If Dean wins the nomination will you vote for him in the general election?

[last1standing]

Plain and simple question. I hear so much anger about Dean that I'm curious to know if it goes beyond primary partisanship. Let's hear your reasons, too.

[JohnKleeb]

1. I would if I could, I am too young

[goobergunch]

9. Same here (n/t)

[Padraig18]

2. Not only 'yes', but "Hell, yes!"

ABB!

[slinkerwink]

3. good christ, someone's going to vote for bush....

must be a freeper troll on here....

[JohnKleeb]

5. stupid wanker voting for Bush I think its a freep too

Its plain partisanship IMO.

[eissa]

24. Sadly, I don't think it's freepers voting for *...

..I'm sure it's our own; only democrats would be dumb enough to shoot themselves in the foot like that.

[JohnKleeb]

26. Why would they?

:( unfortunate isn't it

[charlie]

30. Naw, no DU Democrat is going to vote for Bush

Those are freeps or some of our pranksters.

[IndianaGreen]

98. Zell Miller is voting for Bush

and Zell always had a handful of strong defenders in DU.

[Padraig18]

6. Sweet Jesus!

Any one of our 9 is lightyears ahead of *!

[JohnKleeb]

8. as silver said its probably some dumb freeper or it could be a wiseass

I already voted.

[DemExpat]

4. Well, of course I'll vote for him....

He's not one of my top choices, and I don't have a confident feeling about him being able to beat Bush, but I'd vote for him...certainly!

DemEx

[_NorCal_D_]

7. I'm not sure anymore.

I used to be ABB, however Dean has been annoying me for some time now. :(

[Padraig18]

10. Does he 'annoy you' worse than *?

:eyes:

[_NorCal_D_]

11. Good point.

B-)

[Padraig18]

13. Hehehe

:hi:

[_NorCal_D_]

20. Yep,

sometimes I can be more stubborn than the party mascot! ABB Baby!!!:bounce: :hi:

[Trek234]

25. Typical Clark supporter

I wonder how many republicans for Clark will quickly flee back to Bush after they have completed the Clark mole agenda.

[_NorCal_D_]

27. Good question!

:hi:

[Skwmom]

41. I think the Republican moles are all in the Dean camp.

Propping him up with $ and votes in the primary.

[Padraig18]

45. I think they're in the Kerry camp.

They're going to bore the voters to death.

[RetroLounge]

49. I think you need to get out more.

then you can make negative Dean comments in person...

[retyred]

58. How many of the 40 dean hired will?

Retyred In Fla
So I Read This Book

[rucky]

60. We're all moles

except for YOU. And by you, I mean the person reading this. And me. Unless you're a freeper. In that case, go away.

[QC]

74. Typical gratuitous swipe at supporters of another candidate.

You know, Bush would be doomed if we put as much effort into fighting him as we do in fighting each other here.

[Skwmom]

42. If 17% of the people on this board feel this way

can you imagine how disenchanted Repubs looking for someone to vote for are going to feel.

[T Roosevelt]

12. This should be a no-brainer for any DUer

ABB all the way baby!!!

[Zorra]

14. I'm a Kucinich supporter, but

I'll vote for Dean in a heartbeat in the general election.

[JohnKleeb]

15. *gasp* you wont be voting Green

:hi: there heh
I was just joking, everyone thinks we are all greens, thats not bad that we have greens but I am not a green.

[JohnKleeb]

17. baby made a boom boom

[JohnKleeb]

18. baby made a boom boom

[mzmolly]

16. YUP!

And, DUH! :)

[Zynx]

19. Shame on those voting third party.

Dean all the way if he is nominated!

[sweetladybug]

23. Yes I would vote for Gephart but I would prefer to vote for

our real president, President Al Gore with Dean or Clark running as vice president

[Skwmom]

40. I would love a Gore/Clark ticket. e/o/m

[IronLionZion]

78. Gore/anybody but Lieberman sounds good

hmm... Dean/Clark sounds good but is not. Two rookies will be a hard sell. Dean and an experienced Bob Graham would be good. Both are on Dean's short list. And its good to have at least one establishment guy on the ticket.

Establishment: Clark, Kerry, Gephardt, Lieberman, Edwards

Mavericks: Dean, Kucunich, Sharpton, Mosley-Braun

[Skwmom]

95. I think Clark is the maverick. He's a non-politician with

integrity. I cannot see Clark and Dean working together. Two entirely different personalities. Clark is very strong but still has a professional demeanor. Dean acts like one of those pro-wrestlers.

[The White Rose]

21. Does ANY DUer want another four years of Bush?

Vote for the candidate g*ddammit!!! If I could I'd vote for Lieberman over Bush. Hell, I'd vote for Nader before Bush! ANYONE BUT BUSH! GET IT?

[Padraig18]

22. It appears the 3rd-party folks want *

:shrug:

[ulysses]

politics is personal

Each of us (or at least each of us that pays any attention to issues, which is the huge majority of us) has a limit beyond which we won't, can't, go. Whether that limit is between Nader and Dean, Kucinich and Lieberman, Lieberman and Bush or whichever pairing you pick, it's still there. Everyone's is different.

I support Dean and so will vote Dean in the general with relative ease, but I trust others on the left to weigh what's at issue and make up their own minds without putting words in their mouths or motives in their actions. Those who may vote third party in response to a Dean candidacy may not have my complete agreement, but they won't have my enmity either.

A third-party leftist vote still does not equal "wanting *".

[Padraig18]

57. It may not equal 'wanting' *,...

... but it damned sure equals 'getting'*.

[ulysses]

84. then say what you mean.

If you mean that third-party voters *want* Bush (your original words), we have little to talk about because that's just stupid. If you mean that they *get* Bush, the we can actually have a conversation about why a leftist might vote third-party.

[number6]

28. yes ...

..but will diebold count my vote ????

[Endangered Specie]

32. To those

who'd vote for Bush: Ban them! Heathens! anyone who even thinks of voting for * are not Democrats.

vote third party: You dont learn, do you? At least find someone who'll switch votes with you.

[liberalmuse]

29. This is mindboggling!

I guess some people think Bush is preferable to Dean. Anyone who does not vote for the Democratic candidate, whomever he/she may be, is essentially casting a vote for Bush. Okay, on the bright side, at least we only have 15% stupid in our party.

[JohnKleeb]

31. these are smartasses or freepers muse

[bearfartinthewoods]

38. yeah...there are always a dozen bush votes in any poll he's in

unless the mogs got'em this will likely be the same

[JohnKleeb]

52. yea its smartasses.

[terrya]

33. I'd support exhuming the body of Grover Cleveland...

And vote for HIM before I'd ever vote for George W. Bush. I can't believe that's even an option in this poll.

Of course I'll vote for Governor Dean. He's a good man...and will be a great President.

[last1standing]

37. I wanted to cover all bases.

And as we can see some here really don't like Dean.

[mmonk]

34. Yes

I'm even willing to volunteer if that happens. This administration has to go.

[lifelong_Dem]

35. Boy, I sure am looking forward to four more years of Bush* and the PNAC...

...because 10% of politically active progressives plan to throw a temper tantrum on election day 2004.

[mmonk]

36. sad isn't it?

[last1standing]

39. So far 17% favor bush* to a Democrat.

This is why I created this poll. It's about time that DUers thought about who the enemy is and work together. We need to stop demonizing each other and our candidates and fight to regain a country we can be proud of.

[mmonk]

43. Yes we do

I pretty sure you wouldn't find those kind of numbers on a republican poll if a Dem were in power.

[Catherine Vincent]

44. No. I'm voting for Bush!

WTF kind of poll is this???????/

[last1standing]

46. Why attack the poll?

Is it more convenient than attacking bush*?

[Catherine Vincent]

65. No. Why ask such a question in this forum?

We all know that most will more than likely vote for the democratic nominee. Yes, there may be a small percentage that will but we know that. I don't like the idea of bush apologists on this board but there is nothing we can do about that. All people should be allowed to vote no matter how stupid they are.

[last1standing]

67. And all people should be able to create a poll.

No matter how stupid they are. :)

I wanted to point out the futility of attacking each others candidates so intensely by showing what was at stake. I hope it worked to some small effect. If not, then it truly was a stupid poll.

Does that help?

[Alex146]

47. Why do you people post stupid poll like this?

This is the DEMOCRATIC underground. What do you think we're going to say?

[last1standing]

48. You sure know how to embarras a Dean supporter like me.

Just act obnoxious and watch the support flow away. I've explained earlier why I created this poll. Care to read or just attack fellow DUers?

[guitar man]

54. You bet

I'd vote for Dean in a heartbeat. Anybody but Bush.

[RetroLounge]

50. Well, apparently 20 people here would prefer Bush*

and I doubt they are all Freeper Trolls...

[JohnKleeb]

51. what about smartasses/pranksters

I voted for the first opition btw.

[RetroLounge]

59. You know, JohnKleeb, we don't know each other

yet, but I read a lot of your posts.

and you are not just a smartass/prankster.

You are a MAJOR smartass/prankster!

:):):):):):):)

[mitchum]

53. of course

[jsw_81]

55. Of course I'd vote for Dean

He'd be a terrific president.

[Leftist78]

56. he was my guy

now he's not, but he's still about 87 billion times better than Bush

[eileen_d]

61. Yeah, but you won't see me out tooting his horn.

Not right away, anyway. I'm just having a bitter day.

[DrFunkenstein]

62. I Felt The Same, But Changed My Mind

I HATE - HATE - HATE Bush!!!

That should keep me going.

[eileen_d]

63. Yeah, I'm sure that will motivate me

Like I said, I'm just having a bad (attitude) day. Personally, I'd rather sell Clark in my state than Dean. But I will sell ABB no matter what.

[LiberalTexan]

64. I will vote for Sharpton

I will vote for Gephardt.
I will vote for Kerry.
I will vote for Kucinich.
I will vote for Clark.
I will vote for Moseley-Braun.
I will vote for Edwards.
I will vote for Lieberman (oh, God please no)
I will vote for the Pillsbury Dough boy.
I will vote for Betty Crocker.
I will vote for Anyone But Bush!!!!!

But, my number one choice is Dean. ;-)

[chaska]

66. Read please.

With a Dean nomination the South will vote en mass for Bush (I include Fla.).

Bushco will hang him on civil unions. Homosexual issues will turn out voters in droves to vote against Dean. Those people right now, with all of Bush's incompetence coming home to roost, those people may be somewhat demoralized. Bush is going to play the gay card mercilessly. It will be a new record for (conservative) voter turnout. It will be a GOP landslide. The Democratic party will literally die. Bush will have not only legitimacy but a mandate, a big mandate.

This is our last stand, people. If we lose this election it is over. We can't afford to take a chance on Dean.

Clark wins all of the states that Dean would carry and has a solid chance in some Southern states (he carries Ark., Fla, and Tenn. and possibly a Carolina, the Virginias, and La.) At the very least, Clark won't turn out the nutjob conservatives like Dean will.

I'm telling ya, Dean is a mistake. I know the South. He has no chance down here.

[mmonk]

68. If he wins the nomination

it doesn't matter. To vote third party or not vote is not an option. I've lived through the JFK assassination, the turmoil during the 60's, the MLK assassination, Vietnam War, etc. I've never, however, seen anything quite like what we have now in the White House nor felt so uncomfortable.

[ThoughtPolice]

69. I voted for Bush in this Poll.....

...if the choice is him or Dean. I know that's not how to be popular around here, but I believe some things are much more important than others. Making Iraq a successful democracy takes precedence over ALL other issues in my book. Whether it's Dubya's tax cuts for the rich, corporate welfare, anti-affirmative action stance, judicial nominations, whatever. They are all small fries in consideration of the big picture.

Does anybody think JFK would have pulled out of Iraq? Or FDR?

I prefer Mosley Braun or Lieberman - BUT:

What's done is done. We have occupied Iraq and are attempting to rebuild it. We can argue and fight all we want about justifications, administration's lies or deceptions and ill planning, but the fact remains, we are there. To pull out too early will actually make the situation worse than it was with Saddam in power, and I cannot with good conscience vote for anybody that plans on doing what Bush Sr. did in '91 - pull out early and condemn hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi's to be killed and subjugated by a ruthless totalitarian regime.

We must succeed in Iraq, and I prefer we do it with a Democrat Prez at the helm. But if the nominee is Dean, Kerry, Kucinich, Sharpton or any other candidate calling for immediate withdrawl from Iraq, I will sadly have to either vote Bush, or abstain.

Call it the lesser of two evils approach.

[last1standing]

71. Dean has called for 50,000 more troops in Iraq.

As well as more UN involvement. Kerry is also in favor of staying. I hope this helps you stay Democratic.

[Catherine Vincent]

72. Oh yeah? Well I have three words for you:

YOU'RE AN IDIOT!

[last1standing]

70. Not only does this not have bearing on the poll...

It also tries to convince us to vote for someone based upon the fact that they would not provide equal rights to tax paying citizens. If you support Clark, good. He's a good man and a good candidate. Your argument, however, is an insult to those who want to live and love as Americans, not as second class citizens.

I, for one, am tired of being afraid to stand up for what I believe. I will not vote for someone who wishes to deny gays civil rights. So far I have only heard Edwards do so. Maybe there are others.

[chaska]

86. Please read (a slight return).

I certainly am no homophobe. I'm as liberal as any one here. I'm certain that General Clark is pro gay rights as well, but this is - whether you choose to see it or not - an extremely divisive issue. I have often defended gay rights. I'm really quite upset that you would think me a homophobe. Anyway....

Clark is being very careful to not make Clinton's mistake. Clinton himself said that the reason that his health care initiative failed was because he tried to do gays in the military first. I know that gays will make progress in any Dem administration. It's a no brainer, I'm for gay rights. It's a non-issue, except as it pertains to winning the election. If we don't win homosexuals aren't the only ones that lose.

[last1standing]

92. In 2002 we were careful not to upset "moderates" and conservatives.

We ran candidates for governorships, the house, and the senate who ran campaigns of accomodation towards repubs. We lost substantially and rightly so. We may lose the presidency running a pro-rights candidate, but we will not lose our souls. I respect Dean enough to think he will be honest and forthright enough to bring real issues to the north and south. I respect most of our other candidates to do the same.

If you say you are not a homophobe, I believe you as it is the least I can do for a fellow DUer. It certainly did surprise me to hear the tone of that post from a member of this board. I'm glad I was wrong.

[chaska]

96. Sorry, I guess the fact that I was being emphatic about Dean...

made it appear that I was against gays as well. Actually, it's not that I'm anti-Dean at all. I'm pro-dem president in '04. There is no doubt in my mind, however, that Dean can't win.

The reason we lost in '02 is Bush's manufactured Iraq war and associated post-9/11 bloodlust.

I'm going to watch some tv now.

[Floradora]

73. the South, Dean, and the voting machine

I think Dean can win in the South if he has the right VP candidate. I plan to vote for the Democratic candidate, whoever is nominated. But will my vote be tallied for the Dems or for the Repugs? The 3 big players in this election are Diebold, ES&S, & Sequoia--all manufactured, programmed, and maintained by employees of Bush Rangers. These machines tally 85% of the votes and on most of them there is no audit trail. A recount means, "we'll tell you again." Why isn't this the #1 hot topic on DU? Why does the DNC not even list it as an issue? Why doesn't Gephardt sign on to HR 2239, the bill that mandates a paper audit trail and QC spot checks? Kucinich has signed on, along with 65 other House Dems. The 2000 election was stolen noisily with a lot of dust. Some 2002 elections were stolen with hardly a ripple. If we don't get paper audit trails on those machines now the only Democrats in office will be tokens for show and most voters will never know their pockets were picked.

[LiberalTexan]

75. Dean leads in MY part of the South

And, I just moved from Florida. From what I know from living there, Dean won't have a problem winning there. Al Gore certainly didn't. Though we had this little vote counting glitch.... so we'll never know by how many votes Gore won Florida.

[mmonk]

81. chaska

you may want to check Clark's positions concerning civil rights for gays. If they can get Dean on it, why couldn't they get Clark?

[chaska]

90. And again.

Clark is innoculated on the gay issue by virtue of the fact that he's military, that he has no record of accomplishment in this area, and because he is smart enough not to let this become a dominant issue. He is playing this one close to his vest, as he should be. It's absolutely the best thing for the gay community that he is not in your face about this. In your face will lose on this issue. Quiet, behind the scenes action (AFTER the election) is the way to play this ... *for the good of the gay community.*

[1songbird]

82. The republican party is counting on Dean

getting the nomination for all of the reasons you've listed. I will still vote for Dean, but I just hope and pray the nominee will be Clark.

[IronLionZion]

85. There are progressives in the South

Especially in New Orleans that would vote for Dean. Dean's my favorite but damnit, he doesn't look like a Bush-beater. Clark is Bush-beater alright, and I like his platform, but I've heard some terrible things about the guy. Specifically that he is more arrogant and cowboy-ish than Bush. The order for the British General to confront the Russkies comes to mind. Damn that was reckless! Also it appears that Clark was not such a big hero in Kosovo; supposedly it was the Russians again!

His platform is still solid, but he would need to get some good people in his administration or we're doomed. Read my lips-NO MORE COWBOYS!

http://reese.king-online.com/Reese_20031003/index.php">read this article please

in case that link didn't work: http://reese.king-online.com/Reese_20031003/index.php

[Lorien]

100. I'm in the South

Dean meetups are BIG down here, so I must respectfully disagree.

[quaker bill]

76. I have said it before

I would vote for a ham sandwich(d) over Bush*. A ham sandwich would do less harm.

[UTUSN]

77. What's the Point of This Question? Dem-Nom-YES, but

reverse the identity--------------will all DEAN supporters vote for KERRY or CLARK?

[last1standing]

79. Please feel free to start that poll.

This Dean supporter will vote for either of them if they win the nomination.

[BiggJawn]

80. Yes I will. ABB, remember?

Even Jowly Joe, as much as I would feel like a ReTHUG doing it.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

83. While...

Clark is my first choice by far, I will support the Nominee whoever it is because:

President Clark
President Edwards
President Kerry
President Kucinich
President Dean
President Sharpton
President Gehphardt
President Braun
President Lieberman

are better than President Bush. All of these will be a great improvment from what we currently have.

:dem:

[GOPBasher]

87. Duhhh

That's a no-brainer.

[PurityOfEssence]

88. Of course; only a narcissist, numbskull or contrarian wouldn't

Hell, I've got a whole passel of problems with him, but there's not question. I'd do so happily and with aplomb. Maybe even a couple of plombs.

[FrenchieCat]

89. But will our votes be counted?

Because that my friends is the 5 trillion dollar question? Which is what Bush will cost us along with some lives if he stays in.

[chaska]

91. Responses posted #86 and #90

[The Magistrate]

93. Of Course, Mr. Standing

Whoever does not vote for the Democratic Party nominee in the upcoming election is simply furthering victory by the most reactionary elements of our polity.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[mdmc]

94. sure

:dem:

[kodi]

97. sure, as many times as i can

if he can counter the smears coming from the right that he is a birkenstock wearing, chablis drinking and cheese eating liberal, he can beat bush's ass right back to texas.

[Gephard]

99. Surprising