Kerry uses footage of President Bush on carrier in campaign ad

[Karmadillo]

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20031110/APN/311100951

MARSHALLTOWN, Iowa --
Democrat John Kerry on Monday unveiled a television commercial featuring images of a flight-suited President Bush declaring an end to major combat in Iraq, with an announcer asking what Democrat can challenge the commander in chief.

When Bush landed on the deck of the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln on May 1, many Democrats figured that the president would use the dramatic footage in his re-election campaign.

Kerry is the first of the nine Democratic presidential candidates to try to turn the tables on Bush, showing the aircraft landing amid growing doubts about the Iraq war, the failed search for weapons of mass destruction and an increasing number of U.S. dead.

In the ad, Bush is shown congratulating troops on the carrier as an announcer describes Kerry as "a leader on national security, a decorated combat veteran" who can take on Bush on national security issues with more credibility than his rivals.

more...

[robbedvoter]

1. Good move! That's an add I'll enjoy seing!

[killbotfactory]

2. Deja vu

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/bush/articles/2003/11/08/to_dean_a_bush_image_is_fodder?mode=PF

[HazMat]

3. Dean can't beat Bush on the national security argument

His criticisms would have little effect in a general election. Dean (draft dodger who went skiiing) can't hit Bush for going AWOL, for being a chickenhawk, for having little foreign policy experience, etc.

Then they're all of Dean's "Hamas are soldiers" and "Saddam gone.. I guess it's a good thing" type of comments. And the fact that Dean is seen as an unstable, raging anti-war leftist by the mainstream. Not exactly commander in chief material.

On the other hand, Kerry is a decorated veteran with loads of experience. He is the only Democrat (and maybe Clark) who can beat Bush on national security. If you can't beat Bush on national security you can't beat Bush.

[slinkerwink]

4. DEAN IS NOT A DRAFT DODGER!!!!!!!!!!!!

for heaven's SAKE......Dean is not a draft dodger----he has a fused vertabrae which kept him from military service because the military told him not to serve because of his fused vertabrae.

Just get your facts straight....but then you don't care anyway.

[Scott Lee]

10. Dean must have done great today - record hate posts on DU!

That's a good way to measure his successes these days. Listen for the increasing shrillness of the shrieks from the monkey cage.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

19. Good luck explaining that after Rove does for you

yep.... lots of luck indeed.

[Hep]

31. No problem!

Rove's got nothing on Dean with that angle. Dean showed up when he was called. That's more than chimpy did.

[alcuno]

35. Dean was seen by military doctors who said "no" to his eligibility

That's very different from the son of a wealthy politician whose father arranged for him to be in the cadillac of national guard units only to have said son go missing for one year of his required service to the country; likely for the use of illegal, and brain damaging, substances.

Howard Dean has known the loss that comes from armed conflict. Back when he was in his twenties, his brother was kidnapped and murdered by militants while in Cambodia. This is a life-altering event that doesn't come from the bottom of a bottle.

I don't believe that it is necessary to have served in the military in order to be POTUS. In fact, our founding fathers made civilian leadership OVER the military a priority in this country.

However, I do believe that leadership as well as life experience are necessary to do the job. The American people are paying a very heavy price for a president with neither of those things.

[Skwmom]

53. He went skiing, did construction work and as disclosed in the rock

the vote debate had a great time partying. This won't pass the smell test in the general election.

[Hep]

56. Not YOUR smell test

maybe, but it's all very simple. Either it isn't a big deal, or anyone who wasn't fit to serve in Vietnam was wrong if they enjoyed any aspect of their lives from that point on.

When will this talking point actually HAVE a point? Never. Again, nothing is offered here. The question, "How should it have all played out for Dean" will remarkably go unanswered.

[Zero Gravitas]

37. C-in-C material ?

Well the Former Texas Governor has set that bar so low that even "an unstable, raging anti-war leftist" could be seen as a better choice than the current office holder. IF Dean did really go skiing at least thats better than pulling string to get into the TANG and pretending to serve all the while doing vast quantities of cocaine and then desserting.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

39. an unstable, raging anti-war leftist

will never be seen as a better choice, hence my problem with Dean.

[Hep]

42. Your problem with Dean

is that you subscribe to misperceptions. At least get it right.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

46. That "misperception" is right where Dean will land

in the eyes of many- thanks to Dean himself and Karl Rove. You see Karl's fairly crafty but he needed material to work with- and Dean has provided plenty.

[Hep]

48. Yeah

if you get YOUR way. But hey, to what degree you're willing to stand on Roves side of the debate is YOUR business.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

49. I want to be on the winning side of the debate

and I'm afraid Dean leaves us vulnerable.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hep]

63. I want to be on the CORRECT SIDE of the debate

'nuff said.

[Zero Gravitas]

43. The Monkey-King

C'mon Dean "leftist" image or not has to be seen as a better choice by the "center" than Bush*. Surely even the most TV-addled among us are starting see how reckless and dangerous the current unilateralist approach is.

[bushisanidiot]

51. Dean Showed Up, Was Examine, and Was Turned Away By The Military

is that supposed to mean Dean has to keep his feet up all his life? He reported for duty when his number was called. But, due to a back condition which showed up on an X-ray taken at his draft physical, he received a 1Y deferment, which kept him from being drafted except in times of national emergency. If called up, Dean would have served.

AWOL, the chimp in chief, is the one who went hiding. People like John Kerry and Al Gore were dodging bullets in vietnam while the chimp was hiding, under protection of his CIA dad, so the poor little baby wouldn't have to go fight.

[ModerateMiddle]

54. getting the facts straight

is what someone in this thread requested. I think that's a good idea.

You said:

due to a back condition which showed up on an X-ray taken at his draft physical

Uh, no. Dean brought those x-rays TO the draft physical. Military physicals definitely do NOT include back x-rays. At that particular period of time, I think the physicals consisted of little more than a mirror under your nose to verify you were breathing.

Dean took his x-rays and a note from his (now unavailable) doctor to his draft physical and told THEM that he was unable to serve.

[Hep]

58. Since you appear to hold the Key to Truth

Tell me this. Should a doctor performing a physical NOT have all pertinant information? Are you saying Dean was WRONG to provide information for a MEDICAL EXAM that the examining doctor might not have had?

None of you EVER say how this should have worked out, and it's because you have NO IDEA. You know you can't say that Dean should have insisted on serving. You know you can't say that Dean should have never done anything fun for the rest of his youth because of being declared 1Y. You have nowhere to go from here.

Unless you're going to claim that Dean's back problem is a lIE, you're just making yourself look bad.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

62. The pertinent information on Dean and the draft:

1. He didn't want to serve.
2. He made sure he was 1Y so he didn't have to.

Nothing wrong with that, but I do take exception to this statement from Dean:

"The United States government said this is your classification," he said on NBC's "Meet the Press." "I'm not responsible for that. I didn't have anything to do with the decision. That was their choice."

didn't have anything to do with it? Why, he most certainly did. He's the one who brought the x-rays to make sure of it.

A back condition wins Dean a Vietnam-era draft deferment

[Hep]

64. You can't gauge intent

How many people do you think went into their physicals with plans to get deferred but failed?

If you are saying he LIED about being hurt, then come out and say it. To claim that he "made sure" he was 1Y makes it sound like he hurt himself to get out of the war. Is that what you intend to allege? Remember you have a keen sense of right and wrong. What's your goal?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

65. Desired result seems to indicate the intent

I can't see the proof Dean 'wanted to serve' but if you want to try and make that arguement fine by me and I wish you lots of luck.

Dean: "I didn't have anything to do with the decision"

While it is true Dean didn't make the actual decision, he certainly went out of his way to make sure his back problem was known. Had Dean not brought the x-rays and physician's letter, his back condition would have remained unknown, and he would have passed his physical. His bringing them was the 'thing' he had to do to get disqualified.

And I didn't say he lied about getting hurt. He had a legitimate back problem. However, it wasn't debilitating, and it didn't prevent him from skiing.

[bushisanidiot]

60. Sorry, That Was The Quote I saw.

another quote:

"Dean was called in for the physical and received the deferrment. He didn't dodge the draft or use his daddy's connections to get a sweet spot in the National Guard. In addition, he didn't go AWOL or desert his post in Alabama like our current "Commander" in Chief. I find it hypocritical of the So-Called-Liberal-Media to be making such hay out of Dean's government assigned deferrment when they didn't bother to even question Bush. Not only did he desert his unit, but he refused to release an unedited copy of his DD214 (discharge papers) like McCain and Gore did in 2000. So really, if the SCLM wants to go there, I say "bring it on". Dean fulfilled the draft request and was refused. Bush got his daddy to get him a spot in the national guard, then didn't bother to fulfill his obligation."

regardless of whether dean took a note from his doctors to the draft physical, it was still up to the united states military to examine him and decide whether he was fit for service. the military turned him down. btw, the only sites I can find that say dean took a note and x-rays from his doctor to the physical are right wing sites..

[Hep]

61. What did you expect

Who do you think candidate bashers allign themselves with in their bashing?

[blm]

5. If Dean's hadn't been filmed and Kerry's is out, it's more likely the Dean

camp heard about Kerry's ad being filmed and rushed this story out to run interference. You can fool some of the people some of the time.

[charlie]

20. From Nov 4 NYTimes

Meanwhile, Republicans said that it was increasingly unlikely that Bush would use the footage of his "Top Gun" landing on the carrier in a campaign commercial.

But would the Democrats consider using it in an attack ad?

"Yes," said Jim Margolis of GMMB, who is making television commercials for the presidential campaign of Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts.

Taipei Times Reprint

Bush's carrier landing is turning into his Dukakis In a Tank moment. I'm sure all the candidates have considered using it. In any case, this article's date precedes the Boston Globe's.

[JohnKleeb]

6. I thought you guys were still in filming

Seems like they could have had this for a while imo.

[Karmadillo]

8. Deja vu? When did you see Dean's ad?

n/t

[Scott Lee]

7. Kerry steals Dean idea....again!

Poor John. Bereft in the original idea column.

[last1standing]

12. As a Dean supporter, I say who cares who brings it first?

Just bring it.

[blm]

13. heheh...yeah sure. Funny Kerry's was filmed already and Dean's team

happened to say they were going to film one AFTER Kerry's was already filmed.

[JohnKleeb]

14. Steals Dean's idea?

This is being shown to people? Yours all is still in production. Kudos to both of them for doing this as your fellow supporter says below.

[Karmadillo]

15. Did Kerry steal the idea or was his ad already in production

before Dean made his statement last week? Do you have a link that supports your claim?

[blm]

26. Don't think the Dean camp didn't know it when they ANNOUNCED

their plan. Ever hear of a campaign telling reporters WHAT they were planning to do for an ad? Surely they pulled this stunt to steal Kerry's thunder on it.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

27. Kerry's been in production since 1966

I think he was way, WAY ahead of Dean on the military persepective.

[Hep]

36. It's impossible for more than one person to have the same idea?

Odd.

[CityZen-X]

9. Should Have Included

Kerry "a decorated combat veteran", unlike Bu$h*t who deserted his post during the Viet Nam War.

[Timefortruth]

11. I want a trifecta ad.

Show Chimp saying it over and over, then cut in and ask, “Are you laughing? We don’t think terrorism is funny, even if the President does. The real irony of the Presidents joke is that he never made such a promise during the campaign.”

[charlie]

16. That's been making me nuts

No one's touched that yet! The clown liked it so much he pulled out of his ass a dozen or more times, and the transcripts are all on the White House site. Those are perhaps the most vile words he's ever uttered and I haven't heard any of the campaigns use them.

[blm]

17. In complete agreement.

.

[htuttle]

21. I did a remix of '911 is a Joke' by PE using that clip

Here's a link to the MP3:
http://piratevideo.tv/MP3/911_Is_A_Joke-version.mp3

I made it last year, and had great fun doing it. I've been working on an accompanying video for it (I need to find more good 'laughing crowd' footage for it to finish it, though. Maybe something old with a crowd wearing 3D glasses...).

[MessiahRp]

41. Holy crap...

This is a cool remix. Good work man..

Rp

[Timefortruth]

45. I don't have a MP3, is there another way to view it?nt

[MessiahRp]

47. Do you have...

Windows Media Player, Real Player, or any other media player on your PC? Most all Windows systems have WinMedia Player preinstalled and they can play MP3s. MP3s- BTW are sound files so you would listen to them. Right click the file and save it and double click it once. Your system should play it.

Rp

[thebigidea]

22. I did one for that moveon.org contest

it also has the "just so long as I'm the dictator... eh heh heh" bit along with rapid collages of all the hell this idiot has put us through.

[blm]

23. hey, I missed that one.

.

[thebigidea]

24. yeah, its not online yet. Adding the sugary frosting, so to speak

[NewYorkerfromMass]

30. great idea. nt

[JNelson6563]

52. and "bring it on"

Bastard chickenhawk!!

Frankly I hope all our candidates who do TV ads use the abundance of horrible moments provided by the Simian to beat him with. They could all fire off shots at him and make him all the more vulnerable by GE time--for whoever our nominee is to finish him off.

Julie

[chimpymustgo]

18. Great move Kerry! Ready to rumble.

And now we know who was zoomin' who on using the footage...

[DrFunkenstein]

25. Kerry Matches Up Great Against AWOL Boy!!!

John Kerry is the very opposite of George W. Bush. Whereas for Bush corrupt business practices, cocaine charges, and going AWOL from the National Guard were not unheard of, Kerry volunteered for active duty in Vietnam and led historic investigations in Congress against cocaine smuggling and corrupt business practices.

It is little surprise that several Iran/Contra figures that Kerry helped put away later found a place in the Bush administration.

We all have heard John Poindexter's name. He's the guy that just got canned for the terrorist gambling brainfart:

WASHINGTON -- Retired Adm. John Poindexter will resign his position at the Pentagon after the uproar over a research project he was overseeing that included a kind of futures market on political violence in the Middle East.

In the 1980s Poindexter was national security adviser to President Reagan. He was a key figure in the 1980s Iran-Contra scandal.

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-terror-market-poindexter,0,7253201.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

An old Eric Alterman article provides a little background on Poindexter, who is also responsible for DARPA's Total Information Awareness brainfart:

"Oh, and guess who's in charge? John Poindexter, the man who, during the Reagan/Bush administration, claimed under oath that he approved the payoff to the Contras of the profits garnered from selling missiles to terrorists without even so much as mentioning it to President Reagan. He did this, he said at the time, 'on my own authority' in order to 'preserve deniability.'

"But Poindexter could not produce a single piece of paper to support this alarming contention. He also admitted to discussing the implementation of a 'fall guy' plan should the program ever become public, and repeatedly misled Congress about his own involvement in order to hide the illegal program. While being questioned during the Iran-Contra hearings, Poindexter helpfully explained: 'I didn't want Congress to know the details of how we were implementing the president's policy.' To prevent this, he was willing, as he put it, to substitute an 'untruth,' which he did repeatedly."

http://hughhewitt.com/past_news_links_11.02/11.20.02.Kerry_Rises.html

Moving right along memory lane:

Oliver North, who met with Noriega's representative, described the meeting in an August 23, 1986 e-mail message to Reagan national security advisor John Poindexter. "You will recall that over the years Manuel Noriega in Panama and I have developed a fairly good relationship," North writes before explaining Noriega's proposal. If U.S. officials can "help clean up his image" and lift the ban on arms sales to the Panamanian Defense Force, Noriega will "'take care of' the Sandinista leadership for us."

North tells Poindexter that Noriega can assist with sabotage against the Sandinistas, and suggests paying Noriega a million dollars -- from "Project Democracy" funds raised from the sale of U.S. arms to Iran -- for the Panamanian leader's help in destroying Nicaraguan economic installations.

The same day Poindexter responds with an e-mail message authorizing North to meet secretly with Noriega. "I have nothing against him other than his illegal activities," Poindexter writes.

...

In 1987, the Senate Subcommittee on Narcotics, Terrorism and International Operations, led by Senator John Kerry, launched an investigation of allegations arising from reports, more than a decade ago, of contra-drug links. One of the incidents examined by the "Kerry Committee" was an effort to divert drug money from a counternarcotics operation to the contra war.

On July 28, 1988, two DEA agents testified before the House Subcommittee on Crime regarding a sting operation conducted against the Medellin Cartel. The two agents said that in 1985 Oliver North had wanted to take $1.5 million in Cartel bribe money that was carried by a DEA informant and give it to the contras. DEA officials rejected the idea.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/nsaebb2.htm

EVEN BEFORE THE joint Iran-Contra committees were formed, three other committees were already examining charges that Lt. Col. Oliver North's secret contra arms network was funded by illegal drug sales with the knowledge of the Central Intelligence Agency.

By far the most aggressive of the three congressional committees was John Kerry's Subcommittee on Narcotics, Terrorism and International Operations. His aggressiveness paid off, as Kerry was finding significant evidence of contra-connected drug smuggling.

Congressional leaders announced an investigation into North's National Security Council network by the newly formed Iran-Contra Select Committee...But from its inception, it was clear this investigation would be limited and sanitized.

For starters, the Democratic chairs of both committees--Sen. Daniel Inoue and Rep. Lee Hamilton--were falling over one another to assure the public this would not be "another Watergate." As Inoue told reporters, the country "isn't ready" for that. Having thus declared their limits, they turned to an investigator who could limit their vision.

http://www.flashpoints.net/anatomyOACoverup.htm

When congressional leaders chose the members of the elite Iran-contra committee, Kerry was left off. Those selected were consensus-politicians, not bomb-throwers.

The feeling among a disappointed Kerry and his staff was that the committee members were chosen to put a lid on things. "He was told early on they were not going to put him on it," Winer recalls. "He was too junior and too controversial . . .. They were concerned about the survival of the republic."

Even some Democrats "thought John was a little hotter than they would like," says Rosenblith.

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/062003.shtml

The historical exchange between Kerry and Abrams:

Elliott Abrams: "I can say that while I have been assistant secretary, which is about 15 months, we have not received a dime from a foreign government, not a dime, from any foreign government."

Senator Kerry: " `We' being who?"

Abrams: "The United States."

Senator Kerry: "How about the contras?"

Abrams: "I don't know. But not that I am aware of and not through us. The thing is, I think I would know about it because if they went to a foreign government, a foreign government would want credit for helping the contras and they would come to us to say you want us to do this, do you, and I would know about that."

This testimony, and similar statements to a House committee, would result in Abrams pleading guilty to charges of withholding information from Congress.

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/062003.shtml

[w4rma]

28. To Dean, a Bush image is fodder (11/8/2003)

To Dean, a Bush image is fodder
By Sarah Schweitzer, Globe Staff, 11/8/2003

NASHUA -- Presidential contender Howard Dean plans to air television commercials showing footage of President Bush's landing on the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln -- images Bush deployed as a triumphant visual coda to the Iraq conflict but which Dean says are now powerful reminders of a war gone wrong.

With mounting casualties and unrest in Iraq, the images, which include a backdrop banner reading "Mission Accomplished," are increasingly viewed by Bush's political opponents as a liability. Dean is the first Democrat to commit to using them in his ads.

"We're going to put up the aircraft carrier ad and show what his real defense is," Dean said in an interview on Thursday. "We're going to use this footage of him landing on the aircraft carrier . . . to show that he's all talk and no action. And the action he's got us into has cost us 400 lives and thousands of wounded people who will never get their limbs back."

The former governor of Vermont and Democratic front-runner has been among the most outspoken of the candidates in his opposition to the war, lambasting his congressional rivals for voting for the war resolution and railing against Bush's decision to enter the conflict.
…
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/bush/articles/2003/11/08/to_dean_a_bush_image_is_fodder/
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=674990

[NewYorkerfromMass]

29. I'm sorry but compared to Kerry, Dean looks bad doing this

and it can do nothing but help Kerry since Kerry started this in September when he launched his campaign.

[Hep]

32. Wrong again

and again and again!

No one looks bad using this. Evreyone should spend some money using this failed PR stunt against *.

And not every thread needs to be an opportunity for you to attack Dean. Do you ever rest? It's like you'r ehere 24/7. Are you a bot?

[Karmadillo]

33. No offense, Hep,

but if you read the thread, Dean supporters started the attacks by claiming Kerry is copying Dean's idea. As one of the posts above demonstrates, the Kerry campaign was talking about using the carrier footage before Dean, so the claims were off base (and the fact they got their ad out first suggests they had it in the works before Dean's statement). All that said, it doesn't take a genius to see that Bush's ridiculous publicity stunt is easy pickings for a campaign ad. Claiming credit for thinking it up would be like claiming credit for first having noticed the existence of clouds.

Also, you don't need to make the personal attacks. If you have a problem, you can always contact the moderators. Personally, I enjoy NewYorkerfromMass's (whew-next time it's NYM's) posts and think they're pretty reasonable in light of what goes on on this board as of late.

[Hep]

34. I know I know

Look, I don't care who is participating in this "Dean was first, no Kerry was first" BS. It's childish. It makes no difference. Good for Kerry, Good for Dean, Good for everyone who uses it.

And you can feel free to like NYM's posts all you want. Every other one is a mindless Dean bash. Call it a personal attack if you want. Alert me if you want. I'm calling it as I see it.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

50. my life has been much more pleasant

since I put people like that on ignore. There are some people on this board who offer nothing but negative b.s., and I found that I wanted to turn ugly on them and lash back. Trust me on this, you won't miss anything with them on ignore. Most people know who is spouting the crap and don't pay them much heed, so it's not like you have to respond to them by defending your candidate. Most people are aware enough of them, since they post anti-dean all day all the time 24/7, so they are not convincing informed people to hate Dean.

And yes, there are people like that for all the candidates. They are all on ignore for me. I come to get informed and to discuss, not to see any candidate get blindly bashed by someone who has nothing better to do than be childish.

[HFishbine]

55. To you

Dean looks bad doing anything. We've got it.

[ibegurpard]

59. Who cares who used it or announced it first?

They should ALL be using it. I'll cheer Kerry's ad just as loud as I would anyone else's.

[blm]

38. Yeah we know what they SAID. Why announce what they were PLANNING to do

in an ad? They caught wind of Kerry's ad and tried to steal the thunder by ANNOUNCING their PLANS to use it.

Noone announces their PLAN to make an ad. They do it and then roll it out.

[MessiahRp]

40. I still can't believe...

some jagoff company actually created action figures for that stunt.

You can stick your action figure right here:

[gratuitous]

44. Every Dem should use this footage

And I don't care if they're running for President or dog-catcher! I want the public so inundated with images of Flop Gun prancing around in his flight suit that people start calling him "Joker."

This man has been a murderous disaster for our country, squandered our international reputation, taken us from budget surpluses to the biggest deficits ever, and totally wrecked the U.S. for at least 10 years. He needs to go, he needs to go soon. I can wait one more year, but whoever the Democrats nominate, and I don't care if it's Kerry, Dean, Clark or the Man in the Moon, he's got my vote.

Let's restore America to its former prestige and lead the world once again.