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Is there room for both African-Americans and white Southerners in the DP?

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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 12:27 AM
Original message
Is there room for both African-Americans and white Southerners in the DP?
Suppose the Democratic Party takes the position that no vote can be written off and makes a strictly economic appeal to white Southerners along the lines of "What has the GOP done for you lately?" Suppose it continues to debate this strategy of unraveling Nixon's Southern strategy in public fora and to make the case for white Southerners to return to the party. Can the Democratic Party succeed in winning with a message about class interests that cuts across race interests, that transcends the kind of politics Republicans have exploited since 1964, a politics that has ripped the party apart and redrawn the electoral map?

How can Democrats pursue class-based appeals without getting mired in their party's messy race-based history? Can the wounds around race be healed within the party? Isn't this what must be done if the touted Democratic majority is to re-emerge? Or should the party accept the ground the Republicans have taken in the South because of that history?

My own feeling is that if there is no room for both, if the issue cannot become class rather than race in the South (or among working and middle class whites who vote Republican against their economic interest no matter where they live), then we should stick with the friends we have.

But we might have to prepare ourselves to write off regaining control of Congress and state legislatures.
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Alenne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. Of course
just appeal to poor whites, northern or southern. But you don't have to bring confederate flags into the discussion. If you mean poor whites than say poor whites.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. The words "confederate flag" completely undermined the argument
I think Dean is trying to make. "What has the Republican Party done for you lately?" is Dean's question, and it's an economic--i.e., class-based question.

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Alenne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. He undermined his own argument
Edited on Sun Nov-09-03 02:14 AM by Alenne
He should have just said "What has the Republican Party done for you lately?"

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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Absolutely!
He has one or two marbles missing and a big toe in his big mouth.
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. We'll never know if we don't try
Edited on Sun Nov-09-03 12:33 AM by Rowdyboy
And we've never tried.

How can we remain Democrats and NOT make class-based appeals?
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candy331 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Appeal to people
on their basic needs and suvival. People are mostly self interested and will respond when they see what is in it for them The US regardless as to whether anyone wants to face it is in jeporadly of self destructing. Destruction from within is what brought down most prior world powers. It seems to me it is better to work together and turn it around or allow ourselves to be divided by others self interests and go off the cliff. I see the repugs and sadly some Dems as totally self absorbed and would rather sink the ship rather than let others benefit and that is the pity of it.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Great question, Rowdyboy.
America has the only Left in the world that has abandoned the issue of class. That might explain why America is the only major country in the world with a Left as ineffective as ours.

The beauty of class as a political issue is that it makes it possible to build coalitions between groups of people who are culturally very different. That's why the economic elites have always feared it so much and why American Leftists, until about thirty years ago, embraced it.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. And when the GOP starts moaning and whining about class warfare
a truly progressive Democratic Party should say right back, "That's right, plutocrats. And we aim to win it!"
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Exactly! There is class warfare in this country
and it's the plutocrats who are waging it against the other 99% of us.

Why do people think it is that even timid remarks about class inspire the whole Republican mediawhore machine to scream in unison about "class warfare"?

Because they know that issue can destroy them!
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. We don't seem to be able to come together
the way our fathers etc did...
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Because there's no one who is making sure people come together.
Or there doesn't seem to be anyone. Clinton might have been able to, but he certainly did not. Oddly enough, he behaved like a conservative white Southern Democrat in some respects, but conservative white Southern Democrats hated his guts and fled the party and African-Americans embraced him as one of their own!
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. As a nation we are less class-conscious than we once were.
The Right has relentlessly promoted the idea that there is no such thing as a class. This is obviously to their advantage.

The "New Left" promoted the notion of a "cultural Left" that centered race and gender while ignoring or rejecting class. (Many "New Leftists" even argued that affluent college kids were the real revolutionary vanguard, while blue-collar workers were the forces of reaction.)

So we now live in a nation where the average person gives about as much thought to class inequity as my Dalmatian does.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
4. We should be having the biggest
tent in the history of tentdom! There are a lot of People out there
who need to be involved with "The Power Of The People"..and that's how we are going to "Take Our Country Back".

I don't "accept" anything the repugnants have historically done..this is a new era!
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
7. We have to transcend single issues to win
I'm in a football mood, so I'll bring up the Dallas Cowboys when they were last hot. They had Emmit Smith, and other teams feared him, so they centered games around him. Bad choice, because we also had Alvin Harper, who could go deep and burn you while you were covering Emmit. So teams dropped someone back to cover the deep threat, and focused the rest on Smith. Bad. Irvin would go down the sidelines and kill you. So you double team Irvin, double team Harper, and focus the rest on the line to stop Smith. Then Novacek would turn from blocker to receiver and hurt you over the middle, and if you covered him, Johnson would do it. And if you covered Smith at the line, Novacek and Johnson over the middle, Harper deep, and Irvin down the field, you'd leave some third stringer open somewhere, and Aikman could hit him and hurt you, too. You couldn't cover it all.

It wasn't one player, it wasn't one strategy. It was the diversity. And the coach with the leadership to use it.

We need a leader who can handle the whole game, not one who keeps trying to decide which faction to appeal to. The Cowboys played much the same no matter who their opponent was, because they weren't concerned with the opponent, only with how they played. We need that. We need to worry about what we can do for America, and quit worrying about what we can do for each group we want to make happy.

We need a leader who can say "Here's an economic plan to enrich everyone. Here's a social policy that provides real justice to everyone. Here's a foreign policy that will keep us safe yet honor the rights of other nations and peoples. Here's a corporate policy that protects jobs but also protects workers and the environment. We don't care what the other guy is offering, because it isn't as good as what we are offering. We aren't trying to be all things to all people, we are just trying to handle the big picture in a way that benefits all people. Vote for us if this is what you want."

Then the little issues go away. Then the Southern white males with confederate bumper stickers say "Finally someone who cares about me," and the black voters in the same state say the same thing, and it is true for both.

Here in Austin I was talking to a campaign strategist for the 2002 election, and he was talking about the county-wide plan. They were going to do mailout to those who had voted Democrat in one of the last three elections, and they were going to do GOTV in heavily minority districts, and they were going to put out hangers in the traditional Democratic strongholds. Etc. All good plans, all basic campaign management 101. But no one was going to worry about the message. Didn't really occur to them. So I asked "Since we lost the last three elections, wouldn't we want to call more than just the people who supported Democrats in the past three elections?" Really seemed to catch them off gaurd.

Too much strategy. Too many factions. Not enough leadership. You can't throw all the strategy and planning out the window, but it is there only to supplement our message. Without a winning message, it means nothing. That's the part that's missing.

And I don't see it in any of the candidates running now. I keep hoping to, but so far I don't.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
13. There was room when Clinton and Carter ran. Each of them won at least
5 southern states.

They had the right message.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
14. yes but there is no room for the confederate flag
that is the issue
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. And that, is incredibly
sad
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
18. 'messy' race based history????
How do we heal the wounds that our 'messy' fight against racial discrimination caused? Is that what you're saying?
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Yeah, sure I'm saying that!
:eyes:

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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
20. Ask Huey Long.....
Of course there is.

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