Regarding John Galt.

[Fall_No_Further]

For those of you who have read Atlas Shrugged (and if you haven't, it's a frightening portrait of what arch-capitalists think of government), would you actually WANT a John Galt in the world? What are your opinions of him? I'm having a discussion with a friend, and she's saying that Roark (from Fountainhead) and Galt are just the type of people the world needs. How do I drive this notion out of her head?

[Dogmudgeon]

1. Tell her "John Galt got student loans"

That ought to do it.

--bkl

[foo_bar]

2. who is John Galt?

sorry.

[wtmusic]

3. That's the last interesting part of a book

that should have been titled, "Reader Shrugged".

[DUreader]

6. Grover Norquist is John Galt

[Fall_No_Further]

7. I'm afraid I don't get it.

Can you clear that up for me?

[newyawker99]

9. Hi Fall_No_Further!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[salin]

24. I don't know John Galt... but

given context of Rand... I would guess the reference to Norquist would relate to his public sentiment that he would like to shrink the government (and its spending) so small that would could pick it up and drown it in the bathtub.

[poskonig]

20. LOL@ Grover Norquist!

:yourock:

[Brian Sweat]

8. Booooooooooooooooo

Worst joke ever.

[Cocoa]

4. Galt is now under investigation in the mutual fund scandal

that evil Eliot Spitzer is preventing Galt's goodness from flourishing.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

14. bwa ha ha

"Eliot Spitzer is preventing Galt's goodness from flourishing"

I just nearly spit out my coffee! :)

[MrBenchley]

5. As an aside

Ayn Rand's idiotic and tedious book ends with John Galt blessing the new America by making the sign of the dollar "$" in the air.

Go over to a mirror and try that for yourself and see how ridiculous that looks...

[denverbill]

10. Sure, of course. John Galt's are the movers and shakers.

The true innovators and producers.

The problem is, the are 10,000,000 people who think they are John Galt out there who are actually the leaches.

What the hell did Ken Lay ever produce? How about Michael Milken? Bill Gates was a sort of John Galt when he started out, but he turned into just another capitalistic hack who beat the competition by using dubious business tactics rather than by building a better mousetrap.

George Bush probably considers himself a John Galt. He was a CEO of two oil companies, then a baseball owner. But what the fuck did he actually create? Nothing. He created an oil company by borrowing money from daddy's friends. They didn't find oil, but conveniently, were bought out by another oil company, which coincidentally, was also owned by his daddy's friends.

Then, because Daddy was President, he was offered a sweetheart deal. For $1 million, he could get a 10% stake in the Texas Rangers, which was worth $10 million. He illegally sold his shares in the oil company right before it announced bad news, and bought in. The Rangers then made a low ball offer on some sweet real estate. When the owners refused, Bush had the land condemned by the state. Because they condemend WAY WAY more land than they needed, they made MILLIONS more by building restaurants, offices, and lofts around the ballpark while the original landowners got SHIT. The state was sued by the landowners for illegally condemning their land, and the landowners won. Bush was then sued by the state, and ordered to repay millions in illegal profits. He has yet to comply with the order.

THERE'S John Galt in action today. 10,000,000 Republican shitheads who think they are John Galt, stealing taxpayer money to build private fortunes and then whining about having to pay taxes.

[mikehiggins]

15. Actually, the scariest thing about Bush to me

is how closely he tracks the last President in Atlas Shrugged. The more I learn about him, the scarier he gets.

That a man like that could be in the position he is calls into question the whole concept of democracy and the vote.

[sendero]

16. nice....

I like your analysis and agree with it.

If today's "captains of industry" were half as interested in creating a better product for a lower price as they are in simply doing an end run around having to compete at all, they they'd be worthy of respect.

Sadly, this not the case, but lots of these malignant fools delude themselves into believing they are, and the subsequent delusion that they are worthy of multi-million dollar salaries follows.

[msmcghee]

17. Good post denverbill. n/t

[Armstead]

19. You just wrote the Cliff Notes version of it

Perfect and concise summary of why the "self made man" image of GW bugs so many people.

[denverbill]

22. Thanks Armstead, and all.

The sad thing is that the entire Bush family has almost no means of support that isn't connected to milking govt money.

GHWB was a pilot, then worked in the oil business, but was rumored to be in the CIA that whole time, then was in Congress, the CIA, VP, and Prez, and now sits on his fat ass collecting his govt pension, while sitting on corporate boards milking govt military contracts at Carlyle.

Brother Neil cost taxpayers $1 billion by bankrupting an S&L, now he sells teaching software to public schools.

Jeb took out an SBA loan to start a business and defaulted on the loan when the business went under, costing the govt millions. Now he's milking Floridians tax dollars as governor.

The whole damned family whines continually about taxes being too high. Well, shit, if we'd cut the Bush family off, we could probably cut taxes 50% and have enough left over to pay for National Health Care.

[kodi]

11. unless one is born fully grown each of us is obliged to others for much

dimissing the responsibilities for the debt one has to pay to society for their protection as infants and children is ignorant nonsense.

even john galt did not make his own shoes that let him walk around his little mountain retreat on that plateau.

[mikehiggins]

12. Roark and Galt

are extremist representations of Rand's philosophies, and would have no place at all in this world.

Just as the ideal socialistic world would be one in which everyone lived in peace and enlightenment, Rand's world would be one in which absolute freedom AND honesty prevailed. Both points of view tend to ignore or downplay the prevalence of simple, widespread greed. Thus, socialist experiments tend to run aground of men's desires to have more than the next guy, and Rand's "utopia" wouldn't survive Ken Lay or that guy from TYCO or any number of lesser people who are "just trying to get by" and willing to do whatever it takes to get it.

Someone who thinks Roark or Galt are "just the type of people the world needs" has a very idealistic and romantic view of reality, one that is destined to change over time.

Compromise and accomodation are the keys to a happy life, whether in politics, business or personal relationships. Galt and Roark are the exact opposites of those qualities. Perhaps that is why Roark was a rapist and Galt a fugutive outlaw.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

13. Yes, we need egotistical speed addicts with an inflated self-opinion

running the world - yeah, that's the ticket!

[Garage Queen]

18. Can't help you.

The book was such a wretched read that I was never able to force myself to finish it. Though, I did managed to get through about 75% of "The Fountainhead" before giving up.

[poskonig]

21. There is no such thing as John Galt.

*All* humans have imperfections.

I repeat, nobody is perfect, i.e., God.

When human beings innovate technologically, scientifically, artistically, et cetera, it is a great thing. But personalities I have met in all of these fields have been varied -- some people are melancholic, others are upbeat, some are egotists, others are quite generous, et cetera. Not every person who is selfish is great at what they do, and not every person who is great at what they do is selfish.

If you think about it, there are only two characters in Rand's novels -- the superman and the moocher/leech. This doesn't correspond to the real world at all.

[Tansy_Gold]

23. Atlas Shrugged is science fiction as well as political . . .

. . . .polemics.

John Galt could never have done what he did -- nor, for that matter, could Hank Rearden -- except that he discovered the undiscoverable. For Rearden it was his magic metal, for Galt it was turning static electricity into alternating current.

Galt's Gulch was protected by a totally science fiction screen of invisibility -- Hmmm, maybe Gene Rodenberry read Atlas Shrugged before creating Star Trek? -- or he and the strikers would have been found instantly.

Rand left out a lot of "reality" when she wrote Atlas Shrugged, including a lot of basic human nature. Furthermore, she was willing to sacrifice a lot of good, honest, hard-working, "right"-thinking folks, like Eddie Willers, for the sake of her heroes.

Rand was a nut-case, and a misogynist. She was incredibly cruel and viciously self-centered. She wrote very little after Atlas Shrugged, and I don't believe any of it was fiction. Atlas essentially burned her out.

The book is actually well worth reading. It's a primer on libertarian/capitalist/monopolist thinking, and I think it provides an excellent insight into why people believe the right wing mantra.

But then I'm weird, and I'm also

Tansy Gold