Something big DID happen at the Rock the Vote debate...

[robsul82]

...and it wasn't what I thought.

You might remember my making a comment, or maybe I made a thread about it, I can't remember, lol, that something BIG was going to happen at the Rock the Vote debate. I thought it was going to be something positive for Dean, but it wasn't. It wasn't something negative for Dean, and that's good. Instead, I saw something I honestly never thought I'd see.

The Ascension of the General.

I, like many Dean supporters, was weary of Clark's candidacy. Some of it was due to his wild card status, whether he would hurt Dean's numbers, etc. Mainly, I wondered whether he was a true Democrat, willing to fight for the cause. I saw nothing up to that point to prove his worthiness.

I saw that on Tuesday.

I think that's true of many, many Dean supporters. The thread "If Nominated, I Would Fight Like a Demon to Get Dean Elected" is evidence of this. Where there were once uneasy allies, there are now true friends. We once didn't trust each other, but because of General Clark's classy showing at the Rock the Vote debate, a bond has been made. This bond, I believe, will not be broken anytime soon.

I posted many replies to various threads stating my belief that a Howard Dean/John Edwards ticket would bring us our country back. Despite any apologies made by Edwards, his classless and desperate posturing at the debate ended that for me. Simultaneously, due to the debate, I believe in a Howard Dean/Wesley Clark ticket now.

Because of that debate, I now trust in the General. He is a good man. An honest man. I believe in Wesley Clark.

Dean/Clark '04. For our White House. For our party. For our country.

Later.

RJS

[annxburns]

1. I am very proud of Clark ...

... for taking the high road. I hope Dean keeps returning the favor. I also too am warming up to a Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean ticket. I think they will complement each other very well. I was talking about this with a buddy and I said if you were going to hire a couple of guys - these are the ones that complement each other the best.

I know it might get nasty at some point. But I am hopeful. I admire Dean for his toughness and idealism and Clark for his service and smarts.

I'm hopeful

[w13rd0]

2. I've said this before...

...and it bears repeating.

All of the candidates have something positive I can find about them.

Clark strikes me as a candidate who could bring over dissaffected Republicans and (I)ndependents, at least long enough to hear clear criticisms of Bush and stated alternatives to his policies. That's something that needs to happen, and although Dean has his own appeal toward Reps and Independents, Clark appeals to those Dean doesn't catch. He also most certainly (Clark) is a draw for the military and military families. I'm glad he is one of our candidates, and I like that his official campaign doesn't attack the other candidates. I am seeing more "comradrie" between Clark and Dean supporters than was evidenced previously, and that too is good. I'm also seeing more admissions of "I support Canidate A, but I could easily see myself campaigning for Candidates B and C and D, and would vote for any of them over Candidate Bush." That too is a good thing.

We're going through the testing fires, and from it, I'm hopeful, and pretty confident, that we'll have emerge a team that can remove Bush from power, and advance an agenda that seeks to improve the lot of every US citizen, and maybe even everyone the world over. That's my hope for a brighter future anyway...

[Bandit]

3. If Dean wins the presidency I can't see Clark as the VP but I can see him

as Sec. of Defense. Maybe Graham as VP or someone entirely out of the limelight. Someone like Ann Richards or Ann Lewis. I see Dennis Kucinich as Labor Secretary.

[realFedUp]

5. As much as I like Clark as a guy....

Dean, if nominated, will need a guy inside the Beltway...
Graham has a heavy portfolio...as unexciting as he is
and comes from the South.
Clark just doesn't have the political experience yet.

[CWebster]

12. Yeah, I thought about that too.

Both lack knowledge of the ropes.

[mmonk]

29. But he has so much goods

on the Bush administration (Clark) concerning the war in Iraq including events leading up to it and what he heard from pentagon people. This is the stuff people need to know. His credibility won't be questioned and Bush won't be able to respond truthfully. Nobody else will be able to present it.

[lostnfound]

7. DK would make a great Labor Secretary though Big Business would hate him

and I too am warming up to Clark in any capacity.

[truthseeker1]

4. Clark and Dean are my favorites

I'm not sure if it will be a Dean/Clark ticket or Clark/Dean - I'm kind of leaning towards Clark/Dean.

I like Edwards too, but I can't support any of the legislators who supported the Iraq War Resolution or the $187 Billion bill.

Kucinich would be awesome but I don't think he's ready yet and/or don't think America is ready for him yet.

We have to WIN '04 and we must put the candidate forward that can best debate Bush and that person, I believe, is Clark. Can you imagine how intimidating it would be for Bush to have to debate Clark? I think it would really make Bush squirm.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

8. I would agree

were it not for the fact that Clark has very little political experience, even less true political experience than the inept shrub. Clark can contribute 100% of his military prowess as VP, while Dean handles Presidential duty of constantly fending off political attacks.

[mzmolly]

6. I there with you Rob, and I started out being very leary of Clark.

I think he means what he says and seems sincere.

[VolcanoJen]

9. Great post, robs!

I also witnessed the ascension of Clark that night, and it was the best development I feel any of us could have hoped for.

I can't tell you how much I admire him for staying out of the Dean "flag flap" fray. Clark's well aware of the issues, I don't think many would argue that, but what we're really seeing is his keen political savvy, and the quiet sharpening of his gut instincts. Since the forum, he's all I've heard anyone talk about.

And honestly, I can't tell you how many young people have told me that they remember him because his :30 commercial was hilarious.

Ideologically speaking, that might not be what we want to hear, but realistically speaking, the Clark campaign team is truly starting to resemble the political talent of the old '92 Little Rock War Room. I know that upsets a few of us, but it energizes the hell out of this voter.

[Kahuna]

14. Clark is not a judgemental person to begin with...

That's yet another thing I like about him. He's a live and let live sort of person. So, he's just not going to be about attacking anyone personally. That's why he could be supportive of Team Smirk, even though he voted for Gore. Everybody in American doesn't live their lives via partisan divides. Clark is one of those people.

[DemExpat]

28. His 'rejection' of the strict partisan line is absolutely vital

in this time, Kahuna, and one of the reasons I back him 100%.

He gives me much hope for a more positive future.

:kick:

DemEx

[Hep]

10. I'm ready!

We gotta do it together.

[sendero]

11. Dean/Clark...

... would be a dream team ticket IMHO. Clark/Dean would be almost as good. They are both young men, between the 2 we could keep the WH for a long time if the cards were played right.

I've been a Dean supporter for a while, and recently I've been hearing lots of interviews with Clark. I don't think he has a fake bone in his body, I really don't. The way he words things, the ideas he expresses - well all I can say is if he's being false he deserves an Oscar.

I'm sold on Clark too and he is a perfect low-key complement to Dean's in-your-face style. I swear, if we can't take the WH with these 2, we can't take the WH!

[Larkspur]

13. Nope, still not a Clark supporter

Don't want him on the ticket. Still don't trust him.

[Pastiche423]

15. It is impossible to trust

a pig in a poke.

[Eloriel]

18. Why don't the two of you

post some things from some of those many discussions on Clark that went on several months ago? I would, but I don't have links any more (computer crash). I'm really sick of the Deanies' Clark lovefest. Obviously, they don't have the information they need, and it drives me crazy I don't have the information to share with them either.

Anyone?

Eloriel

[wyldwolf]

27. Oh, you mean the same discredited exaggerated information?

...that a few of you continually post to an ever dwindling interested audience?

[Kahuna]

31. Yeah! That's it!

That load that nobody ever bothers to look at. :evilgrin:

[Kahuna]

30. Oh Boo freakin' hoo, Eloriel...

:nopity: You wost your widdle pile of hooey. Whatever will you do?

:cry:

[tom_paine]

16. Clark/Dean or Dean/Clark

I'd happily support EITHER!

[robsul82]

17. For all the comments...

...I thank you gladly, no matter what you had to say. :)

Later.

RJS

[Skwmom]

19. Dean would hurt Clark too much.

Once Rove exposed Dean as the lying phony he actually is, it would be too easy for Rove to paint Clark as the same (guilt by association) or at the very least cast very serious doubt over Clark's judgment.

[unfrigginreal]

21. Clark has already cast serious doubt over his judgement.

That's why he shouldn't be at the top of the ticket. Do you think Rove will make more hay by lying about Dean or playing Clark's "tremendously admire" video?

[KittyWampus]

32. Clark Could Easily Talk About THE REST OF THAT SPEECH!

Should Rove be stupid enough to bring up the video after Clark gets the nod, all Clark'd have to do is tell the public WHAT WAS IN HIS SPEECH!

He critiques Junior's policy for heaven's sake.

Clark began with a diplomatic salutation and then went on to diplmatically critiqe the Bush Administration.

[PurityOfEssence]

20. apparently, your definition of "class" is "doesn't contradict Dean"

John Edwards had every right to say what he did to Howard Dean, including calling him "arrogant". Edwards has been a true gentleman in the sparring that is a primary season, and Dean has been an absolute rotter.

Edwards was decent enough to commend Dean on his retraction, and I'd like to add that Dean's retraction, grounded as it was in a very honorable self-assessment of his tendency to be unyielding, was very grown-up and constructive.

Dean has slagged Edwards repeatedly and not retracted proven misrepresentations; to have not responded to Dean would have been lily-livered.

[Padraig18]

22. Clark is a candidate of substance!

Dean/Clark in '04. :thumbsup:

[FrenchieCat]

23. I am sorry, but if anything.....

it would have to be Clark/Dean....and that's even hard for me to imagine......Clark can always find a VP that has domestic experience...he doesn't need Dean. Dean even said something negative at the debates about Clark.....did everyone conveniently forget?

I won't, cause I've got the pic of BAD ASS Clark doing his thing...right here

[Woodstock]

24. Edwards praised him the next day

I have had bouts of being ticked at Edwards and Kerry, but after the Women's Forum debate, I buried the hatchet.

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/webcast/

ps. I think Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean would be fantastic.

[Closer]

25. Sorry guys

but Clark WON'T be Dean's running mate, it will be Graham. I PROMISE you.

So we better get used to it.

Dean/Graham '04

[skeptic9]

35. Dean/Graham -- WOW! With all he knows about WH counterterrorism failures ....

... just IMAGINE the kinds of damage Graham could do to the Republicans' convention "message", just as most voters are making up their minds for next November.Rove chose NYC for the GOP convention so he could try to wrap Dubya in the flag at Ground Zero for a solid week. Even Fox News would have to do more than parrot Rove's spin at convention time if Graham has a powerful platform for telling what he knows about abject WH dereliction of duty against the proven terror threat leading up to 9/11.Remember the early debate where a LaRouche idiot shouted Graham down, just as he was starting to speak up on WH counterintelligence negligence? I was sorry to see Graham drop out. With the "juicing" of the economy Greenspan is going to allow until the election, what Graham could expose about Dubya's stunning national-defense incompetence becomes more and more important to hopes for re-taking the White House.

[ronzo]

26. Well, I'm glad to see everybody's relaxing a little.

I support Wes Clark, and have made every effort to avoid all these obnoxious Dean v Clark threads. You won't find any posts from me that slagged Howard Dean. It was a pointless exercise. People weren't being swayed. If anything, "the usual suspects" on both sides of this brouhaha were turning the undecided Dems off with all this over the top zealotry. I'm pleased to see a little harmony. Let's keep our eye on the prize and kick that monkey faced son of a bitch to the WH curb in a year.

Amen, brother and sisters. Keep it positive.

And thanks to go DTH and Rob for breaking some of the ice here.

:toast:

"Brothers, we should be struggling together."
"We are."

[xultar]

33. So true and well said...we have one Struggle and it is to oust

Bush from the White Housel
I support Clark but most of all I support DUers and our efforts as a whole to get people to vote to oust SHRUB in 2004

[mrgorth]

34. I'm sorry

what was big that happened at RTV and where'd you get that quote from? I must be dense right now.

[mot78]

36. Regardless of whether it's Dean or Clark that gets the nomination

I hope that there's no bitterness between us on DU. We need to combine the grassroots infarstructure of the most web-friendly and the second most web-friendly candidates. John Hlinko and Job Trippi could become the new Begala and Carville.

[grasswire]

37. Dean-Graham is not electable.

As much as I like and respect Graham, and as much as I like certain traits of Dean, that is just not a ticket that can beat the Bush machine.

Dean is bait-able. Rove will be able to bait Dean into making mistakes. That's my biggest obstacle to Dean being nominated. He doesn't consider the ramifications of some things he says.

[mot78]

38. Who said anything about Graham?