Howard Dean Swings the Sword

[ThorsteinVeblen]

Dean is the only leader we have among weak, cowardly, sycophantic men.

If the Democratic Party could find the courage to lead this nation it would cut the umbilical cord the Republican Party has to the South.

Leadership takes more than posing on a Harley. Leadership takes more than enabling crazy, evil men in the Whitehouse Rose Garden. Leadership takes more than barely being able to wipe your ass. Leadership takes more than being a Vegetarian. Leadership takes alot more than looking like a muppet. And, yes, sadly, leadership takes more than being charismatic, inspirational and having the wittiest comments at debate.

Leadership takes risk, sacrifice and vision. The Democratic Party (including our incredible African American contingent) should become the Confederate Party.

The time has come to heal the rift.

The time has come for the South to embrace everything that was and is good about its heritage and come to terms with what was shameful. The time has come for the North to stop treating the South as its backwards, hick brother. The time has come for the South to put their foot down at the patronizing race card played by the Republican party. The time has come for Sharpton and Jackson to stop opening wounds whose time it has come to heal.

It is time.

Bring the country together. Lead this country out of pesimism. Lead this country out of devisiveness. Swing the sword. Cut the ties. Stop the bullshit. Now.

With a Rebel Yell.

[wtmusic]

1. Dayum, Thorstein's on a roll

I don't know about the 'weak, cowardly, sycophantic' part, but I do agree that Dean is the best leader and dammit, we need some leadership right about now

[BurtWorm]

2. I wouldn't go quite so far as to call it the Confederate Party.

I can't quite tell if you're presenting a sincere battle cry or very subtle satire. The Democrats don't have to grovel for Southern white male votes. The fact is, voting for the Democratic party is in most people's economic interest. It doesn't matter if you're Northern or Southern, male or female, white or black, anglophone or latino...by FAR, Americans live to be screwed by Republicans. Dean's point is that it's time for the Democratic party to stop being complicit in the screwing and to stand up and speak for most Americans. Make those Republican mofos back down or get out of the way.

We don't need a confederate party. We need a Democratic Party for all the people.

[Octafish]

3. He should have swung his sword during Vietnam

...when his country needed him.

But, no. Ho-Ho showed up with a note and an X-ray from his orthopedist stating he had a bad back and got classified 1-Y.

To celebrate, he spent 80 days that winter skiing in Vale, Colorado. He is reported to have loved the moguls -- the bumpy parts of the mountain.

For chump change, he poured concrete.

Meanwhile, some poor chump went into the armed forces in his place.

Some leader.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

4. Maybe he should have posed on a Harley.

Serving in Vietnam does not a leader make. In a lot of cases it destroyed men. Made them second guess themselves. Made them weak. Crushed them.

War is not something to brag about. Especially a shameful war. Why don't you go read "In the Lake of the Woods".

[Octafish]

10. True for lesser men. Not for John Kerry.

As a leader, John Kerry is tested in combat. Lt. Kerry rescued a man while under enemy fire and was wounded. Another time, Kerry jumped off his boat to chase and kill an enemy soldier who had aimed a rocket-propelled grenade at his boat.

When he came back from the war, Kerry did all he could to end it. He helped organize the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. He testified before Congress and made Nixon's Enemies List.

Where was Dean in all this? He must have been skiing.

[TLM]

32. Where was Dean.... Dean was saving lives... instead of killing people

because his brother was killed in laos. Dean was learnign to be a doctor and working in an emergency room in the Bronx, saving lives, not taking them. I think that makes him far more qualified as a leader.

Any dipshit with a gun can kill someone... and just because it happens in a war that doesn't make it heroic.


"Lt. Kerry rescued a man while under enemy fire and was wounded."

Kerry pulled a guy onto his boat after getting a cut on his arm from some shrapnel. His down time was two days. He got a purple heart for it. Then in the next 3 months he got two more purple hearts for injuries so minor he was never listed as unfit for duty. He then transferred out of combat. Leaving someone else to take his place.

"When he came back from the war, Kerry did all he could to end it. He helped organize the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. He testified before Congress and made Nixon's Enemies List."

Oh and don't forget how he used vets to launch his political career by letting vets think he tossed his own metals over the Whitehouse fence.

[BurtWorm]

5. What's Kerry going to do to get white southerners to stop

being suckers for the Republicans? What's he doing right now? Because it's now or never.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

7. That is right

You either stand up or shut up.

If you are interested in seeing Kerry the next president of the United State, get him off his goddman ass.

[Octafish]

8. Sen. Kerry will do more than talk about the Confederate flag.

Kerry has done more than talk about using the power of the Presidency to make life better for ALL Americans. Check out his website for details.

BTW: Because Kerry has actually led people in combat, the men and women in the south will respect Kerry as a leader. Again, that's more than just talking about it.

[BurtWorm]

11. Where's the beef?

He's already being painted as an aloof Massachusetts liberal from a wealthy family married to a Republican fortune. That's Rove's angle. How is he countering that?

[Octafish]

15. Here's a beef.

Al Sharpton wants to party with John Kerry's wife

Boston-AP -- Al Sharpton may be a minister, but Senator John Kerry still doesn't want him to get too cozy with Kerry's wife.
Democratic presidential candidates were asked by one of the young people at a Boston debate last night who they'd most like to "party with."

Al Sharpton said he'd like to hang out with Kerry's wife -- Teresa Heinz Kerry. So Kerry anwered the question by picking Sharpton. He says that's so he "can keep an eye on" his wife.

Congressman Dennis Kucinich also picked Sharpton.

Senator Joe Lieberman said he'd "like to party with the young lady who asked that question."

SOURCE:

http://www.wlox.com/Global/story.asp?S=1512143

[ThorsteinVeblen]

17. So now we know that Kerry

has a sense of humor. So does David Cross. Doesn't mean I want David Cross leading the goddamn country.

[BurtWorm]

18. I hope he's got more than that!

I really, really do.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

27. He doesn't.

Or else he would have shown it by now.

[mbali]

42. We've come a long way . . .

While we still have lots of problems to deal with in this country, this incident offered an encouraging reminder of how far we have come.

Just think about it. A black man - one of the two black candidates running for president whose blackness is hardly ever an issue in the race - turns to a United States Senator and announces on national television, "I want to party with your wife!" and everyone, including the Senator, simply crack up.

Not long ago, the only laughter anyone would have heard after such a remark would have been the whoops emanating from the lynch mob as they strung the brother up.

We may be taking one step backward for every two steps forward, but progress is progress.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

16. There it is again

Combat = Leadership.

That is bullshit. George Herbert Walker Bush proves it.

[Octafish]

24. One example does not constitute proof.

Here's an example of a man with a bad back who elected to join the United States Navy:



His name was John F. Kennedy. He commanded PT-109. Do you know his story of leadership?

You should. John Kerry models his leadership on JFK. Kennedy put his mission first, the safety of his men next, and his own hide last.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

25. Only fools fought in Vietnam

Brave men fought the US government.

Shameful wars demand resistance.

[TLM]

35. Kerry is not John F Kennedy

To compare Kerry' service to Kennedy’s is insulting to Kennedy.

Kerry got 3 purple hearts in 4 months and transferred out of combat, even though 2 of those were so minor he had no down time at all and the other one was two days down time.

[liberalnurse]

41. His back was injured in the

PT-109 gun fight......He would not of been accepted into the Navy if he had the back injury at enlistment.....

[TLM]

33. Oh you mean like Max CLeland?

"Because Kerry has actually led people in combat, the men and women in the south will respect Kerry as a leader"


The same way they respected Max Cleland's service?

[slinkerwink]

12. there are many with a fused vertabrae that can ski and do activities

the military didn't want Dean because of that fused vertabrae---they had reasons for not wanting that. So stop insinuating that Dean is a draft dodger because he sure as hell isn't when the military said, "No thanks, we don't want you because of your bad back"

[Octafish]

20. A miracle! Dean hiked the length of Vermont.

slinkerwink, I think Howard Dean is a great human being and I would vote for him should he be the Democratic candidate. But, with all DU respect, I disagree with you on questions of his character, leadership, and electability. You probably know his back was healthy enough to let him hike the entire length of his beautiful state. While that is something many people don't know, I'd bet two people who do know about it are named Rove and Bush. And it's a near-certainty they'd bring it up in 2004 should Dr. Dean be the nominee.

Green’ governor finishes hiking ‘green tunnel’

The Herald of Randolph
June 7, 2001

RANDOLPH, Vt. — Five very tired, very wet, very determined seventh-grade girls from Randolph, Vt., helped Gov. Howard Dean achieve a personal goal Monday — his own end-to-end trek of Vermont’s 250-mile-Long Trail.

In return, the girls got a note excusing them from the next day’s phys ed class at RUHS. The note was signed by a doctor — Dr. Howard Dean.

Nine students and leaders from the White River Craft Center set off with Gov. Dean at 8:30 a.m. from Route 242 near Jay Peak, headed north toward Canada.

The group had stayed overnight on the trail the previous evening, bedding down at the Laura Woodward Shelter. They wanted to be on hand bright and early when the governor arrived, intent on finishing the northernmost 13.3 miles of trail. It was the only section that Gov. Dean hadn’t hiked so far.

CONTINUED...

http://www.aldha.org/howdean.htm

There's even a nice picture.

[TLM]

36. LOL!!! Once agin, same question...

How is hiking more stressful on the back than boot camp and combat?


ALso what was the schedual of this hike? From the piece I get the impression that Dean was hiking only that last part of the trail, 13.3 miles, that he had not hiked yet and the kids met up with him, and also hiked the trail.

"The Craft Center group had planned to get off the trail after nine miles, where Route 105 crosses. Several of them, however, decided to continue with the governor for the remaining 4.3 miles to make sure he didn’t get lost. Nine hours after they started, they arrived at the Canadian border."

A nine hour 13 mile hike so stressful a pack of 7th graders was able to walk it with him.

Oh and they weren't he only ones...

"Also present on the governor’s trip were Paul Kendall of Braintree and several other members of the executive board of the Green Mountain Club. They briefed Gov. Dean on land use issues and pointed out (through the fog) the 3000-acre acquisition the Club just made to protect the west flank of the Trail near Jay Peak."


Do you even read the stories these quotes are from? Or do you just hope nobody else will bother to read the whole thing?

[JackRiddler]

22. That is pathetic...

Criticize Dean for taking the easy way out (using a health exemption instead of going for C.O. status, or running to Canada) but what "his country" most needed during Vietnam was MORE draft-dodgers, instead of all the brave idealists willing to have themselves shipped over there and kill or get killed. Kerry's the personally braver, but the best thing he ever did was when he came out and used his authority as a vet to say: STOP THE WAR.

[Octafish]

28. Pathetic is Dean did neither.

Dean failed to serve the country in another branch of the armed forces, which he may have been qualified to do. No one can tell, as the records have been destroyed and his orthopedist is deceased.

Nor did Dean take an active voice in protesting the war. I've found one reference to a story where he participated in a peace rally, but that's it.

So, why is that pathetic? It was the easy way out.

[TLM]

37. Dean's brother was killed in laos.

real easy...

[TLM]

26. Can you please explain why you think boot camp and combat...

are less stressful on the body and back than sking?

And are you claiming Dean does not have the disk problem which got him classified Y-1 at his draft induction?

[Octafish]

31. Why am I the subject of an inquisition?

Ask a doctor about a comparison between the rigors of boot camp and combat and skiing. Perhaps even more than what a Confederate flag conjures up for many, I know symbolically there's a real impression made by getting out of the draft for a bad back and then spending that winter skiing.

As far as my "claims:" I stated Dean showed up with a note and an X-ray from his doctor tating he had a bad back. My source is an article quoting Dean. Funny, for being a doctor, he had a hard time spelling his condition: spondylolysis. I guess he didn't have to think too much about it, skiing and all.

Vietnam Service Becomes Issue in Campaign

EXCERPT...

Dean was assigned No. 143 for 1970 - a number that was called up - but he was rejected after a physical in February of that year. In an interview with the AP, Dean said he had known since he was in high school that he had an unfused vertebra, a condition called spondylolysis.

SOURCE:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20031025/D7UDBJUG0.html

[BurtWorm]

34. I agree with you, Octafish, that Dean's military service record

could be used against him. I agree with you that Kerry's cannot be. But then why is Dean not afraid of going right to the very people who allegedly care so much about things like combat duty and talking about issues that might actually turn them on to him? Are people going to care more about purple hearts or straight talk. And never mind if you think Dean's straight talk is an act. If it turns people on to vote, do you think they'll really care if he skipped out on the draft because of a fused vertebrae? Do you think these very same combat-duty worshippers give a shit if Bush went AWOL or had his daddy sneak him into the guard over their very own heads?

[TLM]

38. Oh my god, now you're attacking him for spelling errors?

"Ask a doctor about a comparison between the rigors of boot camp and combat and skiing."

You're the one who made the claim that Dean's sking somehow means the military doctors were wrong and he was fit for combat. So clearly you must have medical knowledge of how sking is as stressful or more stressful on the back than combat.

Otherwise you're just bullshiting.



"Perhaps even more than what a Confederate flag conjures up for many,"

Quick one bullshit meme attack got shot down, jump to another...


"I know symbolically there's a real impression made by getting out of the draft for a bad back and then spending that winter skiing."

You mean being REJECTED at your draft induction and being rated Y1?


"As far as my "claims:" I stated Dean showed up with a note and an X-ray from his doctor tating he had a bad back. My source is an article quoting Dean. Funny, for being a doctor, he had a hard time spelling his condition: spondylolysis. "


What makes you think doctors don't mispell words? And what does that have to do with anything? Is this what you attacks are based on... Dean misspelled a word?

[Bucky]

6. Check your meds, amigo. . . :o)

Dean is the only leader we have among weak, cowardly, sycophantic men.

Weak like Sharpton, cowardly like Kerry, sycophantic like Clark. Uh-huh. You left off timid like Edwards, greedy like Gephardt, unprincipled like Kucinich, tongue-tied like Mosely Braun, and conformist like Lieberman.

If the Democratic Party could find the courage to lead this nation it would cut the umbilical cord the Republican Party has to the South.

It's been about 140 years since we've solved our problems with terrible swift swords. You might want to think about what you write before hitting that "Post Message" button, friend. I suggest you take another look at Dean, while you're at it. You seem to have him confused with Zorro.

Lead this country out of devisiveness. Swing the sword. Cut the ties.

Oh Lord. I suppose that would be the sword of anti-divisiveness, right?

[sangha]

9. And don't forget

we should be the Confederate Party. Yeah, that's what people are crying out for....the Confederacy!!

[ThorsteinVeblen]

14. Rebellion vs. The Empire

Which do you choose?

Take your bigotry and piss off. The government has always used race to keep the disadvantaged distracted. Why do you enable the government? Who do you think actually fought and died for the South in the civil war? I think Jefferson Davis ended his days drinking mint juplips on a veranda somewhere while honest men (who didn't own slaves) bleed the earth red.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

13. The Sword of anti-divisiveness:

"Oh Lord. I suppose that would be the sword of anti-divisiveness, right?"


The Sharp Sword of Prajna:

http://www.purifymind.com/SwordPrajna.htm

Iron vs. Copper:

http://www.kanzeon.nl/iron.html

The Sword book Reviews:

http://carmelnet.org/sword/v57n2/book.htm

On Being a Man (for Chrissakes be a fucking Man):

http://www.nzhealth.net.nz/wisdom/men.html

[bearfartinthewoods]

19. i think i'll wait for the action figure

complete with sword. or maybe the vid game,

sheesh.......

[shance]

21. Wonderful words Thorst***

You nailed it.

[alexwcovington]

23. OY OY OY

Three cheers for this man!

It is time, brother!

[spindoctor]

29. Oh, where to start?

"Dean is the only leader we have among weak, cowardly, sycophantic men."
If Dean made that remark, he'd get bitch slapped by Miss Mosely on the spot.

"If the Democratic Party could find the courage to lead this nation..."

<sarcasm>You nailed it there. It is lack of courage that cost us the 2000 elections.</sarcasm>

...it would cut the umbilical cord the Republican Party has to the South.

That cord is just as imaginary as your conclusions.

"...leadership takes more than being charismatic, inspirational and having the wittiest comments at debate..."

Yes, but it helps to have at least some of those qualities. Sword or not.

"Leadership takes risk..."

No, it takes decisiveness (as opposed to changing your mind on a dozen issues).

..."sacrifice..."

Yea, of others.

"...and vision."

Yup

"The Democratic Party (including our incredible African American contingent) should become the Confederate Party."

And we will all wave confederate flags together. A confederacy (for your information) is also used to describe a conspiracy. Poor choice.

"The time has come for the South to embrace everything that was and is good about its heritage and come to terms with what was shameful.

I refer you to your own following sentence.

"The time has come for the South to put their foot down at the patronizing race card played by the Republican party."

What ARE you talking about?

"The time has come for Sharpton and Jackson to stop opening wounds whose time it has come to heal."

WHO opened the wound?

"It is time."

Yep, bed time to be exact.

Goodnight.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

30. Transcend your hatred.

Transcend your fear. Watch "Monster's Ball" at least. Give up your bigotry. Refuse to answer historical bigotry in like. Be a better man then those that went before you. Lead. Embrace the future, not the past. Forgive.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

39. The Sword of Justice

[ThorsteinVeblen]

40. The Sword of Truth

[Adjoran]

43. Y'all be careful swinging all those swords around

Somebody could lose an eye like that!

It's hard to criticize Dean for not serving when the military rejected him. They have standards that often don't translate into civilian activities. The Army turned down Mickey Mantle because of his knees, but at the time, and maybe of all time (perhaps excepting Ty Cobb), he was the fastest man in the world to first base.

That said, his recent "outreach" hasn't done much to help in the south. No Democrat has EVER been elected President without carrying at least two southern states.

Our nominee has to be at least competitive in several southern states, to make the repubs spend resources there.

[incapsulated]

44. Please take you speech

To the street corner of you nearest black community and preach it.

Tell me what kind of reception you get.

I know what kind I would have for you.

:nuke: