has Dean ever traveled outside the USA?

[bearfartinthewoods]

i;ve never heard him reference any travel?

[RamboLiberal]

1. I know he went to Laos to find his brother who died there

eom

[alcuno]

6. That was such a tragedy for his family.

I remember hearing him tell the story of his brother's murder and how they are still searching for his grave.

[Rose Siding]

2. He's been to 51 countries, I believe

He is very well traveled and I've heard him speak of it on several occasions.

[Eloriel]

3. And has had a lot of experience as Gov working with Canada

But of course that doesn't count, does it?

He's also mentioned working with the President of Argentina, and I'm sure others.

He's traveled widely. And he speaks Spanish fluently.

Eloriel

[bearfartinthewoods]

12. Do you think he has spent more time over seas than he has down south?

i really hope so. if he is as clueless about foreign cultures as he has shown he is about southern culture with his "clumsy" handling of the flag issue we could be in deep shit. i think we need someone with a deft hand to undo the damage bushco has done.

quote the Doctor "why do i do things like that?"
good question...

[JaneQPublic]

23. Dean worked on a cattle ranch in Fla. when he was 16

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/dean/dean0702/deanintpt1.html

QUESTION: You also mentioned that you worked down in Florida.

DEAN: I worked on a cattle ranch in Florida, in Lake Okeechobee when I was 16.

Q: Was that for summer?

DEAN: Yeah it was a summer job.

Q: What did you learn from that?

DEAN: It was hard work. Made $1.15 an hour, $1.25 on Sunday. We worked 6 1/2 days a week and lived by ourselves in an apartment over the ranch house.

Q: What were you doing during the day?

DEAN: We were shoveling you know what, burning up brush to open up fields for the cattle. We were just the lowest of the low in terms of laborers; we were basically agricultural laborers. It was my first exposure to Spanish because most of the people who worked on the land had escaped from Cuba and many of them didn't speak English, so we had to learn a little Spanish.

[RamboLiberal]

4. 51 - that's pretty damn impressive

[DrFunkenstein]

5. I Believe He's Travelled To The Middle East

Dean traveled to Israel on a trip sponsored by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). After meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, Dean stated: “I do not think that as long as Yasser Arafat is president there will be peace." Before leaving, Sharon asked if Dean would support requests for new loan guarantees to Israel. Dean “promised him he would.”

http://www.aaiusa.org/countdown/c120602.htm

Dean's alignment with AIPAC and their right-wing politics goes much deeper. Last year, he named Steven Grossman, a former AIPAC head, as his campaign's chief fundraiser. Soon after, he flew to Israel on an AIPAC-sponsored junket.


In a major foreign policy speech earlier this year, Dean, while calling for an end to Palestinian violence, did not call for an end to Israeli violence, let alone an end to the illegal Israeli occupation.

Last December, Dean told the Jerusalem Post that he unequivocally supported $8 Billion in US loan guarantees for Israel. "I believe that by providing Israel with the loan guarantees...the US will be advancing its own interest," he said.

His unconditional support for the loan package, in addition to $4 Billion in outright grants, went further than even some of the most pro-Israel elements in the Bush administration, like Paul Wolfowitz, who wanted to at least include some vague restrictions like pushing Israel to curtail new settlements and accept a timetable to establish a Palestinian state.

http://www.muslimwakeup.com/mainarchive/000119.html

Dean believes the Bush administration should be giving Israel $4 billion in military aid to fight terrorism, not the $1 billion it proposed last month.

Despite his opposition to the war, Dean received a warm welcome earlier this month at a Jewish gathering largely supportive of the war.

At a meet-and-greet session after the official festivities one night at the annual AIPAC policy conference, Dean spoke to a capacity crowd in a small room, shaking hands for several hours and progressing slowly to the exit, encircled by well-wishers.

"The only way to beat George Bush is to stand up to him, not to try and be like him,'' he said.

http://www.jewishsf.com/bk030418/us02.shtml

[Hep]

19. Nice segue!

Very well crafted. You are the King of the Mudslingers!

*golf claps*


Dr. Funk. Are you familiar with Jeremy Ben-Ami?

[bearfartinthewoods]

25. i thought he said our approach should be more evenhanded?

sheesh...how does one keep up with this guy?

[Lefty48197]

7. OUTSIDE the USA?

Hell, Vermont is barely INSIDE the USA>

[DrFunkenstein]

8. Oh, C'mon - Leave Those 630,000 People Alone

It's bad enough they don't even have a real metropolitan area...

[maxanne]

18. yep

we're all hicks and dolts in the great north woods.

[Hep]

22. How do you think I feel?

Look at how they talk about people in the south!

[wicket]

24. Vermont representing!

:)

[janx]

27. HA! I love it in Vermont.

Can't wait to return.

[Forkboy]

26. more ugliness from Funk

hey let's start insulting whole states now!!!

BTW,how's Kerry doing?

[JNelson6563]

38. I think I know

In an hourlong interview on a public radio program in Concord on Wednesday, Mr. Kerry, who two months ago publicly chastised his campaign manager for assailing Dr. Dean, again and again turned questions about his own views into attacks on Dr. Dean, until his host finally politely asked that Senator Kerry use his time to talk about Senator Kerry.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/09/politics/campaigns/09DEMS.html?pagewanted=2&hp

Seems the only noteworthy news there is a big shift in campaign staff and they're going to start getting "aggressive" regarding Dean. Gee may they'll keep giving him all that free promotion! ;-)

Julie

[Skittles]

9. did you wonder the same about George W. Bush?

?

[bearfartinthewoods]

16. hell yeah!

that's what brings the question about Dean! i'm soured on governors in general since bush. if there was ever a time we need a sophisticated hand at the helm, it's now.

[KaraokeKarlton]

10. He's been to over 50 countries and lived abroad for a year

as a foreign exchange student.

[caledesi]

11. He worked in Africa. He's been around nt

[dave29]

13. He's lived, with us, in Bizarro Bush World

for three years now.

[HFishbine]

14. I head Kerry speaks fluid French

Uh huh.

[Orangepeel]

15. He's very well travelled.

Some specifics:

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/dean/dean051002int.html

DEAN: The English-Speaking Union, at age 17. I lived in England for a year and visited both eastern and western Europe and also North Africa during that time; Turkey as well... We actually drove through France, Belgium, Germany, Austria, what was then Yugoslavia--which is now Macedonia, Croatia, etcetera, etcetera--Bulgaria, which was very interesting 35 years ago as you can imagine, Greece, and then ended up in Turkey.

It was a great trip. Especially as a kid, you just really start to learn about foreign cultures, why people view the United States the way they do and--you know people in the world, especially in developing countries, have a very strong dichotomy of views, inside individuals--they love and admire America on the one hand and they resent its use of power on the other.

Certainly it's made me critical of the President's foreign policy. I support the President's conduct of the war on terrorism, but his foreign policy has basically been, for the most part swaggering around with a big stick, and that doesn't help. We're always going to be criticized by people who are jealous of American power, but I think you do have to have good working relations with people and I think the unilateralism that's been involved in the President's policy has been a mistake.


Driving around there did you have any ...

DEAN: Well we had some interesting times. We stopped off in a cafe in Bulgaria, and one of the high school kids had taken Russian. So we had our conversation--since we didn't speak Burgarian and they didn't speak English, we had the conversation with the kids our age and a little older in Russian. You know this was in 1967. So that was sort of my first major trip abroad, living abroad for a year. It was really worth doing, really educational.


What came after that?

DEAN: I've been to Nigeria; I was in Nigeria during the Civil War. That was a pretty sobering experience to be greeted with people with Kalishnikovs not too careful about what direction they pointed them in.

When was that?

DEAN: That was in 1969 I think.

And what brought you over there?

DEAN: When I was in England I met a Nigerian who was also in school there, and I visited him. So I've been in some interesting places...

I went to South East Asia . My brother is a POW/MIA. And that was an extraordinary trip to Laos and spent time--I did meet the deputy foreign minister and so forth, and became acquainted with the extraordinary job our military's doing with the POW/MIA effort, and spent a couple of days at base camp visiting sites. It was an exceptional, exceptional trip. We did visit the site where my brother is buried. We don't know exactly where, but we know roughly where, which you can imagine was an extraordinarily emotional-- But I spent two days in base camp; three days visiting sites. Our Armed Forces are making an extraordinary effort. I have little patience for people like Bob Smith who criticize the government for the POW/MIA efforts. We're doing a great job over there.

And they have these sites, which I actually worked on the sites. I actually dug up--did some digging; I did some screening of the human material. When you see what happens when a fighter plane goes into the hills at 300 miles an hour, you know there's not a lot left, plus of course there's a fire afterwards. We found some teeth and some things like that--it's 30 years afterwards. Plus this is all along the Ho Chi Mihn trail so you see this enormous--Laos was the most heavily bombed country in the world, and there's still huge craters over there, some of them are right in villages. So to see these sites, which are basically archeological sites, with anthropologists on staff and so forth, was just extraordinary.

[MaineDem]

17. Please don't jump on me

I was under the impression his brother was civilian. Am I wrong? Was he military? I really don't know and I want to be corrected if I'm wrong.

Thanks.

[Hep]

20. Peace Corps

n/t

[Orangepeel]

21. *jump*

Just kidding. It's a good question.

He was arrested an executed by communist rebels for espionage. He was classified by the U.S. Government POW/MIA.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2086440/

[MaineDem]

31. Thanks

I think it's strange that the government would classify a "civilian" as POW-MIA. That's what made me ask.

And thanks for "jumping" gently. :)

[ibegurpard]

28. Innocent request for information or trolling for reasons to bash?

Your responses so far indicate the latter.

[bearfartinthewoods]

29. can i get a definition for the term bash befor i answer?

the closest dictionary definition would have to be to hit and i swear i don't want to hit Dean.

but if your definition includes a concern and a desire to point out that like our current resident, Dean has little foreign policy experience in government, then i plead guilty.

we face some of the most hazardous times in decades. Dean's foriegn policy experience or lack of is a valid issue, wouldn't you agree?

[KaraokeKarlton]

30. Dean has a pretty damn good foreign policy knowledge

Look at all he's seen and done across the world. He's a man of the people and he most certainly understands the people from the countries he's visited. If you understand the people you have a much better understanding of what deals you should and shouldn't make with their leaders.

[bearfartinthewoods]

34. can you poit me to what you read that leads you to believe that

"he most certainly understands the people from the countries he's visited. "

that's a pretty confident conclusion and i need to understand how you arrive at it. thanks

[KaraokeKarlton]

36. scroll up a few posts

I have quite a few friends from other countries and the statement of Dean's that was posted by someone in this very thread mirrors the exact thing I've always heard from people from other countries. Having that understanding and basic fairness, good advisors and that's all you need to be good on foreign policy. Leadership is important too, and Dean is the best with leadership of all the candidates. As a swing voter I have to tell you that foreign policy is not even in the top 3 of what matters to me. I care most about a balanced budget, the economy, healthcare and gun rights, not listed in order of preference. Dean is good with people, and anyone who is good with people has a natural affinity for foreign policy.

[ibegurpard]

32. bash

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary
2 : to attack physically or verbally <media bashing> <celebrity bashing>

In my opinion, what you're doing fits the verbal definition. I would agree that foreign policy experience is an important issue. HOWEVER, when people straight-up volunteered information as to Dean's world-travels (which is what you specifically asked for) you simply derided it and proceeded to bash. Very exemplary behavior from such a stickler for the rules :eyes:

[bearfartinthewoods]

33. errr......can you point to what you view as an 'attack'?

if you are referrinf to my referencing his clueless and clumsy handling of an outreach to white, southern males, Dean himself deemed it clumsy. i added the clueless.

if the use of the word clueless is a verbal attack then i am a Dean basher. but please note that i have never called him a snot nose or a poopyhead so i'm a minor league casher at best.(such terms were applied to my current candidate of choice, yesterday)

if i wanted to draw a conection between his clumsy, hamhanded , amateurish (please note the use of synonymw of Dean's choice of verbage) mishandling of the flag gaf and the perils that lie ahead if he does something like that on an international scope, how would you suggest i word it without being brabded a basher?

[ibegurpard]

35. Let's cut to the chase shall we?

You could start by dropping the cutesy pretenses and not start a thread under the auspices of looking for information that you can turn around and attack. And then not "innocently" call foul when others (who are more perceptive than you give them credit for) call you on it. You want to start a thread criticizing what you perceive as Dean's lack of foreign policy credentials? Fine. Then label it as such. You'll probably still get called a basher but at least you can't be accused of being disingenuous. Welcome to my ignore list...you're only the second DUer ever to go on it. Now why don't you go find some poor person whose image is being exploited on the web and take up their cause? :eyes:

[bearfartinthewoods]

39. did i call foul? i don't remember crying foul.....

the question was valid as was my point. Dean's lack of foreign policy and, well let's add military experience is something to consider. until i get input on hw to draw attention to these weaknesses without being deemed a basher.i will have to stumble on in my own clumsy manner. i had hoped you'd help but you are ignoring me so no hope for that.

i'm cool with that though since it seems you are, like another Dean supporter, really inteested in telling me what and who i should support and i don't take instructions well.

[DebJ]

37. foreign policy experience or lack of is a valid issue???

What the USA needs most in foreign policy tactics is to do what Ben Franklin was so good at:

SHUT UP AND LISTEN!!! Either respect other people and their rights, or at least for the good of our country, be able to confer the impression that you do respect them.
I don't see it as an 'experience' issue. GW's got LOTS of experience now, doesn't he???? To me, the issue is more one of personal characteristics and qualities. Do you value the rights of others? Can you speak intelligently? Can you intelligently process information provided for you? Do you believe that the United States does not have the right to be an empire, dictating who shall run each country and how? Obviously, experience in foreign matters does NOT give these qualities and capabilities to people.

[bearfartinthewoods]

40. i agree in part with your first statement

we do desperately need to convet our resprct in order to regain the respect of other nation. however that requires a dialogue, in part , on it's face and in part because the USA can't shut up. not now, not ever in my opinion.

so that leaves us to the skills, verbal and intuitive skills of the president and seeing Dean in that roll keeps me awake nights.

as to your second point, i dusagee completely. a man with little foreign policyexperience needs more people to help him catch up annd is then vulnerable to the quality of the advice and the motives of the advisors.

who will be Dean's advisors? who will be whispering into his ear?

bush taught us what can happen when you hire a team. i'd like to know the roster this time.