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Edwards on MTP: strong performance, strong convictions, very likeable.

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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 11:33 AM
Original message
Edwards on MTP: strong performance, strong convictions, very likeable.
Timmie threw EVERYTHING at him, and Edwards threw it back. He proved himself to be a candidate I think Americans will see as someone who truly cares about the American people and will always try to do what is right for them.

I disagree with Edwards on the Iraq war vote, but I also feel strongly that the scenario would never have unfolded as it has under an Edwards Presidency. He would be a President who would be able to talk to - and listen to other world leaders - unilateral action would never be needed.

I also think Edwards showed that he could bring the country together again - he's not looking to convince this group or that region that he knows what's best for them: he's talking to people, to voters, sharing his ideas, with the conviction that they'll agree with him.

I was really impressed with his straightforwardness, his thoughtfulness. I think Russert was too.

Look forward to seeing Clark on next week.

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yaledem Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. My thoughts exactly
JRE kicked some serious butt.
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DUreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. duplicate thread, link here:
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topdog08 Donating Member (235 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Duplicate my ass
How do you say strong performance on MTP and Edwards is a walking contradiciton are duplicates.... Why should we promote the walking contradiction thread instead of this more accurate one?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. "Ambulance Chasing Shenanigans"???
Are you a FReeper or something??? Don't slander Mr. Edwards!
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. You are sadly prejudiced and wrong about Edwards.
Yes he has made money as a trial lawyer, but it's because he was damn good at it.

He took on sleazy corporations and WON. He's been fighting through the system for little people.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mbali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Another example
of a Dean supporter NOT attacking other candidates.

We should all bookmark this one to cut and paste the next time a Deanie whines about their candidate being criticized.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. mbali, I don't think our newcomer is a Dean supporter either
It's just a cute "disguise." One of his/her other posts referred to the 9 candidates as "little dwarfs." The moderators have been alerted.
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mbali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Thanks n/t
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kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Go back under the bridge, troll
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. "ambulance-chasing" ?
that's the term used by right winger big corporate whores to smear those standing up for victims rights. when big corporate whores rip off or do harm to consumers the whores don't want consumers to fight back so they smear the people who help them like john edwards by calling them things like "ambulence chasers". i hate that term as it's used to attack mostly good people and to cover up the crimes of the bad guys.
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jenk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
11. I agree, anything to raise his profile helps
go edwards!
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kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. Edwards is awesome
Saw him speak in person on two occasions. He has a ton of charisma.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. I agree with you too. I thought he handled Timmy
Edited on Sun Nov-09-03 12:17 PM by spooky3
much better than most people do. Russert asked some good questions and but Edwards responded well. Russert eventually got tired of hearing the same position repeated consistently and moved on--that's exactly the way you have to deal with Timmy.

I like Edwards, but disagree with him on some issues. But he does strike me as smart, honest, more than competent, and consistent.
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topdog08 Donating Member (235 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. this is what I was thinking, too
I was waiting for a gut check moment (like the Dean supporters felt on Tuesday night) but it never arrived. John even answered my own questions about the amendments to the Patriot Act. Edwards was ready for every question, and if you ask me cutting to the last ten minute segment was Russert raising the white flag. Russert gave up.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Smart, honest, competent, consistent. And the charisma.
Very few voters agree with their candidate on all the issues. You have to look at the total package - and whether you think the candidate will do the right thing in office, based on his issues, ideas and history.

I think John Edwards is a terrific candidate.
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leyton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Would cream Bush in a debate.
I've said this before - Edwards, with his manner and his down-to-earthness, plus his consistent message, would cream Bush in a debate. Some of the other Democrats would do well too, of course, but Edwards would not only outdebate Bush but he would look good doing it.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. agreed
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. It isn't enough just to be better than Bush. You have to be, like 500%
better.

Edwards, I think, could be 500% better than Bush.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
18. The annoying thing about Russert is that the entire purpose of the show
is to draw out contradictions within a politician's own statements.

I think Edwards did well in pointing out how his Iraq War position wasn't contradictory. I think he still hasn't hit on the perfect message for the Patriot Act, but I think if you look at what he said, it's still smart and coherent.

The thing that I don't like though is that when you hit a home run, it's barely noticed.

Did Russert draw out a contradicition in the tax/economy questions? No. How about the question about the difference between not liking Bush personally and not liking his policies?

A victory is defined in terms of not contradicting yourself.

It's such a bizarre format.

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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. I think this is legitimate if PART of the format but agree
it shouldn't be all of it. A good candidate handles that quickly and then takes the opportunity to refocus the attention to how he/she differs with Bush on key issues and what s/he proposes.

Russert is just trying to set up "good TV", i.e., watching a phony who can't think on his/her feet well stumble. Too bad he doesn't have an equal commitment to using the same format with Cheney et al.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
22. I must have seen a different interview
I thought he looked out of his league, tepid, contradictory on Iraq and acting like this presidential run is a vanity play.

And I'm from the South.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Here are all the Qs and As...
...which ones didn't you like?

It would be fun to discuss the specifics.


E opens with a statement that SH was a threat. Support not having SH in power. Don't support the blank check.

R: but that disarms troops. What next?
E: He'd have to come back with bill not loaded with pork, and he'd have to come up with a plan that worked.

R: Your hometown paper calls 87 bil vote as desperate blah blah blah
E: That isn't true. This message is consistent.

R: What would you do in Iraq?
E: Asking for ssistance without relinquishing control is what B is doing wrong. UN in. Use NATO force. Need to present Iraq as international effort moving toward Iraqi self rule.

R: French don't want to participate. What if NATO says no? Pull out?
E: France will want to participate. We won't have to pull out. The case for this action was not made to UN, Nato the way it should have been. This region of world is vital to Europe. Not going to let it go to seed.

R: More troops in Iraq?
E: McCain's perspective, I understand. I'd give deference to generals who say they don't need more troops. But for security, like to see more. Need to be international.

R: Where to find more troops?
E: Ok, here's the perfect example of what's gone wrong. The Turkish fuck up. If we had made the case right, and if we do, we will get the international face needed for success.

R: should B apologize to FR?
E: No. we need to go to ALL our friends and make the argument for Iraq being foothold of democracy in ME, etc.

R: If they say no, we're there alone?
E: They won't say no.

R: Lead up to war. IWR. Quotes E's statement. You believed nuclear threat. And you got booed in Cal.
E: A decade of efforts by SH, senate intelligence committee had a ton of info on this. About booing, I think it's enormously important for candidates to stand behind what they believe in, even if they know the audience will not be receptive.

R: Blank check?
E: no.

R: Where are WMD's
E: The intelligence we were given has been born out. Now we have an enormous responsibility to look into discrepency. Need to find out cause. Were we mislead. Incompetence. Misleaders will be held accountable. If our intelligence gathering is inadequate, we neee to fix that or we're really fucked.

R: Quotes statement about WMD. Why weren't you more demanding for evidence of nuclear threat.
E: You can't pick any one isolated piece of evidence. We had a decade worth of evidence nobody is talking about.

R: But without evidence, what was the threat?
E: We knew he was trying to acquire weapons. Unique threat, obvious and serious.

R: France wanted more inspecitons. Should inspections have gone on.
E: We don't have benefit of hindsight. I did what I thought was right at the time. We've lost lives in a cause which I thought was right. I will not say this isn't important ... so long as this ends up in Democracy.

R: Was march the right time to invade?
E: Timing was Bush's choice. I would not have done this the way Bush did. I would have built the coalition. But I still stand by what I did.

R: Patriot Act. CBC debate quote: advocate revision of patriot act. Wash Post wrote editorial criticized your vote on the act. called it a good bill. voted against all four Fiengold amendments. You're ignoring your record. Do you regret your vote.
E: There are provisions (information sharing, techology updating, money laundering) that NEVER get talked about which are good. These are teh ones that are bad: sneak and peeks without DP protection, ability to go into libraries and book stores without DP protections. Step back. This is abigger issue. Arresting Americans on American soil without any DP, which contradicts foundations of American civi liberties. Change these

Russ was imposing on national gov't that they meet state law requirements. We need national legislation. Response was not to have Feds have to meet 50 different procedural requirements.

R: JD has never actually sought records from libraries. It's wrong for you to say it has been done.
E: We don't know what the JD has done and the JD has admitted that they've been "in touch with libraries." They won't say what their authority was. It's a chilling effect. Needs to change.

R: Biden, Feinsteing say it's good. Has anyone complained to you about PA.
E: There are 34 reported abuses to Inspector General.

R: Is it wrong to vote 87 bil, to criticize PA to make yourself more palitable.
E: I've never wavered. I stand by what I've done, and I've been consistent.

R: Is the economy good?
E: short term up a little. All long term indicators are down.

R: tax policy working?
E: I can't tell you how much I care about taxes, and it really distinguishes me from the other candidates. Bush is doing something very radical ... shifting burden on to middle class in a very dramatic way. Not fair and it's very bad economic policy. To grow the economy, we have to take the burden OFF the middle class.

R: how much would you repeal?
E: repeal breaks for top two brackets. Raise cap gains rate for people earning in top (2) brackets. Get rid of corporate subsidies.

R: Your vote for 92 tax cut
E: that wasn't the vote on teh components. That was a vote on the framework. When the framework was filled in, the components shifted the burden to the middle class.

R: so you would support a tax cut?
E: back then the situation was completely different. And there are things we could have done, cuts which would have increased wealth, encouraging saving. these are things we need to do now.

R: balance budget how?
E: Not only do things I just told you. Bigger picture: we have to reduce defecit, but he have to make investments which result in long term growth, and those two things are at odds. We need to increase spending where it produces long term growth.

R: balance budget by raising taxes?
E: taking burden off middle class, means lower taxes. But people who are doing really well might have to take up some of the slack (but we'll have a wealthier society as result).

R: Dean's opt-out on public funding?
E: I'm staying with campaign finance system. Dean is making a mistake. Sending exactly the wrong signal. If it's a matter of principle to stay within the system and we should deviate.

R: what do you think about Dean?
E: Like him personally. We've had run-ins. I've expressed myself to him publicly and personally on these issues. On flag - repeats the Sharpton-Edwards analysis. Condescension and elitism is very dangerous for Democrats. All Democrats want to be treated with respect, not be talked down to.

R: Flag to You?
E: devisive symbol.

R: convicted felons get vote back?
E: of course. do the time. once out. get your rights back.

R: trial lawyers? 51% of your money came from law firms. JD looking into allegations.
E: There was ONE incident MONTHS ago in Little Rock. I'm proud of my work as lawyer fighting important battles agains negligent corporations. I'm supported by people who appreciate those battles and that kind of work. The other half of money is from all types of people. I do agree with weeding out claims without merit.

R: Gun manufacturer liablity?
E: I'm against limits and it has nothing to do with being a lawyer. No class of anybody should get special treatment.

R: Gay adoption yes, CU a state matter? Why reservations?
E: CU is a state law issue. But it's very important that Fed Gov't recognizes that all people get same protections under federal law (ie, where Fed Gov't confers benefit to married people, it should be conferred domestic partners).

R: Full faith and credit for overseas gay marriages (eg Canada)
E: Up to states. If it were my state, probably say no 'cause don't support gay marriage.

R: abortion and gun control?
E: different. Gun control: interstate commerce angle makes it a national concern.

R: you're the top spender in IA and NH, but you're in 4th place in IA and tied for 3rd with other in NH and you're way behind.
E: I've seen more polls than just these two. I'm moving up dramatically in all the polls I've seen. And I'm in the lead in SC and very close to top in OK. My bus trip in NH has been great.

R: You're behind Clark in SC?
E: In only one poll. I'll win SC.

R: You don't like the president.
E: Guy has no contact with regular Americans. Comes from a different background, which explains lack of perspective. I'm out among the people daily. He's never out there. He's pretending that he understands people.

R: what do you think people think of your attacking him?
E: look at the guy. I'm telling the truth about him. "jobless recovery"? Come on! These people are out of touch.

R: ecoomy or war on iraq aside, people like Bush as a person.
E: I don't know him. He seems personable enough. But when it comes down to voting, it's going to come down to more than just liking a guy. This guy is going to have a miserable record to run on. Lost jobs AND has driven us into defecit, which is quite a remarkable feat.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
23. You just saw the message that will win the election
in my opinon.

He has the logical message about Iraq, which will click with a majority of voters. He has a logical message about the Patriot Act. He has the BEST, MOST LOGICAL argument about taxes and the budget. And he just said exactly what needs to be said about disliking Bush: this isn't about personality (which many DU'ers seem to ignore about their own candidates), it's about policy, and Bush's policies suck and are enough reason not to like him, whether you think you know his personality or not.

(This is post #108 in the other thread. I thought it'd get more attention here. Maybe not.)
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. As always, AP, you hit the nail on the head. The message and the man.
That's why I think Edwards is the strongest candidate, along with possibly Clark. He has a message and a personal appeal that will win over all kinds of voters - a majority of Americans.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
26. Absolutely Not
A pathetic performance on every account. An "F".
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topdog08 Donating Member (235 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Now your just mad because of the other thread
Face it. Edwards did great, even if you disagree with him 100%.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. This is what a disaster he was
If by some highly unlikely freak of nature, all the other candidates dropped out in homage to Edwards and he was crowned the nominee, I wouldn't vote for him out of personal revulsion.
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mbali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Hardly proof that he was a disaster ...
Just proof that you hate him.

Sounds like a personal problem.
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Rooktoven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #28
36. Proof you are a republican
Get thee away from me satan.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
30. Edwards has grown the most, and
and I'd say Clark, also is finding his political legs.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Edwards is hitting his stride.
nt
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
33. Link to the MTP transcript for those who missed it.
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leyton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
34. post deleted
Edited on Sun Nov-09-03 08:56 PM by leyton
<post deleted>
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Scott Lee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
35. Then why is"Mr. Straightforward" attacking Dean - AGAIN?
Over the confed flag flap?

Hey Johnny boy...that one's over. Kaput. Done with. Finis.

Are you going to be crying over this to your grandchildren?



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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Are YOU going to be crying over this to your grandchildren?
Geez. Edwards is not attacking Dean - he's taking up for his peeps.
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