NYTimes: Dean Could Upend 30 Years Of Campaign Finance Reform

[DrFunkenstein]

Both Republicans and Democrats expressed concern that the result would be a lopsided, two-tiered system in which only long-shot candidates accepted public financing while front-runners were free to raise and spend without limits.

Dr. Dean, who is the best-financed Democrat in the race after raising more than $25 million this year, all but pleaded with his supporters to give him the green light to opt out of the system in a speech in New York on Wednesday.

"Why patch up something that people overwhelmingly don't like?" asked Senator Mitch McConnell, Republican of Kentucky, the primary opponent of last year's campaign-finance law. "I think we ought to kiss this experiment goodbye."

Advocates say the program, which was a response to the campaign finance scandals of the Watergate era, has allowed candidates to spend less time raising money and more time campaigning.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/06/politics/campaigns/06MONE.html

[Hep]

1. Really?

Advocates say the program, which was a response to the campaign finance scandals of the Watergate era, has allowed candidates to spend less time raising money and more time campaigning.

Candidates such as...

[John_H]

2. Chimp's gonna raise 400 mil, and DEAN'S upending campaign finance reform?

Welp, there you have it-- more commie pinko, Bush-bashing spin from the librul media ...

[kentuck]

6. Exactly!

Let's pretend the elephant isn't in the room??

[DrFunkenstein]

13. Amend McCain-Feingold - This Will Set It Back For Years

We need to bring the direct donor maximum down to $1000, but this will never happen if people don't believe the system will work.

Mend it, don't end it.

[RetroLounge]

15. and how will Dean do that if he doesn't win?

don't think too hard, don't want your head to explode...

[DrFunkenstein]

39. Remember That When You Criticize Gep For Missing Votes

Now that the ends justify the means, think about that.

[slinkerwink]

44. Geffy's missed really important votes

such as overtime pay, partial birth abortion ban, etc.

[Classical_Liberal]

56. This doesn't do anything to McCain Feingold.

. No more than Bush's refusal to take matching funds hurts it.

[Cocoa]

3. your headline doesn't match what I see at the NYT

if anyone is upending the system, it's Bush.

I think Dean should reject public financing. If he matches Bush's money, he'll still have the advantage that his money is coming from a much wider range of donors.

[DrFunkenstein]

5. Dean Will Never Match Bush's Money

And instead of working to amend the McCain-Feingold to get direct donations back to $1000, campaign finance will be set back immeasurably.

[slinkerwink]

8. uh...with the AFSCME and the SEIU.....

that's 3.3 million members together for Dean. At $75 bucks each, that's $247 million right there, folks. Realistically, with Dean now at $35 million for the primaries so far, he can get that amount of money to Beat Bush....

[NewYorkerfromMass]

19. the union endorsements are not unanimous

as much as some would like to believe.

[slinkerwink]

24. I have it on good information that they are unanimous

It's all about creating momentum for Dean to have a double endorsement---this is a part of the "king-making" part of the AFSCME.

[DrFunkenstein]

41. Um, I Think He Meant

Within the unions there might not be uninamity.

[Bertrand]

43. more like 'will'

35% of all union members voted for Bush in 2000, at least those that bothered to show up.

[RetroLounge]

14. immeasurably?

Oh, I'm sure you and you Dean Bashing ilk will measure it for us.

Thanks for caring.

[Guaranteed]

49. Should he castrate himself, too? nt

[Classical_Liberal]

57. How?, since repukes already refuse matching funds?

?

[slinkerwink]

4. it sounds like to me you want Bush to Beat Dean

if Dean stays with the federal matching funds system. I think EVERY Dem in this presidential race should opt out of the system because Bush opted out.

[DrFunkenstein]

7. The Way To Beat Bush Is Not By Being Bush-Lite

Has a nice ring to it, doesn't it?

[slinkerwink]

9. AND Dean is NOT Bush-lite

:nopity:

[clarknyc]

10. Yeah

So does fighting a bazooka with a popgun.

[redqueen]

47. And fighting a bazooka with a 22 will be better?

How, exactly?

This race must be run on ideals and principles, not money.

If it's about money, * has already won.

[Classical_Liberal]

54. Only if it is from corporate sponcers. The DLC doesn't complain

about milking peanuts from Bush funders.

[Classical_Liberal]

55. On the war, not on matching Bush dollar for dollar

Our dollars don't come from the same people who fund Bush unlike most of the TNR candidates.

[Larry Gude]

11. No matter if Dean...

...gets the nomination or not, he has changed (for the better IMHO) the campaign finance landscape via the 'net.

Some 50 million people VOTED for Al Gore last time. If someone you are willing to vote for is worth $10 out of your pocket then, viola, that person has $500 mil and it's from 50 million people. That's HUGE.

The only campaing finance reform I've heard of is from Alan Keyes (with some modification by me) which gets the idea dismissed out of hand but here it is again:

If it can't vote, it can't contribute, I.E. corporations and unions and PAC's can't give shit to Dean or Shrub or the parties. They can only run promotions in their own name, I.E. "This GW Bush commercial brought to you by Enron". If 'it' can vote, IE Babs or Limbo, 'it' can give every dime they like but it MUST be disclosed publicly and immediately.

Full disclosure and PAC entities cut off from buying candidates.

Pie in the sky or the new reality in the information age?

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slinkerwink]

16. CW, they'll delete personal attacks

:sigh:

[CWebster]

20. it was just a little luv message to Funkenstein

He knows that. ;-)

[DrFunkenstein]

28. We Go Way Back

Don't let the vitriol fool you. We've learned not to take this too personally. I'm cool with anyone as long as they have a decent sense of humor.

:toast:

[Forkboy]

17. While I dont take Funk seriously when he speaks of Dean

I dont take you seriously when you speak of Clark.You two are almost mirror images.

[CWebster]

22. Well, perhaps we enjoy the sport.

[Forkboy]

27. Perhaps

[CWebster]

35. Forkboy

Don't feel sad. I'm pretty much an equal opportunity gunner. Edwards, Clark, Clinton, sometimes Dean too. The only one I have never had in my sights is Carol Mosely Braun. Who, in a perfect world, is my favorite.

[Forkboy]

36. You wont get an argument from me

about CMB...she is awesome.

[bitchkitty]

59. Really, I'm pleased to hear that.

I like her too. Pity that many Americans are too thick to appreciate the natural diplomatic and political skill of women.

[Forkboy]

60. heh

Pity that many Americans are too thick to appreciate the natural diplomatic and political skill of women.

is this an example :evilgrin:

[bitchkitty]

67. Hmmm - I should have said

"many" women. I'm certainly no diplomat! ;)

[DrFunkenstein]

18. Kerry Stood By Self-Imposed Caps Against Weld

He never accepted a dime of PAC money and he fought with Paul Wellstone for Clean Election Reform. I think he has a little more integrity than Dr. What-Do-You-Think-I-Should-Say.

[Hep]

23. where will you be

if Kerry decides not to take the matching funds? Can we call you out for an amendment to that comment?

[slinkerwink]

25. uh......

Dean has accepted NO Pac money, and 99% of his money comes from his supporters---that won't change when he opts out because it would be political suicide to do so.

[sfecap]

26. Really? He did?

(snip)

So let's go back to 1996, to Kerry's reelection campaign against then-Governor Bill Weld, specifically to the night Weld met Kerry at the senator's wife's Beacon Hill mansion. They finalized an unprecedented agreement to limit advertising spending to $5 million apiece, and to limit the use of personal funds in the campaign to $500,000 apiece.

Good government types hailed the agreement as a major breakthrough. Kerry and Weld basked in the plaudits of editorialists the nation over. Kerry described the pact as "a model for campaign reform across the country."

But a funny thing happened on the way to Election Day. Kerry didn't just violate the deal, he pulverized it. Running out of money in the waning days of October, Kerry mortgaged and remortgaged the Louisburg Square house, ultimately pouring $1.7 million in personal funds into his campaign. For those of you keeping track at home, that's $1.2 million more than the agreement allowed.

As he made a mockery of the pact, he did something else distinctly distasteful. He accused Weld of violating the agreement, a charge that seemed specious at best, an outright lie at worst.

(more)
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2003/09/16/hard_to_pull_for_kerry/

[DrFunkenstein]

37. Weld Broke The Advertising Cap In The Final Days Of The Race

What is so hard to understand about that?

[sfecap]

42. Uh Huh...anything you say, Funk...

n/t

[Cha]

51. Doesn't look like kerry

has changed a bit..
"As he made a mockery of the pact, he did something else distinctly distasteful. He accused Weld of violating the agreement, a charge that seemed specious at best, an outright lie at worst."

[dsc]

62. No he didn't

he broke them as has been repeatedly posted here. He did so for good reason but he did.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

63. Dupe of Sfecap's post

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slinkerwink]

30. he is not a draft dodger

He has a legitimate problem with his back, and that's why the army said no to him and gave him a medical deferment.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Patriot_Spear]

21. So be it- wring your hands after we win.

How many troops have to die before you guys are willing to get serious about winning?

[DrFunkenstein]

38. If We Was Serious, Why Is He Passing The Buck To His Supporters?

I love a man willing to make executive decisions, even when they are unpopular.

[slinkerwink]

40. because Dean wants to show that the campaign is run by the grassroots

duh.

[blm]

61. "show" being the operative word at ALL times. His campaign are all DC

insiders and even defense lobbyists. But, I'll bet that's not how Dean wants his grassroots people to see him.

The "show" must go on.

[dsc]

66. Just what DC job did Trippi have?

He hasn't worked for a campaign even since 92. So put up or apologize.

[flpoljunkie]

45. Dean told supporters in closed door session last week he'd already decided

to forgo public financing. Who ya' gonna believe?

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-dean5nov05234431,1,4148412.story

Last week, while campaigning in California, Dean told potential supporters he had already decided to forgo public financing, according to people who attended the closed-door sessions.

A strategist at Dean headquarters insisted, however, that the candidate's mind was not made up.

"This is a binding vote," the strategist said Tuesday night. "Whatever our supporters decide is what this campaign is going to do."

[redqueen]

48. hahaha

Looks like the strategist knew what their strategy was gonna be (let's ask the grassroots, that way it looks like he tried to stick to our principles, but they said he should go back on he word)

Oops!

[Classical_Liberal]

58. I am happy to give him that and so are most of the rest of his

supporters even presuming that's true. I really don't see why you think this is such a scandal?

[Capn Sunshine]

31. A Level playing field

will only happen if we pass a LAW that says

" the next election will be publicly financed. The Fairness doctrine will be reinstated"

Yeah, that'll happen.

But that's the answer.

Until that time, spare me your homilies, until Bush opts back in.

[slinkerwink]

33. :nods:

:toast:

[Jacobin]

46. When is the NYT gonna come out with endorsement of Holy Joe?

Inquiring minds want to know.

The Dean bashing in the "lib" press begins.

[Cha]

50. What is the newwhoretimes gonna say

about bush's "campaign finance"?

[Gin]

52. Duh...I think the precedent has been set by the slug in the white house.

gin

[Classical_Liberal]

53. To late! We alread have

a lopsided, two-tiered system in which only long-shot candidates accepted public financing while front-runners were free to raise and spend without limits.

The repukes have been forgoing matching funds for a long time.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

64. Since the supporters get to vote, it's legitimate

Dean did the right thing on this one. I suspect that his fundraising comes from mostly well off people, but he does have a lot of people giving, and not just the maximum obviously.

The decision is being left up to the membership, as it should be. I'm sure the Dean campaign hopes they will approve breaking the finance rule and spin it that way, but they are being democratic: one person, one vote, regardless of how much money you contribute. That's democracy.

[TLM]

65. 200,000 people gave an average of 75 bucks each.

Dean is publicly funded...


These other guys just want Dean to be hobbled, and they are pissed that Dean has taken a path which they can not because they lack the level of support Dean has.