To all Dean and Clark supporters

[jeter]

Let's work together. The truth is we can help each other. Why would Clarkies attack Dean and benefit Kerry or Lieberman. Either of which hurts Clark in the long run.

It makes more sense to unite. Then if it comes down to a Clark - Dean mano a mano race then we start cracking each others skulls again. But until then lets work together to knock out Gepthardt, Kerry and Lieberman.

Let's make 2004 about Dean and Clark - Clark and Dean.

[kyrasdad]

1. I wonder if Clark and Dean would agree to be Co-Presidents

instead of President and Vice President. I mean one would have to have the title of VP, but they would have an agreement that each were equal. I think if Dean and Clark were on the same ticket, Bush would get bulldozed... But neither Clark or Dean would want o be viewed as second in charge...

[Rowdyboy]

2. They represent the cream of the crop of this years

candidates, complement each other geographically and tempermentally, and are pretty in tune on issues. I think things will boil down to the two of them by late March/early April.

[David Zephyr]

24. Dare I Say "Ditto" Here?

I agree. But it will be sooner than March. The enormous impact of the joint union endorsements coming next week for Howard Dean pretty much will end Gephardt's campaign. It will have the Edwards camp in discussions with the Dean/Clark camp before January. Did you notice how John Edwards has gallantly come to Dean's defense now?

Signs of the times.

Senator John Edwards will be the next Attorney General of the United States of America. Look out corporate crooks and cronies.

[quinnox]

3. A dissenting view

I hope Clark the man and his supporters join with the other candidates, and take down Dean the Titanic hard. It's time for Dean to exit stage left.

I envision a unified front, all the candidates together to knock Dean out of the race.

[Ripley]

6. So you think going against the people's will is a GOOD thing?

You sound like the people who forced Smirk upon us, against the people's will. Not very democratic of you.

[quinnox]

9. I believe in the people's will, but don't confuse

Dean's will with the people's will. It isn't the same thing. Only those wearing Dean-colored glasses would think that.

[Ripley]

18. So if the polls all show Dean has the most support

it is Dean's will? You mean he made up all of those contributions and meet-up members?

[_NorCal_D_]

20. Dean certainly

has strength among his supporters. Nevertheless I fear that Dean would not be able to persuade Independents, Southerners, and others to vote for him in the presidential election.

[Ripley]

21. I'm an Independent and Southerner.

So there goes that theory.

[_NorCal_D_]

23. LOL

well I guess you would know better than anyone! Tell me, do you think southerners, especially after the flag fiasco, would consider voting for Dean?

[KittyWampus]

30. Dean Most Certainly Does NOT Have The Most Support

He is battling for having the highest percentage of support....

but if you add all the other percentage points Dean is not enjoying widespread support.

When other candidates fall by the way side and their supporters switch to second favorites...
THEN perhaps Dean may end up with the most supporters.

[poskonig]

7. Why destroy the talent for someone like Lieberman?

We'd be throwing away Dean's organization, money, talented political team, the DDF, et cetera, for basically nothing in exchange.

[_NorCal_D_]

14. I'm with you quinnox.

As of now, Dean is my least favored candidate.

[HFishbine]

34. Good luck on that

We won't hold it against you though when we support Clark for VP.

[JNelson6563]

37. workin' hard to plant that meme, aren't ya?

You're reaching "laughable" with that. So tell me, have ya done anything constructive lately?

Julie

[Renew Deal]

45. This sounds like Survivor

or some reality show.

[Andromeda]

53. Oh sure,

It seems to be going the other way but what the heck, facts are inconvenient things aren't they?

All of the candidates with the exception of Clark, who has consistently taken the high road in the debates---much to his credit---have been frantically trying hard to bring Dean down and have only succeeded in making themselves look petty and desperate.

There will be a united front all right and that will be when the Democtrats rally around Dean when he wins the nomination.

[neuvocat]

4. I concurr.

I made my choice simply based on someone who I feel represents me and my interests the most.

However I do respect others who do the same. Their choice of supporting Dean is just as valid as my choice of supporting Clark, so there's no reason to bash Dean supporters or vice-versa.

[Pastiche423]

5. Let's not

[Hep]

8. Sign me up

I've been with the clark crew from the beginning. Anyone who is willing to say Dean's name without following it up with BS.

[_NorCal_D_]

10. I respectfully disagree.

I doesn’t make sense for the supporters of the two front runners to join forces, just to crush the rest of the candidates.

[Ripley]

19. Read post #3.

He wants not just 2 to join up, but all 8 of them to gang up on Dean.

[Catch22Dem]

11. Kinda one sided...

"Why would Clarkies attack Dean and benefit Kerry or Lieberman"

What about the other way around? It goes both ways, ma brutha. :)

[bicentennial_baby]

22. I gotta agree there

I noticed that

[xultar]

31. True...I've never seen Clark Supporters attack EVER

So I don't know what you are talking about. I think you are 100% wrong on that one. It makes me think that either DUers aren't reading the posts in detail. Please post any links where Clark supporters have attached any candidate.

[JNelson6563]

38. hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

Then you are either blind, read very few threads here or have incredibly selective reading. A very few Clarkies do little else.

Julie

[xultar]

40. Help me out post some links, Puhleez

[xultar]

42. Open Invitation, please post links where Clark Supporters have attacked

I'd really really really like to see them. I'm just about to place my order for a DUshirt as a donation so I can search for all Clark posts so I can find them if they are there.

This has got to be my 5th time asking for any Clark Supporter attack posts.

[JNelson6563]

46. Better send the check dear

or just scan a few days worth of posts in GD. I've seen your glowing reviews of Clark supporters ABSOLTELY NEVER attacking and with only a few days of reading (or minutes depending on the day) you will see what I mean.

Sorry but I'm not dragging up old shit to get kicked to the top of GD if it's dead adn I'm not going to name-drop re: the worst offenders and kick off a flame war.

Go read Dean threads, and Clark threads. You'll see. If you're able that is.

Julie

[xultar]

49. Thanks Julie, I will.

[jeter]

54. It should work both ways

I'm a Dean supporter. So hence the way I phrased it. Clark is my second choice.

It makes perfect sense. The two are similar on issues. But come from different backgrounds and geographical locations.

What will happen if Clark helps the others "knock out Dean?" Well the others will then gang up and "knock out Clark."

If you make this a race between Dean and Clark, then the argument is neutralized and we can talk about who has better positions, record. Who has the better shot at winning, etc.

Instead of the stupid crap coming out of the Kerry, Gepthardt and Lieberman campaigns.

But I agree that Clark himself is running the cleanest campaign.

[Skwmom]

12. Sorry, I respect Kerry and Gepthardt and can't stand the Flim-Flam man.

I'd feel like I was swimming in a sewer.

[bicentennial_baby]

13. I'm down

Whassup Deanies? This Clarkista has yer back, for real. :toast:

[Eloriel]

15. No, No, NO!!!

Clark has a past that would guarantee his defeat at Rove's hands. BIG trouble.

I am so sick of these threads where well-meaning but utterly clueless people engage in lovefest about Clark and Dean teaming up. I want Dean as far away from him as Superman stayed from kryptonite. Thank GOD he wised up and started distancing himself from Clark after the truth about his Democratic credentials (or lack thereof) came out. Whew!

I'm even sicker of the fact that I no longer have all the links to help people understand how bad Clark really is. However, I've appealed to a friend to send me some of them if she still has them herself.

However, one thing you can do is google: Clark +Jackson Stephens. Then google ole Jackson for a bit, esp. BCCI.

Eloriel

[_NorCal_D_]

16. 'Clark +Jackson Stephens'

I've seen this tired old conspiracy theory before. :(

[FrenchieCat]

17. Desperation is not becoming

on anyone....

[Pastiche423]

25. Neither is ignorance

or denial.

[_NorCal_D_]

28. Absolutely

denial is a terrible, terrible thing. :)

[FrenchieCat]

29. Agreed......

I'll take one Bad Ass in the Black, please.

[blm]

26. Knock out ALL the LONGTIME Democrats for 2 new guys?

Great plan. Democrats with long memories of the last 30 years will be ever so grateful and happy you foisted a Libertarian leaning centrist on us.

[Padraig18]

33. Dean is not a 'Libertarian-leaning' centrist...

... your characterization nonwithstanding.

[blm]

44. His 11 year record says he is.

And so do many of the Democrats who served with him in Vermont.

[Padraig18]

47. That'opinion'.

Not to be confused with 'fact'.

[blm]

51. Opinion of those Democrats who WORKED with Dean.

.
The link is broken, but the article is wellknown here.


By ROSS SNEYD
Associated Press Writer

MONTPELIER, Vt. (AP) — Howard Dean may be many things, say those who worked with him over nearly a dozen years as Vermont governor, but an elitist liberal is hardly one of them.

He’s actually a lot more moderate — many would say conservative — than the reputation he’s built during his campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Many of the people who were his allies and adversaries in Montpelier over his 20-year political career have been quietly bemused by the liberal persona he’s built as he campaigns in Iowa and New Hampshire, especially through his outspoken opposition to the war in Iraq.

>>>>>>>

"I don’t think Howard Dean is the right target for that attack if you look at his record here in Vermont," said Eric Davis, Middlebury College political scientist.

Dean kept his distance from his party’s liberals during his governorship.
"He seemed to take glee in attacking us at every opportunity and using us as a way to form alliances with more conservative elements," said former state Sen. Cheryl Rivers, a leader of the state Democrats’ liberal wing and former chairwoman of the powerful Senate Finance Committee.

Dean fashioned himself a position in the political center of Vermont politics even as the state has moved steadily to the left.
>>>>>>>>

[Le Taz Hot]

27. I've got a problem with the pair up

and this has nothing to do with Clark the man/general/candidate. It has to do with what the Washington insiders will do to TWO Washington outsiders -- they'll tear them apart. We MAY be able to counter that if Dean fills his cabinet with insiders, but one way or another, and as abhorrent as these vermin are, Washington insiders do serve a purpose.

[FrenchieCat]

32. Who's going to tear Who up??????

Clark, the devastating 007 panther man will eat anyone up alive.....insider, outsider.......doesn't much matter....there is no worry when you are a heavyweight! and Clark will do it with a smile.:)

I'LL TAKE ONE BAD ASS IN THE BLACK, PLEASE

[Le Taz Hot]

48. I'm sorry,

but that's politically naive. Washington insiders are perfectly capable of throwing up roadblocks at every turn. From fundraisers (A-list invites) to the punditocracy to Congress. Clinton could handle it because he was Clinton and because he had Gore, an insider. Carter couldn't and they tore him apart from Day One, even WITH Mondale. This has nothing to do with Clark or Dean, it has to do with the way Washington works.

[Padraig18]

35. Count me in!

If Kerry, Gephart and Edawrds can form an alliance, so can we.

[Room101]

36. I agree and have been saying this for awhile

I want a DEAN/CLARK or CLARK/DEAN ticket. I'm a Dean guy who wishes Dean would stop criticizing Clark on the war, Clark is out their saying the war was wrong. The rest of the pack are pissed that their guys have had no traction as of yet.

[knight_of_the_star]

39. Since when

Have we Clarkies attacked Dean outside of defending our candidate in threads started by Deanies to flame out Clark?

[Padraig18]

41. FWIW...

... not all of us Deanies approve of that flaming. I have been attacked by fellow Dean supporters for my defending of Gen. Clark. Let's not paint with too broad a brush when discussing "Deanies", OK? :hi:

[unfrigginreal]

50. See post #12 n/t

[Larkspur]

43. Dean Yes, Clark No

I don't trust Clark and his lack of political experience will be an anchor around Dean's neck.

Dean needs someone who can help him negotiate the ins and outs of Congress. Clark is not it.

[Eloriel]

52. Okay, here's one research thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=408436#409330

Thanks to that friend I mentioned!! :hi:

Eloriel