BBV: Wisconsin state legislators introduce bill to ban DRE's

[sybylla]

http://www.thewheelerreport.com/releases/Nov03/Nov3/1103pocanvoting.pdf
From the Press Release:

Representative Mark Pocan (D-Madison) and Senator Jeff Plale (D-Milwaukee) today introduced legislation that would ban the use of touch screen electronic voting systems in the State of Wisconsin. Pocan and Plale say that the voting systems have fundamental design flaws and lack verification for recounts and other purposes potentially leading to invalid elections.

"As we move to passing the federal 'Help America Vote Act'that brings millions of dollars to our state to update our electoral processes, we believe it is equally important to make sure that we have the best and most verifiable technology used here. Touch screen voting systems have failed to prove their protections against fraud and do not leave a verifiable paper trail for recount purposes. We simply don't want to risk our reputation for fair elections in Wisconsin by using potentially faulty technology," said Pocan.

<snip>

This is an important victory in Wisconsin but a minor one if we don't contact our state reps and sens to get them on board soon.

Wisconsin DUers, time to start e-mailing and sending letters. I don't see the number of the bill on the Wisconsin Legislation website http://www.legis.state.wi.us yet and I don't know if it has been introduced in both houses. The first one to find it can post it here.

[sybylla]

1. Shameless Kick

and a note to say that I just spoke with Representative Pocan's office and the bill has no number yet. It is still on the doorstep. Should have that info by Friday.

[htuttle]

2. Thanks!

Pocan is my rep, and I'm glad he listens to his email!

:hi:

[Brian Sweat]

3. There is nothing wrong with touch screens that a paper trail wouldn't fix.

I like the touchscreens, they can eliminate the chance for voter error, but without a paper trail there is no way to be sure the thing isn't rigged. I say use a touch screen to prepare a paper ballot and then count the ballots with a seperate machine.

[sybylla]

4. I agree - but as I don't have the text of the bill before me

I can't tell you how it has been written. I suspect that it bans machines with unverifiable paper trails. But that is only an assumption at this point.

On edit: I prefer not to spend state tax dollars on machines with or without a verifiable paper trail at this point because, IMHO, the machines available at the moment aren't worth the money and headaches. Let the manufacturers come up with a better voting machine and I might change my mind. I say this as a technical writer who can't imagine explaining how to set up and run these kinds of machines to the little old ladies who man our elections in my county. You don't have to plug a piece of paper in. KISS, keep it simple.

[SharonAnn]

5. Voter Verified Paper Ballot, not paper trail. Has to be the Ballot

so that it can be the official record of the vote and be what gets recounted. Otherwise, the machine takes precedence.

And, there has to be robust auditing like: standard sampling of machines to audit, procedures for recount when results are challenged.

[Brian Sweat]

7. That's what I'm saying.

The touchscreen divice records nothing. It is only a tool for preparing a ballot. Once you have made you selections and accepted them, the touchscreen device prints out an individual paper record of your ballot. This is what gets counted. This paper ballot is then fed into a seperate machine that actually counts the votes. This process would eliminate overvotes and undervotes and prompt the voter to insure that they have voted for the correct person. The paper ballot would be printed in a special font that could be read by people and the counting machine.

[Eloriel]

9. You were doing just fine,

until you got to the part about yet another machine to count the votes. (More software that won't, probably, be properly examined during certification and could contain errors or malicious code.)

Simplify, not make more complex.

Eloriel

[Brian Sweat]

15. It's just as easy for people to miscount the votes as it is for computers.

[eyesroll]

6. Most WI precincts already have decent voting systems

In mine, it's a paper ballot. You "connect the dots" next to the candidate you want to vote for with a pen. There's really no way to mistake one set of dots as belonging to the wrong candidate. No hanging chad. No butterfly ballots. I suppose some people will still mess it up, but I don't thing there's any completely fool-proof voting method. (Even touch screens. Ever stand behind someone at the ATM, who stood there fumbling for several minutes?)

You then put your ballot in a scanning machine, it beeps, and records your votes (but still has the paper trail).
If you double vote, the machine spits out the ballot and you have to get another one.

[htuttle]

8. That's right!

Unlike in Florida, in Wisconsin we set the machines to reject bad ballots on the spot.

[sybylla]

10. Unless you're in poor, rural counties like mine

My ballot goes into a box and is counted, like all the ballots that are cast in my county, in the County Clerk's office on election night.

But at least we have a paper ballot.

[shance]

11. Awesome News! The machines are the core problem and

have no place in the voting process.

Thanks for the update!

[RetroLounge]

12. Good job on this Bill!

Wisconsin voting (at least where I vote) is paper ballots and very easy and clear on how to vote.

We do not need these BBV's in Wisconsin.

Whatyabet the Repugs in Madison try to vote this down.

[ElementaryPenguin]

13. FANTASTIC!! Perhaps we have to fight this battle state by state!!

Since the Dems in Washington don't seem up to making this fight - and the fascist Repukes are evidently for the most part on board with the Bush Cabal on this and most everything - no matter how illegal or outrageous!

[lysergik]

14. Ok, but too severe?

Sure there are problems with DRE's. It's great too see two lawmakers that are motivated enough and aware of this subject to ensure the accuracy of voting in their state.

But! It seems a little severe from reading the above snippet. Sure, DRE's cause problems, but why not put a moratorium on these devices until there is one in the marketplace that can be verified as being both accurate and provide a Voter Verified Paper Ballot all while being user friendly and aid multi-lingual and/or handicapped folks record their votes accurately.

[sybylla]

16. I would have a problem with a moratorium

Once it expires, the decision is once again left up to the elected SOS and the state elections board. A ban is better in that before lawmakers will expend the energy and political capital to remove it, the manufacturers and their DRE's will have to have demonstrated that they function as close to perfectly as possible and when they fail, there is a suitable back up as well as an easily verifiable paper ballot. This bill, as its writers claim, is only to prevent Wisconsin from becoming a guinea pig for the voting machine industry.

This is politics. A ban is never forever. Besides, neither you nor I have a copy of the text of the bill before us at this moment. Perhaps there are stipulations or a sunset provision not mentioned in the press release.

[Bushfire]

17. Optical Scan cannot blindly be trusted, remember San Luis Obispo?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/11/tech/printable572704.shtml

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0309/S00042.htm

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0309/S00067.htm

http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/6739336.htm

http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/964736.asp?0cv=tb10 (DEAD Link...)

Optical Scan machines may be connected by modem to the manufacturer hqtrs such was the case in San Luis Obispo. Quite possibly it might be a wireless modem these days. California recently had precints had their results phoned in by modem before they printed the precint results, state law violation. I hope to find if WI has such a law on the books for precints to print, and display results prior sending to the central computer. Increased audits are also the way to go if we are to place "faith" into BBV machines. I know my county uses ES&S Optech Eagle machines which only 4 people have the password (3 county election officials, and 1 ES&S official). I'm sure there is a good reason for ES&S to have the password right?

[Bushfire]

18. BBV to be discussed on WPR Wednesday

thanks to dragonlady for posting

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=651022