on affirmative action, national defense, gun control, higher taxes, and abortion do not attract them to our party.

I don't suggest for a minute that we compromise our values whatsoever. But, we can't do shit about our agenda until we start winning more congressional elections, not to mention the WH.

Perhaps we can tone down our rhetoric just a bit and not scare so many off?

[RandomUser]

15. You're right

The south is the key to Republican power. If we can swipe that key away, we will win. And to do that, we have two choices. As another member on DU has stated, a southerner -- "The south will either vote for a conservative or a southerner." Frankly, I prefer to give them the latter, rather than the former.

[livinontheedge]

18. Even a southern liberal couldn't win the south.

You don't have to be a conservative, but you sure as hell have to be moderate, particularly if you are a southener.

A southerner who will reduce taxes (like JFK), fight terror, promote "class-based" affirmative action and fight new gun laws will win EVERY southern state. We could take back the senate, the house and most governors' mansions.

[Atlant]

23. Dream on.

The Republicans will continue to own the South as long as they
can suppress minority turnout.

The Republican echo chamber of churches, media, and gun-toting
White guys in pickup trucks (yes, with Confederate Flags in the
window) will simply overwhelm any rational attempt by any real
Democrat to "win the South".

Atlant

[RichM]

24. You may not have noticed this, but GW Bush fits your criteria perfectly.

A southerner who will reduce taxes (like JFK), fight terror, promote "class-based" affirmative action and fight new gun laws will win EVERY southern state...

Bush is a southerner who will reduce taxes, fight terror, & fight gun laws. (I'm not quite sure what you mean by "class-based" A.A. so let's leave that one out.) But there ya go -- I've pretty much found you your "dream" candidate!

[Julien Sorel]

20. The Republicans are simply playing a smarter game.

Let's look at the California fiasco as an example. Arnold would have had a hard time getting past the Repub gatekeepers because of his social liberalism, and in a grueling, real election his skeletons would have come out of the closet and beat him to death. So what did the Repubs do? They snuck him by with the whole recall thing. The recall was immoral, anti-democratic, ruthless, and it worked. The national party used it to outsmart both its own radical elements, and the electorate. Until the Democrats are able to do that -- beat their radicals while appealing to the mainstream -- the party is going to be in trouble.

The party is too divided now to control its radicals, who still look back on the glory days of the 60s as achievable, and want to pretend that the mood of the country itself is irrelevant -- look at some of the posts here, for example. The most centrist Democrats are leading in the polls, while the most 'extreme' don't even register, and yet you still have people here demanding that the party turn left. I hate to sound, not like a Cassandra, but like a pessimist, but I think the worst is still to come. While those people, many of them core activists, have influence, this party is going to be vulnerable.

[blm]

25. The fact that California even supported a recall should open eyes more.

2004 is NOT going to be a cakewalk, even with Bush showing poor poll numbers now. I think they will have put a large enough bandaid on Iraq next year to give a semblance of peace, and the press will glorify Bush for his "steadfastness" and "despite all the negativity from the naysayers." That's how they work.

They have their own quiet network they have developed through the churches to mobilize their vote in the areas targeted. By keeping the religious right quieter during the election cycle, they lessen the fight against them because the expectations have been lowered.

We have to be prepared and be aware of every trick in their book. Fighting the media is a huge task in itself, and one that we cannot falter.

[Q]

30. You're just not adjusted to the one-party state...

...but you'll get used to it. They all do.

- I look forward to hearing all the excuses from the NeoDems after we 'lose' the 2004 election. It will be interesting to see who they blame next time.

- They certainly won't blame themselves or their rightward slant and abandonment of the working class poor.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. Shameless Kick....

[MadHound]

33. Hear, hear Q

They'll blame those darn Greens, who, though "insignificant", managed to keep Gore out of office. They'll blame the progressive wing of the party, who, though "insignificant", manage to pull the Democratic party too far to the left.:eyes: They will blame Kucinich, Sharpton, Mosely-Braun, who, though "insignificant", managed to split the party's vote and message. They will blame everybody and everything except where the blame truly lies, themselves.

If the Democratic party wishes to win again, if they wish to be a viable, vibrant party again, then they need to kick their corporate masters to the curb and return to their roots. These Neo-Dems bitch and whine and moan about how half the population isn't voting(most of whom are natural Dem constituents), or how the Greens are siphoning off votes. Well, there is a reason for that. The DLC and Democratic Party leadership has abandoned them, because instead of remaining true to their constituents they went whoring after that corporate money. And once corporate Amerikkka got their hands on the Dems they pulled the Dems rightward, and made them pro-corporations. They said they were going to the "center", to get those "swing" votes. They said that America was no longer in touch with the left leaning, New Deal, Great Society Democrats of yore, even though poll after poll suggests exactly the opposite(though to be fair, Americans don't want to be called liberal). But why would a centerist voter cast his ballot for a 'Pug-lite when he can get the real thing?

Meanwhile the disheartened and discouraged through up their hands in righteous dispair and sat out the elections. Those with more fight, or less burnout, went Green with a vengance. And some Dems loyal to the bitter end, but blind to a fault, have stuck it out in the party, hoping to enact "change from within", or are just stuck in a lifelong rut. But more and more people are waking up, and either going Green or dropping out.

So it is no wonder the Dems are losing left and right. It isn't BBV or the "Southern Strategy" or the Greens that killed the Democratic Party, they're killing themselves, albeit a death of a thousand cuts, it is a death none the less. And while there is still time and hope for the venerable old party to change directions and mend the error of it's ways, the prospects are not good, judging by the actions of it's members, and the rhetoric of it's mouthpieces.

So goes the Democratic party, not with a bang, but a whimper, to be folded and absorbed into that great one party system, the Republicrats.

But not all hope is lost, for once all of the dead wood and debris is cleared away, there is the possibility that something Green and vital and vibrant will rise to take the Dems place. Then, and only then will we emerge from this long national nightmare.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. What Polls

All the polls suggest that the American political attitudes could be plotted on a bell curve that tilts slighlly to the right...

According to the latest Harris poll which has been linked here many times:

18% of Americans identify themselves as liberal

40% of Americans identify themselves as moderate

30 % of Americans identify themselves as conservative


Even if you accept the fact that folks shun the liberal label I don't see any evidence that there is a "Green" majority waiting to be tapped...