We don't talk about Gephardt here much. Why?

[Armstead]

The boosterism and flame wars on DU always seems to revolve artound certain candidates -- Dean, Clark, Kerry, Kucinich mainly.

However, Gephardt is frequently off the DU radar screen. I'm just wondering why?

I think a lot of poeple (myself included) initially have dismissed him for a coupe of basic reasons. Iraq War; his association with Democratic losses and the basic idea that he is just a tired old hack (even though he is not really that old).

But I'm starting to take anotehr look at him. I've always liked him, and among modern Democrats he's probably as close to a classic working-class liberal as we have in these races, both personally and in his policies. And although he sometimes has seemed like a buffoon, I've also seen him in speeches and interviews where he is sharp but likable and totally on target.

I'm now starting to wonder whether he may really be what we need. I still have problems with him. I totally disagree with his stance on Iraq. But I also think that he was completly principled in his reasons for it. And politically it may turn out to be a plus, as long as he continues to challenge Bush's handling of it.

I dunno. What do otehrs think? Have you totrally written him off, or do you think he is more viable than he's gotten credit for here?

[realFedUp]

1. I guess I'm not willing to settle this early....

[Jacobin]

2. WarMonger

Fork him.

[bmbmd]

3. I agree.

I never saw myself getting excited about RG, but he was fabulous on Hardball last night. I thought he looked wise, seasoned, and presidential. He demonstrated command of the facts, a clear vision for the future, a quick and lively sense of humor, and the ability to work with others. He is worth another look.

[Armstead]

6. His best line....

Said to Matthews last night, after telling how he met with Bush weekly as House leader. "If you had to meet weekly with Bush, you'd be running for president too."

[Jivenwail]

13. Maybe, but...

He still can't explain away his standing side-by-side with whistle ass in the Rose Garden when they passed the war resolution. I just can't forgive that and I can't forget it, either. Gep has not stood tall for democratic ideals under this misadministration when - and until - he decided to run. JMHO, he's unelectable and he is not the right one to run against the whistle ass gang.

[bmbmd]

20. His stance with Whistle-ass

was based on misdirected patriotism, and a fervent hope that Bush was the right man for the job. Most of us on DU were dead set against GW from the get-go, and those of us from Texas knew that he was not up to the task. With ninety per cent approval, Bush had no reason to like to the congressional leadership. The rest of the world now knows what we suspected on 9/11-that Bush is a lightweight, and incompetent liar, and a tool for the "military-industrial complex".
Last night, Gep seemed to indicate that he had been misled.

[bmbmd]

21. His stance with Whistle-ass

was based on misdirected patriotism, and a fervent hope that Bush was the right man for the job. Most of us on DU were dead set against GW from the get-go, and those of us from Texas knew that he was not up to the task. With ninety per cent approval, Bush had no reason to like to the congressional leadership. The rest of the world now knows what we suspected on 9/11-that Bush is a lightweight, and incompetent liar, and a tool for the "military-industrial complex".
Last night, Gep seemed to indicate that he had been misled.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

14. LOL.... Here's my Gephardt read:

Hard to top that line. May be the line of the year (2003)

I like a lot about Gep but I believe he's too easily pinned as an overly liberal special interest Dem and I don't know that a House Rep. has ever been elected prez. His Rose Garden stand was a good play to the center, but I don't know what foreign policy creds he brings to counter Bush with.
The fact he broke down and cried in private in front of a few staff monments after he withdrew in '88 really turned me off to him. It just doesn't seem very presidential IMHO, but no doubt others will feel differently.

Otherwise Gep has seasoned very well, like a very good wine.

[Flaming Meaux]

10. Ditto here.

Although I think he'd make a decent President, as long as the GOP controls Congress, they'd shred him. He's too willing to compromise when his opposition is not, and that drives me nuts. Case in point is his support for Iraq.

I listen to him, and generally agree with what he's saying, and I like him, but he doesn't 'grab' me. Given a choice between him and, say, Wesley Clark, a man I know little about compared to Gephardt, and I'll choose the General any day because I get the impression Wes believes in what he's saying.

Send that man to Dale Carnegie ASAP, and get him James Gandolfini's dialog coach while he's at it. He needs rhetorical PUNCH; without it, he's shooting tanks with a peashooter.

[bearfartinthewoods]

17. he really really was great, wasn't he

i got goosebumps twice. it made me remember how he used to be before he got muzzled in a leadership sole.

[MuseRider]

4. He is not my favorite

or even close but this campaign he looks much better than I have ever seen him. I could vote for him, don't really want to for the same reasons you have stated and others, but he has never seemed to me like a real player to me until now. Some things I do like about him but like others, I have a difficult time getting the picture of him in the Rose Garden with Bush* out of my mind.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

5. Gephardt is great

"he's probably as close to a classic working-class liberal as we have in these races"

How about, "Gephardt is a classic working-class liberal" and I'm glad he's in the race, and unlike Dean or Kerry, I wouldn't have to hold my nose to vote for Gep.

[NewJeffCT]

7. my impression

Is that he is the Democratic version of Bob Dole in '96 - old & washed up.

[Cocoa]

27. I think Dole was a good republican candidate

I think Dole and Gephardt do have some good personal qualities in common, though their politics differ widely. And I think age can be a benefit for presidents.

[NewJeffCT]

30. true

but, the impression was that Dole was old & washed up - a rehash of the Ford years from the 70s, just like Gephardt, who first threw his hat in the ring in 1988.

[Cocoa]

31. please challenge that impression of Gephardt

that happens to be the RNC line on him.

Go to the RNC Research website, it's interesting to see their take on each candidate. For Gephardt it's "Tried, tested and rejected."

Any time I hear a characterization that so closely matches the RNC propaganda, I urge people to seriously challenge it.

[Rose Siding]

8. He'd be better than Bush

I don't have an impression of him as being strong...or powerful or charismatic- whatever that "thing" is that indicates leadership. IMO, only, of course.

This article covers some of his background. (It's unflattering from a dem pov, but indicates growth, I suppose)

The evolution of Richard Gephardt

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/special/gephardt.nsf/0/DA1ED8BF2C9D33C486256D5A0005DD3C?OpenDocument

snip>



The conclusions reached by Gephardt today on a host of policy issues would have been anathema to the young congressman who arrived from St. Louis in 1977 and quickly made his mark on Capitol Hill.

A news release in August 1981 from Gephardt's Washington office captures the distance he has traveled since. "President's position on Abortion, Busing, School Prayer Criticized," the headline said - in a release that reproached then-President Ronald Reagan for not doing enough to end abortion, to block school busing and to promote prayer in school.

The year before, in a graduation speech at Lutheran High School South, Gephardt had said: "The old Puritan values are going down the drain. Self-denial for family and the future, conformity to accepted standards, hard work as a virtue in its own right - all are trickling away."

Gephardt was an unabashed abortion critic and a social conservative looking for openings to persuade others. He voted early in his career against extending the deadline to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment to the Constitution and for prohibitions on government-backed legal assistance in gay rights cases.

[Hep]

9. Doesn't deserve our attention

We'll vote for him if he wins, but I'm not giving him any time.

[RichM]

11. It depends on what you mean by "viable." If this means, "Does he have

any chance at winning the nomination, then election," I'd say he has some chance - more than you'd guess just by reading DU. But if it means "Is he someone that has the right vision for this time in our history," my personal opinion is 'No.' I don't think it's possible to be wrong on Iraq, and still qualify as having "the right vision."

I do see what's appealing about him. His working-class background & his earnestness are good likeable qualities.

But "Iraq" is not just the country of Iraq. It's the whole issue of the US role in the world - everything from the lies of our media to the role of the MIC in our economy. If you're way wrong on that - as Gephardt is - having good positions on labor & taxes isn't enough to counterbalance it.

OTOH: I don't think he's any worse than the other "1st tier" guys. IMO, the differences among them are mostly questions of style, not substance. (IOW: they're all roughly equally terrible.)

[bearfartinthewoods]

18. if he wins in Iowa he will be the leading contender

and the last i heard, he was tied 50/50 with Dean in Iowa.

[Hawkeye-X]

23. He's also losing support -- fast.

Gephardt will not win Iowa. Probably come 2nd or 3rd. But after then he's roadkill.

Hawkeye-X

[Armstead]

19. The difference....

I know what you're saying Rich, and agree to an extent.

But unlike the "centrist" Democratic candidates, Gephardt is the one I have the least "ewwwww" sense about. He feels more like a moderate than a centrist (the difference being that in a conflict between public interest and corporations, he would be more likely to side with the people that a corporate centrist).

I totally disagreed with him about Iraq. But I do at least credit him with having the guts to defend his position, unlike flip-flop Kerry. I also do think it's possible to seperate Iraq from overall foreign policy. In the longer view (pre-Bush) here are circumstances there that seperate it from other foreign adventures.

[angee_is_mad]

12. After Dean's faux pas

I am seriously looking at him.

[Racenut20]

15. He can carry New Mexico & Missouri. The New Englanders cannot

[Hawkeye-X]

24. Dean is leading in New Mexico

Missouri - maybe 2nd, but that's the only state that Geppy will carry.

Hawkeye-X

[Mike_from_NoVa]

16. too easily punked by rethugs (n/t)

[in_cog_ni_to]

22. I would vote for Gephardt

if he were the nominee. However, the day he stood next to the shrub in the Rose Garden in support of the war was the day I decided he would never get a penny of MY money and he won't get my vote in the primary. ANY candidate that voted for the war will not get my vote in the primary. Period.

[sendero]

25. we could do worse...

... but we could do a lot better also. It is not just a person's policies and beliefs that makes him or her a good candidate. It is their ability to get others to fall in line and vote for the legislation needed to make it happen.

Dick just doesn't impress me as a man who can carry a big stick. He's not a tough, powerful leader.

[sandnsea]

26. Great on Hardball

I am liking him more and more. I always saw him as too soft to take on Bush & Rove. But after last night, maybe not. If he would unequivocally link repealing the tax cuts with his health care plan, I would be more supportive.

[Cocoa]

28. his style doesn't fit with DU

he doesn't have a lot of flash. The thing he got the most attention for was his "miserable failure" line, and that seemed to be a little bit out of character for him.

I think his message is very strong, and a very good match against Bush, but some people could see it as kind of boring.

[eissa]

29. I'm not impressed at all

Of course I would still vote for him if he were the nominee, but he does nothing for me. He appears to try too hard; I get the feeling that even he doesn't believe in a lot of what he's saying. The passion is just not there. And the gangbang that he and Kerry are carrying on against Dean really makes me :mad:

[xray s]

32. I think his message is mixed

He calls Bush a "miserable failure" but supports his war. So, does that mean he is supporting a miserable failure? :shrug:

[jayfish]

33. Dick Gephardt And Every Member of Congress...

voted to hand over one of the most important constitutional powers they are blessed (or cursed) with to another branch of government. The power to declare war. What else would he be wiling to give up for the sake of political expediency? Make no mistake DU'ers the Democrats who voted for the resolution did so in the same vain attempt to gain political favor (votes)as GW*. I like him on almost everything he stands for and I will vote for him in the general election if he is the nominee, but because of this one thing I’m not even paying attention to him during the primaries.

Jay

[lovedems]

34. He is a business as usual dem IMHO

I think he has been soft on this administration for the past 3 years when he should have stood up to them. Sometimes doing what's right isn't always popular (would that explain Ted Kennedy's love/hate relationship with the public?) but for him and Lieberman to support this war went to far in my book. I know the argument can be made that everyone was misled but he was in a leadership position and should have asked more questions. I am looking for a change and I see many other candidates more capable of bringing about change than business as usual Gep. I would vote for him if he got the nomination, he is not my first or second choice though.

[depakid]

35. Because Dick's a loser, has been political hack

He lost the House to the likes of Gingrich and his ridiculous "contract on America," and continually let him moralize and take the high ground, even though he served his wife (his first one, I think) divource papers while she was in a hospital bed fighting for her life with breast cancer. One too many times he's voted whichever way the wind blew (when he bothed to vote) and now he's moaning and shouting about the very things he voted for or lets happen.

The man's a poster child of insincerity, and frankly I'll be glad when he's off the scene (or rather, behind the scenes) making money through his political connections.

[E Pluribus Unum]

36. I have never looked at Gephardt as presidential

material. He just does not excite people very much.
He's great in the House but he will not go farther. Even big labor, the group he has supported the most, has not endorsed him. Nope, he's not going to be the nominee.