If the Draft Comes....How do we protect our children?

[alphafemale]

I did not raise my children to be venture capital.

Do we have any experts on C.O. status here?

Or will it take leaving the country this time?

[La_Serpiente]

1. This is part of an-email I wrote to my friends to warn them

There are more than 2000 draft boards across the nation. The draft has not been in place since June 30th, 1973. However, these draft boards stay in place in case they are needed. The people who are selected for these draft boards decide whether to send a young male
(or female, I am not sure as of now) to war. They evaluate the candidate and then decide whether to send him to war based on his physical condition. How are these candidates assigned? The military gives out quotas that these draft boards need to fill, whether it is for the Navy, Army, Marines, etc.

Who can apply for these draft boards? Any adult can apply for these draft boards. You have to be older than 18 years.

Also, during the draft in the late 1960s and early 1970s, any person could serve on it. Now, the only people who can serve on these boards are people who have had no prior military or police experience.

Why would they do this? I am not sure, but I believe that they put this in because most military and police people do not take any BS. They are the no nonsense type of people that wouldn't care about a pilondrial cyst or a cut on your arm. These civilian members are likely to allow some rich kid that daddy can afford to payoff.

Some people may disagree with me, but I feel the draft is coming. The question is not, "Will they implement the draft?" The question is, "When will they implement the draft?"

All of this information must be very daunting and shocking to you. If you are in disbelief, read these articles:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/search/s_122692.html
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2003/11/3/164417.shtml
http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/sss092203.html
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/11/03/draft/index_np.html (sorry, paid subscription only)

If you read the "salon" article (well at least the beggining of it), it stated that military historians and other analysts said that our current numbers of troops simply too small.

Here is more of that same Salon article.

According to some experts, basic math might compel the Pentagon to reconsider the draft: Of a total U.S. military force of 1.4 million people around the globe (many of them in non-combat support positions and in services like the Air Force and Navy), there are currently about 140,000 active-duty, reserve and National Guard soldiers currently deployed in Iraq -- and though Rumsfeld has been an advocate of a lean, nimble military apparatus, history suggests he needs more muscle.

"The closest parallel to the Iraq situation is the British in Northern Ireland, where you also had some people supporting the occupying army and some opposing them, and where the opponents were willing to resort to terror tactics," says Charles Peña, director of defense studies at the libertarian Cato Institute. "There the British needed a ratio of 10 soldiers per 1,000 population to restore order, and at their height, it was 20 soldiers per 1,000 population. If you transfer that to Iraq, it would mean you'd need at least 240,000 troops and maybe as many as 480,000.

"The only reason you aren't hearing these kinds of numbers discussed by the White House and the Defense Department right now," Peña adds, "is that you couldn't come up with them without a return to the draft, and they don't want to talk about that."

The Pentagon has already had to double the deployment periods of some units, call up more reserves and extend tours of duty by a year -- all highly unpopular moves. Meanwhile, the recent spate of deadly bombings in Baghdad, Falluja and other cities, and increasing attacks on U.S. forces throughout Iraq have forced the U.S. to reconsider its plans to reduce troop deployments.

Now, some might want to join the National Guard right now. It is true that the National Guard serves as a refuge as some who do not want to serve in the International Military. However, they have already sent National Guard batallions to Iraq. During the Vientam war, the sent two battallions of 5000 men, one from Honolulu and one from Arkansas.

Now, if you look at the "Defend America" link, that was put up recently by the military. Why the hell would they do something like so recently when it hasn't been done for the last three decades? Kind of makes you wonder why they did it.

I am just kind of sitting here in disbelief thinking that this could actually happen.

<snip>

What should you do if the draft is re-instated? well, you have several options. You can go on behalf of the draft board and say that you are a consientious objector. However, that probably wouldn't be too effective. If you have a permanent injury, then you probably will not go to Iraq. If you are rich, you can buy yourself out of it. However, it will cost a couple hundred thousand of dollars.

There is also the other option. During the Vietnam war, thousands of young men went to Canada. However, they could not come back to their homes in the states, even after the war ended. Their exile ended when President Jimmy Carter signed presidential pardons for all draft dodgers during the war I believe in 1979. If you can find a President that nice, you will be lucky.

(End of e-mail)

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. For the record the Military is not too enthused with the

idea either...

Here are the possitives (and they are debatable)

Democratizing the country, as it is a leveling experience

Makes politics once again relevant (Yep this is a huge possitive)

NOW FOR THE NEGATIVES (which Clark even sort of kind of referred to)

Drug policy, there it goes

Pay (which is already low) goes even lower

Moral goes lower

Discipline, what the hell is that?

Draftees are trained (they are going to be there only for two years), and then leave, well the cost of training even an infantry man in today's military is close to two million...not very cost effective. the military, depending on MoS, gets its money back only after the end of a four year tour (break even point)

The abuses that are now gone from the force, will come back with a vengeance... see about discipline.

I could go on...

So just like going to war, they will be draged into this kicking and screaming... (yes they were they were leaking like sieves before the war when they were working on them plans)

[SonofRage]

2. two words...

Refuse and Resist

[newyawker99]

26. Hi SonofRage!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[highlonesome]

33. or these two

how about

"I'm gay."

I've also wondered whether simply failing the drug test during the physical would be enough. Any comments?

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[La_Serpiente]

6. Hmmmmm

I think I will take a pass.

[Newcastle]

15. Now, demi,

not only do you not present any reasonable argument in your favor, but you risk raining down a lot of bad karma on yourself. You should never wish for the death of another person. Now, place nice, make an actual point, and then we'll talk to you.

[ClintonTyree]

4. During the Viet Nam war.................

my parents, who were both conservatives, were going to finance my exile to Canada. I never asked them to, so is was quite a surprise when they related that fact to me. As it turned out, I failed my preinduction physical so it became a moot point. If you love your children, do anything within your power to keep them from being cannon fodder for Bush's war. I have a 19 old duaghter in college, who would probably get an academic deferrment, at least for a while, but if she were to become eligable for service, we would both move to the Carribean.
I know that sounds selfish when other poor people's children are going to have to fight Bush's illegal, immoral war, but I wll not have her blood shed for Bush's ego.
Do anything you have to, but keep your children safe from the Bush war machine.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. The way the bill read

in congress reads, that deferment will only work
until she is done with the semester

Start those C.O files NOW

[DrFunkenstein]

8. Get A Doctor's Note?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[alphafemale]

38. Cute. Very cute.

Don't quite know him that well, tho.

:evilgrin:

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. You know what son

You have no idea of what you speak... absolutely no idea

What is more... you are blaming the victims of this misAdministration
who cannot just throw their rifles down and go home

If it were just that simple....

But hey, keep your delusions... we know you have them...

By the way, you are in the fringes and no better than the fringe on the right... yep you heard me right.

So you and them boys at Free Republic are spiritual brothers.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Your stereotypes are getting boring

Most of the troops are NOT stupid Red Necks and many of the troops are not too happy to have to go

IN fact the National Guard troops are down right pissed as well as the Reserves (where we will see the first crack, as we are seeing it, in not re-uping) And here is a big fricking clue to you, so is the active component, but here is another big fricking clue... unlike you, who is hiding behind the Constitution, they do not have the Freeodom of Speech yuo posses, hence they effectively have no voice... at that point WE, yes kemosabe, WE become their voice.

There is more, but you have so many stereotypes that there is no use in talkng to you

After all why would you care if the Military enlisted personnel live under the poverty level (E-4 and bellow), or that they start to make a descent living, if yuo can call it, after they hit E-7

Why would you care if the military is being used and abused by these cheap labor conservatives? You would not care.

What would you care if the military is doing a job they have no choice, since they cannot just drop down their guns and go home.

As I said you are a radical, in the fringe, not better than the cheap labor conservatives who ACTUALLY CELEBRATE the mistreatment of those troops, since they VOLUNTEERED... hence they deserve it.

So do me a favor, go over to freeper land... they will love you for your scorning of the troops. They scorn them as well... and for that you and them deserve my contempt.

As I said, in another thread, the Iraqis have all the NATURAL rights in the world to defend themselves (and in an ideal world bombing the ICRC should be condemned even by the likes of you, I don't expect you to do it, after all they are just figthing the invaders and tools of the US, RIGHT?). But I will not be rooting for them when they kill any of the soldiers.

If and when, it is just a matter of time, we have a US Trooper engage in what the military clearly defines as wartimes (It happens, that is the nature of war) then I want that person prosecuted. But I will not be rooting for the resistance.

You can do that. Just like the Neo Cons who see the troops as cordwood, you can join them in spitting on the troops. I am sure that you and your fellow Freeper fellow travellers will have a riot doing that. You are doing it alraedy in a virtual fashion, just as the freepers are doing it already in a virtual fashion.

[TAH6988]

27. Great post except for one thing

Military enlisted memebers, even under the rank of E-4, don't live below the poverty level. And many earn a "decent" living at E-4 and E-5.

[htuttle]

39. If they are single, that's true

If they have a family, then she's correct also.

[TAH6988]

41. No, she's not

A married E-4 (it takes about 4-5 years to become an E-5 in the Air Force - so if one enlisted at 18, right out of high school, one would be an E-5 at 22/23) earns $1,903/month in basic pay, $726/month in housing allowance (I used a low cost of living area, Ft Hood Tx--In my area of Crofton MD, that housing allowance would be $1,233/month), and a basic allowance for subsistence (food allowance) of $242/month. Both the housing and food allowance are "tax-free" (i.e., not subject to federal or state income tax). That's a grand total of $2,871/month ($968 of which is not taxable). Therefore, a married E-5 in the Air Force makes about $34K a year in a low cost of living area like Ft Hood Tx. Not bad for 23 year-old with a high school education and definetely above the poverty line (which for a family of four was $18,390 in 2002).

[alphafemale]

11. When Bush 1 started this sh*t my son was an infant hugging my neck.

I had the forethought then - as I watchted military armor travel the rails past our town -

"This will involve the child in my arms"

Sorry.
I didn't raise children to die for Haliburton or Bectel.

[bushisanidiot]

37. Sounds Like My Son And Your's Are The Same Age. He should say he's gay

how much easier could it be?

i say if AWOL only wants bloodthirsty homophobes fighting his battles for him, he will have no use for my son.

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

13. I would absolutely not go !

I am a 23 year old female . I would not pass the psychological exam if given . I should have never taken the ASVAB test ( some test I took just so I would not have to go to class , easy test , I got a high score and to my dumb luck I am on their files . ) I am going to sign up for another semester of college or just stay in Germany - they have to find me .

Do you guys really think they would draft females ?

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. YES

the bill includes femeles

18-25

Look if Bush decides to JUST SIGN the Executive Order, he only gets
the Selective Service, which is only males, but I can bet
they will have females too, and something to protect cronies too...

Start your C.O. FILE now.

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

16. I am officially scared and

crying right now . I am not going to war for this DAMN BASTARD . If Jenna and Barbara don't go , I am not going ... and regardless I AM JUST NOT GOING !

BTW : What is a C.O File and where do I go to file one for my cousin and I ?

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Concsientous Objector

And there are organizations on the web that help soldiers with it

http://www.objector.org/ccco/whoweare.html

Here is one site that may help

By the way, I am not against war on principle, just this war...

This war is worst than Nam.

http://www.nisbco.org/whoisaco.html

Another site

[neebob]

17. From the Selective Service

http://www.sss.gov/FSconsobj.htm

It doesn't sound too promising if you ask me. As for leaving the country, don't think they won't take bigtime preventive measures against that. Why not all just band together and make a ferocious stink? I'm interested in joining or starting a parents' anti-war group. See my thread entitled "Grandiose democracy speech + fake troop-rotation plan = perpetual war."

On edit:

Here's a link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=667089

[MuseRider]

29. I just bookmarked

your thread and when I get home later I will read it. Thanks, I am interested. My sons are almost 18 and almost 20 and I doubt there is a thing I can do right now to keep them out. We are trying. I will get back to you.

[bluestateguy]

20. I will be there to help

At the at age 27--28 or 29 by the time a draft comes--I am not likely to be called in a draft, but I will lend my services to anyone who needs help with draft resistence. I will not fight in George W. Bush's mercenary army. In fact, even if American was really truly in danger from a foreign foe I would join or form a citizen militia--which many American patriots did in the Revolutionary War and on both sides of the Civil War--separate from the jurisdiction of the Pentagon. I simply will not trust my life in the hands of this crowd.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. That is why I am telling these kids

start that file now.. I have no idea how effective it will be.

By the way was talking to my husband, and if Bush looses and decides
to just start the draft out of spite... he did tell me that the next President can stop it, as the CiC, with an executive order...

So wil see...

Personally I expect the boy king to get it on, mostly we do NOT have the troops and that reality will sooner or later dawn on the cabal.

Now what I want to see, and this is a very serious question, is where are they going to train all these new troops?

Serious...

The Navy went from three to one Training Center

The Marines are the only ones who still have two

The Army now has ONE boot Camp

The AF has ONE boot Camp.

We don't have the facilities.

You think they have thought this one through or just like everything
else they will do it and then realize how much of a miscalculation it is?

Willing to bet my bottom dollar on the latter... they have done everything else that way. But if you suddenly see the DoD ahem, "reaquiring" the NTC in San Diego, get ready, that will be even more of a sign of where they are going with this.

[Malva Zebrina]

34. why they will build more

and you know who will get the contract.

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

21. Here is a letter that a young Bill Clinton wrote

on why he refuses /refused to take part in the Vietnam War .

http://www.americanpresidents.org/letters/41.asp

I found it about a month ago .

[ComerPerro]

24. Wow, that is really good

Damn.

[JeebusH]

25. if worst comes to worst, just tell your kid to fail every test they give

I did that when I was in basic training at Fort Sill in 1987 when I realized I made a mistake joining the Army ... fail the ASVAB (it was too late for me), faint during training exercise (I got away with that one), just be a numbnut

Its tough because of the peer pressure (expect for really one guy, I basically liked all the other guys I was training with) and the Drill Sgts do know how to press you (they knew what I was doing and tried to stop me), but I hated being there too much to let them get to me

Others ways ... summons, lots of summons; if you have too many traffic tickets the Army won't want you and while it may hurt your kid's chances at good insurance rates, it will be better than fighting Georgie's wars

edit to say: I forgot that some people here have reported that people who got zero on the ASVAB have been contacted by the Army, so there may not be a failing grade for this test

[catmandu57]

28. Pull a nugent

crap in your underpants for a week or two without changing them, let personal hygene go to hell, don't bathe, don't shave, don't comb your hair, don't change clothing, but most of all don't jump up and down while yelling kill. Sorry couldn't resist that last one.

[Mari333]

30. draft? if they want a MAJOR anti war movement

they will get one if they call the draft in...Im not kidding..every young man and woman who is subject will suddenly get REAL political...My 20 yr old son has major back problems so he wont make it, my 22 yr old is a smart cookie, and he would flee and I would help him...my 25 yr old , thanks to you all, is OUT in Jan...
Im telling you, it would radicalize the young if this happened, the ones sitting in college who cant get defermits would suddenly wake up and smell the coffee..so would a LOT of armchair warmongers if THEIR kids got called up...

[tabasco]

31. Rush Limbaugh anal problems

worked for the fatman.

[burythehatchet]

32. Two words

Dual citizenship. My older son holds a French passport and I would make sure he gets to France before any harm comes to him.

BTW, I know this is a serious topic but it reminds me of Alice's Restaurant....

[hayu_lol]

35. HR 3598 IH...

The Universal Service and Training Act has been in the procurement committee's hands for about 3 years now. Wouldnt take much to activate it. (Procurement Committee of the Armed Services Committee in the house).
Lots of things in this act that are mindblowers including no deferments for education, very low pay, short term of a year's service, and women can volunteer.

[OneBlueSky]

36. Arlo had the answer over 30 years ago . . .

"And the only reason I'm singing you this song now is cause you may know somebody in a similar situation, or you may be in a similar situation, and if your in a situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's walk into the shrink wherever you are ,just walk in say "Shrink, You can get anything you want, at Alice's restaurant.". And walk out. You know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony, they may think they're both faggots and they won't take either of them. And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.

"And that's what it is , the Alice's Restaurant Anti-Massacre movement, and all you got to do to join is sing it the next time it come's around on the guitar."

from "Alice's Restaurant" by Arlo Guthrie

[htuttle]

40. I have 2 sons, so I nailed a bookshelf onto the door of my back hallway...

I got the idea from 'Diary of Anne Frank'...

[Zorra]

42. Make preparations to begin and use

an "underground railroad" system to get your kids out of the US if it seems imminent that the draft will be re-enacted. There are already sympathetic people in Canada and Mexico that are prepared to help, and they understand the systems of the respective countries where they live, and can advise the kids on how to effectively hide out and establish themselves. Parents should figure a way to assist their children financially until the kids learn the ropes of living in a different country.

My children will not be murdered by Resident George W. Bush and the corporations he represents.

Here is a compilation of articles that may help.

http://www.library.ubc.ca/jones/amcan.html

[highlonesome]

43. isn't it easier than that?

I haven't had a chance to read all the entries here, but a couple of thoughts I have is that it's just as easy to avoid the draft nowadays as it was during the vietnam era if not more so.

One could intentionally fail drug testing during the physical. I mean, smoke a joint before you go in and you'll be automatically failed entry -- right? The only thing I'd be worried about is instatement of some kind of rehab boot camp whose graduates are immediately put on the front line.

The other still viable option is to simply state: "I'm gay."

[greendog]

44. If 10,000 draft age kids...

...each went to their county courthouse and had their names legally changed to "George W. Bush" and then refused to serve wouldn't it help shine a little light on the military record of our fearless leader?

How could the press ignore a story like that?

They could present evidence to their draft boards and their local media about the AWOL gap in Bush's record and say "whats good for one Bush is good for another".

They could also present evidence pointing to the illegal nature of the Iraq War and the series of lies told by our president.

When called to serve they could simply not show up.

10,001 draft avoiders named George W. Bush. 10,001 George W. Bush's gone AWOL. 10,001 law breakers named George W. Bush. Arrest the one who started it all.

:)

[tom_paine]

45. Underground Railroad!