How Big Will the Dean/Clark Landslide Be? How Many States Will They Take?

[David Zephyr]

With the growing trend of union after union now lining up to support Governor Dean who also now is either tied for first place or in first place in all polling in the first three contests next year, who also is now raising more money than all the other eight candidates combined, who has an unprecedented 500,000 signed-up network of volunteers in all 50 states and nearly 1,000 cities, it is time for not only his supporters, but all the fine people who are committed to other candidates to begin contemplate the Dean candidacy against George W. Bush next Fall. And, at the same time, to consider a Dean / Clark ticket that I believe will present to the American people a fresh, bold and credible new face to the Democratic Party. This is your dream ticket, folks.

I can't help but believe that Dean and Clark will sweep all but the most conservative states in a landslide of popular votes next November. The Doctor and the General will articulate domestic and foreign affairs in terms that the American people will understand and appreciate. They will stand up and punch for us. They will not let Bush and his criminal cohorts off the hook on anything. This is the team that Karl Rove truly fears the most.

I dare say that this dynamic and complimenting team will gobble up all the battleground states in the rust belt, win in all key Midwestern states, obviously sweep New England, the Mid-Atlantic and the West Coast, and more importantly take Arkansas, Louisiana, Missouri, West Virginia and Florida. And if the momentum is great enough, Dean and Clark will also take Tennessee, Kentucky and just possibly South Carolina.

Do we want to win? This is the team to make it happen.

[trotsky]

1. I like how you think!

Nice to see such a positive, go-get-'em attitude around here - there's been way too much moping and wailing lately.

Dean and Clark are my two favorite candidates. Teaming them up, it doesn't get any better than that.

[David Zephyr]

57. It's the Kick Ass Team for the New Century!

As always, we seem to agree, Trotsky!

[eissa]

2. It will be BIG!

I just posted a message in another post about this. I mentioned that my boss is a republican and he fears nothing more than a Dean/Clark ticket because the combination of Dean's domestic experience with Clark's military/foreign policy background would be absolutely unbeatable.

[rucky]

7. Your boss should be thrilled

to have two great men like that in the White House. What does he think? We'll all send the GOP to gitmo or something?

[David Zephyr]

59. He Should Be Thrilled.

Love your Union Logo! :hi:

[stinkeefresh]

14. agree, but one small concern

How will their campaigns merge? Clark's campaign is chock full of agressive, experienced Clinton campaign staffers. Dean's is, well, not. Could all those pros really get in line behind Trippi's unconventional (and highly successful) "open source" style?

I think they can and must. Because this is the ticket we've always dreamt about.

As long as we get vocal about Diebold, we are headed toward a landslide.

[David Zephyr]

60. Good Question: Let's All Begin Talking It Up. This is a First Step.

Unity! :thumbsup:

[Skwmom]

52. Dean's domestic experience?

Running a state smaller than many cities?

[LuCifer]

55. And he ran it DAMN GOOD!

More than can be said about "President" Dumbya's piss poor job of making Texas even more dinosaur primative (if anyone hasn't read "Shrub" by Molly Ivans & Lou Dubose, do so immediately!) same goes to his supreme asshole brother Jeb here in FloriDUH.

Lu Cifer

[David Zephyr]

61. Damn Right.

:thumbsup:

Unity!

[CWebster]

106. ignore her

she is from the Billy club of Dean-hating rather than Clark supporting.

They are on a mission....Wonder if it pays well. ;-)

[David Zephyr]

58. Tell Your Boss to Start Sweating, Eissa!

"Absolutely unbeatable." :thumbsup:

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

3. not big at all

once DIEBOLD 'counts' the votes for us

something desperately needs to be done. why isn't our party addressing this? do we want Bush to have an improbable pseudo-'Dewey Defeats Truman' moment next November?

[Military Brat]

47. We must INSIST on exit polls

Remember how they stopped the exit polls in the 2000 election? Well, let's not let it happen in 2004. If bush is going down in flames in the exit polls, then Diebold and BFEE are going to have a helluva time trying to fool us again.

[David Zephyr]

49. I Agree.

We will need poll watchers and national exit polls.

See my post #33 to the always brilliant and DU's very own Elementary Penguin.

[Malva Zebrina]

50. I agree

there must be some other non involved source to compare to. We have to insure that we will never ever let a coup happen again. We must insure that all of the Katherine Harris' bitches do not have a thing to do with the elections and any of it's controversies. They must be exposed before they can do the damage. And above all--never ever l et a Bush get near anything having to do with the US government. I don't care if it is a Bush claiming to be a Democrat--never , ever let another stupid ignorant uninformed spoiled brat of a Bush come anywhere near the government of this country from now on.

[frank frankly]

4. Please let this happen

Please!

[David Zephyr]

64. Yes!

You have the right attitude, Frank Frankly! :hi:

[robsul82]

5. Dean + Clark = Win!

Easy! :)

Later.

RJS

[SammyWinstonJack]

36. Or Clark+Dean=Win!

Either way, I would be happy. :bounce: :-) :party:

[robsul82]

38. Yeah yeah yeah...

;)

Later.

RJS

[David Zephyr]

67. They Will Be Together.

And it will be the most lethal team the GOP has ever faced.

[David Zephyr]

65. Dean + Clark = Win Big!

:thumbsup:

[robsul82]

85. As was said in The Mighty Ducks...

"It's not worth winning if you can't win big!"

Not 100% applicable, but, lol.

Later.

RJS

[David Zephyr]

88. Oh Yeah!

:thumbup:

[GreenArrow]

6. Kerry and Clark will win by

about 6 or 7 points.

[KaraokeKarlton]

22. Kerry will be peddling ketchup in 2005

n/t

[robsul82]

23. That sounds like...

...a really funny joke I'm just not getting. lol

Later.

RJS

[KaraokeKarlton]

34. It was my way of saying that I think he is going to lose

He's not going to get the nomination and I think he's going to lose his other job too because of his war vote. Then he'd most likely go to work for his wife, the Heinz ketchup heiress. I was being "snarky".

[robsul82]

51. Oh, the Heinz thing...

...duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, lol.

Later.

RJS

[David Zephyr]

26. John Kerry is a Great American and a Great Democrat.

And has a great legacy as well.

[mitchum]

77. thank you David Zephyr....

YOU are a gentleman

[David Zephyr]

81. No Kerry Bashing Allowed.

Not in my thread! Thanks Mitchum of Thunder Road.

:hi:

[quaker bill]

104. that would be Clark and Kerry

[montanacowboy]

8. Amen to that!!

They are both perfect halves of a complete whole - there's nothing better! The American people cannot lose with these two fine men who have the people's well being at heart - and who can knock that smirking idiot back to Crawfish, or is it Crawdad, ? whatever

[David Zephyr]

56. Good to Meet You Here, Montanacowboy!

"knock that smirking idiot back to Crawfish..." Yeah, baby. :hi:

[OKNancy]

9. Clark would never be vice president under Dean

I doubt Dean would chose him either.

[Bread and Circus]

16. I think Clark would serve under Dean...

He knows that him being on the ticket would be
good for the Country.

Clark is doing this for the country, not himself.

[JNelson6563]

25. I agree

I know Clark was persuaded to make this run, though I doubt we agree on just who did the most persuading, and I would believe that what sold him was the good of the country.

Besides, he's young and capable, he could step in for his own eight year tour after Dean's eight. :-)

I do believe this ticket would sweep the swing vote and bring more than a few disenfranchised moderate Rs along. I know, I signed up two of them as new Dems for my local party last night at the Dean meet-up. Dean's bringing them to the table and Clark will have the same pull.

From an analytical view this ticket cannot lose.

To winning! :toast:

Julie

[David Zephyr]

71. As You Say: "This Ticket Cannot Lose".

:toast: To winning.

[OKNancy]

29. You gave the reasons yourself

here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=659750#665002

Clark should be at the top of the ticket because there is no way Dean could even come close to what is in this speech. He has zero foreign policy experience.

[David Zephyr]

68. Listen to the FamilyDoctor.

I agree. That's just the sort of person Clark is. He'll do it for the country. I believe that.

[Justice]

24. Dean Will Want Clark

Because Dean is a smart man

[David Zephyr]

76. Exactly.

Howard Dean, if he is as smart as I believe him to be, will "want Clark" as you say, Justice.

Let's encourage this.

[liberalmuse]

10. Exactly what I thought...

when I signed on here and saw yet more union endorsments. Dean is our next President. :)

[David Zephyr]

72. Yep.

This is the team to make GWB sleepless in Crawford.

[Rowdyboy]

11. I'd love to see that team

though we might argue about the order...

[caledesi]

18. Good one RB! nt

[David Zephyr]

48. That's What Makes You Rowdy, Rowdyboy.

:hi:

[Skwmom]

53. Sorry I can't share your sentiments.

If Dean is the nominee, Rove and Co. will destroy Dean in part by just using the truth against him. Once they get finished exposing Dean for the lying phony that he is the Democrats will have lost any claim to moral authority or anything else.

[CWebster]

107. maybe they could count on the likes of you

to broadcast the "truth". After all, you seem more than willing.

[Closer]

12. I hate to burst your bubble

And while I think Dean/Clark would be a strong ticket, I can all but GUARANTEE you that Dean will choose Graham as his running mate. That's the gossip from insiders.

Plus, when you think about it, it totally makes sense. Dean wants a southerner, someone with Washington establishment ties, someone who voted against the war, and someone who could be President (ie, name recognition). Graham (though he's not the most exciting guy in the world) fits this bill more than anyone. Add to that the Florida connection and voila!

Like I said, this might not be everyone's first pick, but it WILL be the ticket in '04. I promise you.

[liberalmuse]

13. That's fine by me!

Dean/Clark would be a dream ticket, but I'd love to see a Dean/Kucinich, Dean/Kerry or a Dean/Graham. I'd really love to see a Dean/Braun ticket. I don't care. This is great news, because with Dean's support growing, there is at least some real hope now that we can oust Bush.

On edit: Spelled a name wrong.

[stinkeefresh]

15. Dean/Braun

I would love this. I love her.

Graham you say? Ok. I just worry about eight years later... we will have to run the veep if he wants it. By that time Clark would have so much executive experience, he would be a lock. Dean/Clark ticket gets us 16 years, in my opinion.

[robsul82]

17. Having a Dean/Braun ticket would lead to...

...a repeat of the Al/Tipper moment at the convention, hehehe. Quite possible considering how much they seemingly love each other. ;)

Later.

RJS

[Beaker]

20. you obviously aren't from illinois

We've already been tremendously disappointed once by CMB, and realize that she doesn't deserve to be standing on that stage.
If you piss away a Senate seat, tell me again how that qualifies you to the office of President?? :crazy:

[David Zephyr]

80. 16 Years!

Dean and Clark. This is how to drive the Republican rats into the sea.

I love how that sounds, Stinkeefresh! And I love and respect Carol Mosely-Braun, too.

[pruner]

105. this has been my sig line for the past month or so

:puffpiece:

[Larkspur]

19. I could go for a Graham VP, but wonder about his health

and if he'd be up to the task of campaigning against the viscious Bush-Rove machine. And I was also thinking about the Prez chances after Dean's 2 term. Would Graham be a VP choice to help get Dean elected in 2004 and then in 2008, he'd bow out for someone, like Gov Bill Richardson of New Mexico?

I'd personally like Bill Richardson, Gov of New Mexico, but understand that Graham would check Jeb Bush to a certain degree in Florida in 2004 and would help Dean with offsetting Bush in the rest of the South.

[robsul82]

21. Really, I'd worry...

...about Graham folding against the Rove machine. He might even have a heart attack and die.

Later.

RJS

[dansolo]

69. Dean/Clark and Dean/Graham

Both would be great, though I do think that Dean/Clark could potentially have broader appeal for the general public.

[David Zephyr]

74. "Broader Appeal " is What They Have.

Landslide.

[mzmolly]

27. We need to have an alliance of supporters from both camps suggesting this?

I know not everyone would go for it, perhaps a vote is in order?

[robsul82]

28. There's a Yahoo! group...

...called "deanandclark" that I'm on.

Later.

RJS

[childslibrarian]

30. Give it a break!

Clark/Dean is the ticket. Or Dean/Clark. If either of these candidates is really running for the good of this country, not for their own egos, they will see that this is the way to beat the Repubs.....
Let me add, The issues this time around are way too serious for egos to get in the way...

[ElementaryPenguin]

31. Minus DIEbold - Clark/Dean could win largest landslide in history!

I firmly believe that, which is what makes the fact that it may very well not happen due to Repuke fraud so fucking infuriating!!

[childslibrarian]

32. You said it!!

Elementary penguin!!!

[David Zephyr]

33. E.P. That's Why We Have to Have a Landslide.

Damn. You always so on the mark.

It's precisely because of not only DIEbold, but also because the Republican-controled state legislatures are poised to deliver their own set of electors should the elections in their states even look close.

We need an unmistakable landslide. We need all the exit polling from all three networks and national polling organizations to publish results beyond any possible "statistical error" charges.

Folks, we need a landslide. And we need the Landslide Ticket.

[Toucano]

35. Not as big as a Clark/Dean ticket! LOL!

I just couldn't resist the reversal. :)

[David Zephyr]

37. You Clark Supporters Are Something Else.

And I admire you all. Clark has really begun to shine lately. I thought his performance in the Rock the Vote forum was his finest moment on the campaign yet.

At the same time, I also admire the supporters of all the other candidates and their loyalty, any of whom would turn this country around in a heartbeat. :thumbsup:

[xultar]

94. Thanks...Well Said!

[SiobhanClancy]

42. I hope it's that way...

I think Clark is the one who can beat Bush.

[Renew Deal]

63. Clark \whoever is a winner. Dean\whoever is not.

[robsul82]

39. A thread about Dean and Clark...

...and with VERY few exceptions, we see members of both camps coming together in peace and harmony. Amaaaaaaaaaaaaaazing, eh? ;)

Later.

RJS

[Toucano]

40. I think the eyes are finally on the prize!

It does feel nice to have the mutual respect and unity develop a little in the GD forum.

[David Zephyr]

46. We Are All Dedicated to the Same End.

And that is what unites us all.

Our unity and common purpose is also what scares the living hell out of the Republicans!

:thumbsup:

[David Zephyr]

78. Peace and Harmony.

See how intoxicating this ticket already is? ;-)

[JNelson6563]

96. yeah, too bad about the "bitter-enders"

emphasis on bitter ;-)

Julie

[tsipple]

41. 31 States

Dean-Clark would win: CA, OR, WA, HI, AZ, NV, NM, IA, MN, IL, WI, AR, LA, MO, MI, OH, KY, FL, VA, WV, DC, MD, DE, NJ, PA, NY, CT, RI, MA, VT, NH, ME.

Kentucky and Virginia are the least certain on that list.

[David Zephyr]

82. Think Higher.

There will be a bandwagon effect with this ticket. :hi:

[GOPBasher]

43. With that ticket, we just may win big enough to

overcome the cheating the Republicans will do with the Diebold machines.

[David Zephyr]

83. GOPBasher, You Know It.

We can't afford to have a close election, they would steal it.

We have to "win big enough" as you say. Dean/Clark.

[GOPBasher]

103. Yep.

:-)
By the way, I LOVE your quote! Man, how the Republicans have fallen since having one of the best even in Abe.

[RetroLounge]

44. I think Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean would give us

16 years of the White House.

The only worry I have is that I would then have to start getting along with some of you Clark guys. And we would have to work for a common goal. And we might start respecting and liking each other. And become :pals:. That might lead to civility on DU!

THE HORROR!!!

:):):):):):)

[AlinPA]

45. SC? TN? KY? FL? LA?even AR is a stretch. But those two are really

a great team. As a matter of fact they are all good except Joe Lieberman.

[tritsofme]

54. You guys are way too optimistic

This is a very divided nation, and anyone on either side who expects a landslide will be sorely disapointed.

Our biggest downfall could be our hubris, if we havent learned anything from the past few years, it must be never "misunderestimate" Bush and his political machine, that will be well oiled with $250 million.

[andym]

66. $250 million and Karl Rove go a long way

$250 million and Karl Rove go a long way.

Whosever at the top of the ticket will be smeared
relentlessly. Remember what Atwater did to
Dukakis.

They are going to make it an election of
patiotism and character.

Our candidate will be made to
look untrustworthy in the extreme,
and unpatriotic in time of war (well
Clark will be more resistant to the second
charge than the others).

Groundwork will be laid in the summer, and the
trumpets will sound in September and October, just
as happenned with Dukakis.

The only way to win is to diminish Bush's character,
by strongly challenging his veracity.

[David Zephyr]

86. Hi Andym

That's just it: The Repubicans can't make it an election on "character and patriotism" with Doctor Dean and General Clark.

[andym]

99. Patriotism and Character: ROVE vs Dean and Clark

If it's Dean/Clark,
they'll attack Dean on character:
portray him as an arrogant, unstable, hothead,
and then use every angry counter statement Dean
makes as proof. Dean will have to use humor, not
anger to counter this.

They'll also attack him on patriotism, with every Bush
criticism taken as being "against the troops" and
"weak on homeland security."

Clark as VP will blunt some of the patriotism
criticism but not all.
-----------------------------------

On Clark/Dean,
they'll have a much harder time with the patriotism
angle, but they'll still try. Here is where they'll
use the character angle: They'll start with
General Shelton's comments about character and integrity,
and then try to make him out to be General Jack Ripper from
Dr. Strangelove. Clark may be able to fight this, if he
appears very personable on lots of popular shows, especially
if he uses his sense of humor.

[Julien Sorel]

102. Who is Clark?

Such a ticket would be about one person:

Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean.


Clark would be a non-entity, just like Lloyd Bentsen was.

[David Zephyr]

84. Dean and Clark Will Unite the Divided Nation.

It's happening.

[UserJohnny1479]

62. About 70 / 30 Dem

We'll sweep the electorate in 2004 and win the popular too.

Most voters know the 2000 was stolen with illegal activity by rethugs and will vote nearly all Dem to fix it the ay it was meant to be. The rethugh were never meant to be running the country and our right to it will be returned.

[David Zephyr]

87. Hey! Welcome to the DU, UserJohnny1479.

We agree! :hi:

[bitchkitty]

70. I think you're right -

although I have had misgivings about Clark, I have put them aside, at least for now. I want us to win, and that combination would be unstoppable.

[LeftyLover]

73. What happened in the past 2 years?

I don't think there will be any landslide.

To me it seems that the country is slidding right for some reason!

Since 02 we should have had all the momentum and NOTHING happened but squandering it to Dean being our only hope!

If the trend continues we could lose some serious seats in 04!!!!

Get concerned people, it is a year away!

What is wrong with our message the past 2 years that has lead to our staggering defeats lately?

[David Zephyr]

90. Nothing Wrong With Our Message, Just Too Few in Power Stating It.

You are right in this, the people had momentum. Just remember the millions who took time to march in the streets and organize against this stupid war. But our voices were not represented in Washington, D.C. as loudly as they should have been. There were a few here and there, but the M.O. of our Party for two years was to give in to Bush for the fear of being labeled "unpatriotic". It cost us the midterms, as we all know.

The American people will respond to truth...if it is spoken.

[David Zephyr]

89. I Have Also "Put Them Aside"

That was very honest of you. I have had General Clark under a microscope for some time now and some of my earlier misgivings have been put to rest. His performance, candor and humanity during the Rock the Vote forum really came through loud and clear. This is a good man who wants to do good things for our country and who is not afraid in the least bit of Georgie Bush. :thumbsup:

[bitchkitty]

108. I watched his speech last night -

and he was quite impressive. My mother watched with me, and much to my surprise, she liked him very much and did not demand that I change the channel (she votes left, but hates politics).

[EV1Ltimm]

75. They'll take 51 states....

Puerto Rico will decide to get annexed just in time to vote.

[David Zephyr]

91. Now You Are Talking. But What About D.C.?

We can't forget D.C. either. 52 States!

[PartyPooper]

79. Dean and Clark are both mad as hatters

if they don't visit DU to see what Democrats really think!

:dunce:

:dem:

[David Zephyr]

92. May Doctor Dean and General Clark Read Your Message!

Spread the word!

[in_cog_ni_to]

93. The day Clark announced he was running

I said.."That's it! Dean/Clark ticket, the moran is FINISHED!" That team is unbeatable. You do remember that those 2 had a meeting, right? Right before Clark announced. THEN, remember when Dean was on CNN and Blitzer asked him if would like Clark as VP? Dean could not say YES fast enough! Oh, ya! Dean will pick Clark or Clark will pick Dean. They cannot lose. Will not lose! :7

[David Zephyr]

97. I Do Remember Indeed.

And let's hope they ramp up the communicating and that there are no jealous staffers who dare put obstacles between them.

[xultar]

95. BTW you're supposed to list the President First...CLARK/DEAN

[raysr]

98. Except Liberman

I wish we could have them all, wouldn't all that experience and diversity be great?

[Kazak]

101. I like that too...

That way...if Dean is as good for the country as advertised, then we could have him in charge of things for essentially 16 years.

[Kazak]

100. I have been...

(not so) secretly wishing for this ever since Clark officially entered the race. That ticket WOULD be unbeatable. We NEED that.