Anybody know anything about Russian politcs?

[Classical_Liberal]

I am curious about Khodorkovsky. Soros, a billionare who contributes to liberal causes is supporting him and Soros says he is a "liberal" oligarch. He says Putin is going after Khodorkovsky to support those oligarchs that support the old robber baron methods. Italy's right wing Prime minister Berlusconi seems to support Putin in this endever and now I am a bit confused on the matter even though I would really like to see a crackdown on the oligarchs. Who should we liberals be siding with?

You can read more here. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=116&topic_id=2351

[incapsulated]

1. Read this..

I recently saw an interesting segment on this whole thing on the News Hour on PBS:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/europe/july-dec03/russia_10-28.html


Putin's "authoritarian drift"

MARGARET WARNER: Dmitri Simes, as you know Kremlin critics say this arrest was about a lot more than Khodorkovsky's financial dealings and that it was a sort of reflected what former CIA Director Jim Woolsey wrote about a month ago. He described it as Putin's authoritarian drift. Is there something to that?

DIMITRI SIMES: No. In order to have an authoritarian drift you presume democracy. In Russia we have a horrible system of corrupt capitalism and this system since Putin took over was raised on two columns....

MARGARET WARNER: Was what?

DIMITRI SIMES: Was raised on two pillars. One security people close to Putin, people from the former KGB and another group the oligarchs. Neither of them was really committed to democracy. What you see today is these two groups are going after each other and Putin increasingly attacking the oligarchs. One point: The Russian press, the Russian TV have described what has happened to Khodorkovky rather fully. There is certain freedom of the press in Russia at least so far.

MARGARET WARNER: What do you think about that, Professor Goldman, does this disclose his authoritarian bent?

MARSHALL GOLDMAN: I would say he's got the authoritarian bent. I'm a little nervous about it. Actually I would take issue with Dmitri about this. The Russian state television on Saturday really almost hid the fact that Khodorkovky had been arrested. The state channels show almost nothing but Putin on the news programs and later on get into some of these other issues. He's recently in this connection with the attack on Khodorkovky, they raided the offices and seized documents from one of the opposition political parties. There is gradually encroachment on these things. It's not that... here I would agree with Dmitri that Russia was really never a full blossoming democracy but the oligarchs have learned that if they attack Putin, they are indeed in trouble and two of them have already been sent overseas and if you look at the other members of the associates of Khodorkovky, two or three of them have already fled and the rest are trying to become members of the Dumas so they'll have political immunity

[readmylips]

2. Khodorkovky 40 yr old, oil multi-millionair...

One of Khodorkovky's advisor is Henry Kissinger, and his oil ties are with Texas oilmen/women. The bushies included.

It sounds as if Khodorkovky and his clan have been raping the Russian people and Putin put a stop to it. The people agree with Putin. Khodorkovky's US friends are defending their Russian interests and speaking out against Putin. Khodorkovsky, like little man bush, was looking into running for president and funding his own campaign with oil money that belongs to the Russian people.

[incapsulated]

3. That is not my take on it

I see Putin as stomping on anyone who is criticising him, supporting his rivals or stands in his way.

Putin is no democrat.

[Classical_Liberal]

6. How come Putin isn't going after the other oligarchs

why is right winger(Mousilini is his hero) Berlusconi supporting this. This makes me suspicious. One of the Russian English online papers says Khodorkovsky was running for prime minister under the communists who have morphed in to western european social dems, and that is the opposition party he contributed money to.

[solinvictus]

4. Russia

Khodorkovsky, Boris Berezhovsky, and the Oligharchs have raped Russia of wealth and natural resources. Putin should have them quietly shot in basements as examples to white collar criminals. Of course, I believe the same for our own Ken Lay.
Addendum: Ditto for Soros, who attempted to ruin the Pound Sterling in a dispute with the Labor government.

[Classical_Liberal]

8. I'm not into the death penalty

What if Khodorkovsky is like a russian Martha Stewart. In otherwords they are going after him for being left wing rather than right wing? Putin wounldn't be President without the oligarchs.

[incapsulated]

9. Putin, why not a bullet for him?

He's a war criminal as far as I'm concerned. But who gives a shit about the Chechens, right?

I'm not defending the Oligarchs. But I'm not siding with Putin, either. It's a purely political move and has nothing to do with "corruption" no matter what he says.

[Sufi Marmot]

5. A pox on both their houses...

Who should we liberals be siding with?

Neither, IMHO. The oligarchs stole/bribed their way into wealth as the Soviet Union fell apart, whereas Putin seems to be a frustrated authoritarian (he can't go too far or else the West gets cranky and investment in Russia declines...) Both are going to act only in their own self interest, rather than for the good of Russia, IMHO...

-SM

[DUreader]

11. I agree, both are corrupt

[Bamm Bamm]

7. You are invited to join us at Pravda.

http://engforum.pravda.ru/

I post there as BammBamm.

If you join our forum, tell 'em Bamm sent ya.

Welcome.

[Bamm Bamm]

12. I sincerely hope that I've not violated this forums rules.

Many of you would probably enjoy the diverse group of folks at Pravda.

If we're not supposed to mention any competing discussion boards here at DU, then please accept my apology. If not, then we'd love to have you as a member.

There are a few posters there who could give some valuable insight into Russian politics, I'll wager.


Bamm

[newyawker99]

18. Hi Bamm Bamm!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[fabius]

13. Pravda's cool.

Go to any post by Atossa for an erudite analysis of the situation.

:P

[Classical_Liberal]

14. Thanks for the invite but I guess I'll decline

It looks like usenet. Bunch of antisemites and freepers, verbally abusing the sane.

[Bamm Bamm]

16. That's a shame, Classical_Liberal.

One neat feature at Pravda is the ability to search a given poster's threads. It's very handy in determining a person's mindset.

Is there a similar feature here, by chance?

[DUreader]

17. You can do that here

You must be a contributing member, a very minimal contribution

[legin]

10. A good link that someone posted a couple of days ago

http://www.engology.com/eng5khodorkovsky.htm

[fabius]

15. I'm not fond of Khodorkovsky and oligarchs but...

Russia is getting more and more authoritarian, kinda like fascist-lite. No free press. Rigged elections. Not a good thing. Sorta like Bush-Merika in fact.

I'd like to see Ken Lay prosecuted under the rule of law and sent to do hard time in the Texas state pen :evilgrin: