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11 Nov 1918..just asking for remembrance today...

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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 07:57 AM
Original message
11 Nov 1918..just asking for remembrance today...
I know there have been several threads on this already, so I will be brief.

Please take a moment today to remember those who have sacrificed their tomorrows so we could have today. A silent moment of reflection for what we owe our veterans and their families that have born the brunt of defending our nation.

If you find it appropriate for your belief system, you might add a prayer that our youth come home soon and intact from the current war.

Thank you.

:grouphug: for vets and their families.
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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm a Vet. Let's get something straight here....
First, thanks for the recognition.

Second, the only veterans who fall under your statement of "defending our nation" are the ones who died in the Revolution, War of 1812 and the Civil War. All other wars were wars of economic conquest or the protection against threats to private property or resources.

Even 9/11, IMO, was a retaliatory strike in response to past US aggression. That doesn't excuse it.

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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I was going to post something of an response...
but since you missed the point, I will refrain.
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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. I got the point, just tired of the false premises. ...
I really didn't mean to pick a fight with you and if you have been offended, I apologize.

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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Understood...
As a vet, I take veterans affairs very seriously. Thiere is no false patriotism here, just a deep respect for those that have been sacrificed on the altar of war.

:kick:
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. And I'm not even sure who planned 9/11 anymore. Good post.
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DiverDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. I just couldnt
Edited on Tue Nov-11-03 12:27 PM by DiverDave
let this one slide...
The fight against fascism wasn't worth your respect?
I'm a vet too, as was my uncle, who was a POW of the Japanese.
He still has the scars from the torture he endured.
So, how 'bout you tell HIM that his suffering was in vain.
I can't, every time I think of that sweet man getting a rope looped around his back and having it pulled to create deep wounds, I almost cry.
Him, and all the others, that paid such a terrible price deserve more respect then they get.
Especially from you.

Edit for spelling.
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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Let me say this about that....
The fight against fascism was and is a worthy cause and I respect those who did that. But what I might point out to you is that, with all due respect, do some research about who it was in this country that helped Hitler in the creation of the Nazi war machine and even did business with Hitler right up until 1944. This is not conspiracy, this is fact.....see Trading With The Enemy: The Nazi-American Money Plot 1933-1949 by Charles Higham

from the inside cover...For nearly forty years the facts behind the true story of Nazi-American wartime business relations were buried in gov't files. But Charles Higham, drawing his account from thousands of documents released under the Freedom of Information Act, has, in Trading With The Enemy, given us a horrifying, full scale picture of the American businessmen who dealt with the Nazis during the Second World War. Those culpable include certain executives of Standard Oil of New Jersey, the Chase Bank, the Texas Company, ITT, Ford Motor Company, and Sterling Products...

Standard Oil shipped the Nazis precious oil through Switzerland while Allied forces endured restrictions of supplies and shortages were widespread. Ford Motor Company trucks were built for Nazi troops with authorization from Ford directors in the United States (for more on this see The Nation magazine Jan. 24, 2000 edition "Ford and the Fuhrer"). The chairman of ITT supplied much of Hitler's communnications system. Throughout WW II, the list of those who chose Business as Usual-even when the business was conducted with their country's enemy during war-is as extensive as it is shocking

My point is this...if people allow right-wing extremists to operate without regulation we end up with people like your Uncle suffering or worse. WW II happened because it was allowed to happen. Japan didn't become a threat until it started encroaching on the US's imperial conquests. Had they stayed within their own little sphere of influence I doubt if anyone would have cared in Washington. Having said that, I do respect what your Uncle and people like him endured. I only wish people would be or would have been pro-active instead of reactive in fighting imperialism, fascism, militarism, racism etc, etc....
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Your fight is with corporate America...
not against those who fought, died, were prisoners or survivors.

While I can understand your points, in essence, it really has little to do with the men and women that lost their lives for this country. You may argue that corporate America had a hand in fascism during WWII, I'll give you that. There have always been profiteers in every war. In the Civil War, it was weevil ridden hardtack and rancid beef in barrels. As far as I'm concerned, those that are profiteers during times of war, should be stripped of their citizenship, their assets seized, tarred and feathered then tossed into the trenches with the troops they made a profit off of.

But that is all beside the point of my original post. Those that gave their lives in war need to be remembered. Those that fought to end threats to this nation must be recognized.

Defend your atatements for what they are worth, but on Veterans Day, it would show discretion on your part to remember those that have kept this country free from foreign attack since Pearl Harbor. The WTC is the exception, and that scenario, thankfully, has not been repeated since 9-11.

Once again, I honor my fellow vets, and current servicemembers with rememberance of what they sacrifice.

:kick:
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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Where do you get your history from?
"in essence, it really has little to do with the men and women that lost their lives for this country.".......

...I couldn't disagree more but hey, you believe what you want to believe.
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DiverDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Today is NOT ABOUT
The reasons!
Today is for the people who served. period.
Can't you separate the two?
I'm just as pissed as you about the REASONS, but give the vets their due, or can you not do that?
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Apparently he can't...
but that is a story for another day. Some people are never going to get it.

:kick:
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TAH6988 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-12-03 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #16
27. Oh, I forgot
how we created Hitler and caused facism...my bad. I have to keep reminding myself that EVERYTHING bad that happens is the US's fault.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
2. May they rest in peace.
"In Flanders Fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe;
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch, be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields."

John McCrae 1872 - 1918

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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Blighters
THE House is crammed: tier beyond tier they grin
And cackle at the Show, while prancing ranks
Of harlots shrill the chorus, drunk with din;
‘We’re sure the Kaiser loves our dear old Tanks!’

I’d like to see a Tank come down the stalls,
Lurching to rag-time tunes, or ‘Home, sweet Home’,
And there’d be no more jokes in Music-halls
To mock the riddled corpses round Bapaume.

- Siegfried Sassoon
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. The Old Lie: Take up our quarrel with the foe
Edited on Tue Nov-11-03 08:25 AM by markses
Dulce et Decorum Est

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned out backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame, all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped five-nines that dropped behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!--An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime.--
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin,
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

- Wilfred Owen
(Killed in Action, Oise-Sambre Canal, 4 November 1918
Family notified 11 November 1918)
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Thanks for posting this, my favorite poem...
woke up thinking about it this morning. I have my poppy and will be going to our Rememberance services this morning.
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metisnation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. We will never forget
those who have died for the greed of a select few people. I will continue my fight against these perpatrators in honor of their memory and their dedication to us the American people.


:kick:
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. A Vietnam soldier's poem
Oh Lord, I want to go back home.
But I don't know if I can ever go back home.
Though this life is sometimes too much to bear,
I don't know if they're ready for me back there.
I'm not the fair haired boy that left.
Killing and blood have left my soul
Of civility bereft.
But who can leave all this,
Sand in the eye of the storm bliss?

My assigned bunkers sand bag roof
May not be quite rain proof,
But at Betty, what an opulent delight,
Not to have to dig a foxhole every night.
And sandy floors make a bed just right.
Here, I hardly ever have to fight.
Can you believe it,
The fear of it used to keep me up all night.

Sand bags make a most excellent building material,
Built to deflect with ease raining shrapnel.
Why, I hardly ever with VC here have to grapple.
Did you know sand bags repel grenades?
Betty's concertina wire discourages VC raids,
Holding down those black pajama parades.
Its razor wire
Makes Mr. Charles from a distance fire.
LZ Betty has clear fire zones for my friendly claymore.
Could a groundpounding grunt ask for more?

Combat infantrymen are treated by nature
To the good life Vietnam picture tour.
Heat, sun, black scorpions, poisonous two-step adders,
Ground pounders solemnly abjure,
But must learn to endure,
Feted by friendly, neighborhood VietCong,
Who would never, never, ever do you wrong.

Your very existence Charley would like to repudiate,
By hate expropriate.
Your sorry life blood he would gladly appropriate,
Your very being abrogate...
Fervently your way to Hell expedite

Life in LZ Betty is at best insecure,
A life on the edge unsure
A future of life and death totally obscure.
You know, Charley is really a swell kind of guy!
Just thinking of him makes me want to cry.
That must be why my lips get razor grim,
Thinking of him...
Dreaming of him...
Reliving my dance of death with him...

LZ Betty's a wonderful beach front property,
Where Charley hosts this little party.
All LZ Betty’s neighbors festoon their front yards,
With sharpened bamboo shards,
Criss-crossed punji stakes...
That one little prick your whole day makes.
Dipped in human excrement for goodness sakes,
That the more severe infection creates.

But this Okie with a rifle,
Is not someone with whom to trifle.
Though betimes LZ Betty’s just a day at the beach,
Around the body of which VC sappers cling like a leach.
Its Monsoon rains fill your foxhole,
Swimming with snakes, lizards and fist sized spiders,
Unwelcome visitors not at all neat,
Not exactly my idea of a treat.

Charley, outside LZ Betty's always waiting,
A pesky devil persevering,
To reach out and touch someone,
With sniper bullet at setting sun
When the long day is done...
Or to greet an LZ Betty sunrise
With a popping little surprise!

At LZ Betty no one can hear
The little boy screaming...
His soul withering...
Finally dying...
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Timefortruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
11. WWI was called the War to End All Wars,
until WWII came along and they had to rename it. There was real idealism at that point in history that we had right on our side and we could save the world. It is the remnants of that idealism and the same hopefulness that the Evildoers in the current administration manipulate today to get their way politically and militarily. Their cynicism is boundless.
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
12. what was it that they died for?
"Just as in July, 1914, in the political sphere, the country was drifting into a civil war over the Irish controversy, so in the industrial sphere we were approaching general strikes upon a scale which could scarcely have been distinguished from civil war. ... We were upon the edge of serious industrial disturbance when the war saved us by teaching employers and men the obligation of a common patriotism."
written in The Economist, from March 31, 1917
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. That is the insanity of war...
"what did they die for"?

After all is said and done, those that are involved in conflict and die, died for those around them. Abstract notions of patriotism and ideology fall away. Men and women die trying to survive; while those that instigated the war, go home to warm beds and comfort.

Perhaps, with a wisdom yet unknown to mankind, war will become one of the philosophies that will become obsolete.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. kick
:kick:
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
21. Ras thanks
I stayed ever the silent as my watch struck 11:11 in the library this morning, I thought the supposed war to end all wars is over but it wasnt :(.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Thanks for taking the time John...
Tomorrow is another day to enter the fray; today is a day of remembrance.

:kick:
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
24. My father
fought against Nazi Germany. I honor his memory on this day and those that fought with him, but never returned (heavy casualties in the battle of the bulge). He came back and made the most of his life becoming a successful businessman and always giving back to his community. I do know, that if he were alive today, he would not like the direction this country is going. A true patriot.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. My father and stepfather both fought in Europe...
As a vet, I know the feeling. I also honor your father on this day.

:hug:
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-12-03 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
26. I'm late to the ceremony ...
but I think it's important so I'm here anyhow.

I have trouble with Flanders Field too -- "take up our quarrel with the foe". What can be remembered is that the poem was scribbled by a Canadian battlefield doctor during a lull in the fighting in WWI, the most horrific war the world has ever seen, shortly before he died there himself -- hear it more for what it is than what it says.

I have two family members who went to war in the last century. The first was my mother's father's oldest brother, who is buried in Étaples, France, having been gassed at Yprès in WWI, 2 bloody weeks before the war ended (it ended at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month). His little sister (whose mother had also died) apparently never recovered from the loss, and was ultimately committed to a psychiatric institution. The second was my paternal grandfather, in WWI and some British overseas adventure or other before that. I don't imagine that joining the Royal Ulster Constabulary (the forces of British repression in Northern Ireland in the early 20s) was his first choice of career, but I gather Captains of the Dragoon Guards weren't much needed after the war. Ultimately he was given a land grant in western Canada ... so I kinda owe my existence to WWI, although a branch of my family tree is missing.

WWI, besides being the worst environmental disaster in history, was the largest-scale, most pointless and appalling slaughter the world had ever known, in which ordinary men spent months of their lives in conditions that can only be called torture. It was followed by starvation and epidemics. And the surviving soldiers were commonly afflicted, in addition to physical disabilities and the after-effects of poison gas, by debilitating "shell shock" -- what we now call severe post-traumatic stress, that destroyed their lives.

I don't express my gratitude on Nov. 11 for what these people did for my country; I remember them as people, who did what they did either out of patriotism or out of duty or misguided idealism, or out of having no choice in the matter, but for whatever reason were thrust into circumstances by their country, my country, that they should never have had to experience, and that make me owe them a duty of remembrance. That's what it is, here: Remembrance Day.

And the speeches at the national ceremony of remembrance in Ottawa seemed even more strongly focussed this year on peace and social justice than in past years. I believe it was the Anglican chaplain whose "prayer" (and as an atheist I do resent the exclusionary nature of the public act of remembrance, for sure) was a very pointed call for equal rights for all, and tolerance and compassion and solidarity. C'mon up next year, if you're looking for remembrance without jingoism.

I have three artefacts to contribute. Country Joe Macdonald's site is a wealth of things to think about, focusing on Vietnam vets -- I love his Florence Nightingale page, with his realization of the effect that war has on the women who serve but are seldom remembered. http://www.countryjoe.com/

A painting by one of my favourite artists, Lady Butler, who was the first to paint the experience of war realistically -- painting the Crimean War (where Florence Nightingale tried to bring some shred of human dignity to the working class boys being used as fodder), while the other toffs picnicked on the hills and watched the killing going on below.



Remnants of an Army by Lady Butler

Depicts Dr. William Brydon, an assistant surgeon
in the Bengal Army arriving at the gates of
Jellabad on his exhausted and dying horse. He
was thought to be the sole survivor of some
16,000 strong army and followers from Kabul,
which was forced to retreat the 90 miles over
snow covered passes to Jellabad during the first
Aghan war. A few others eventually struggled
through to the fort.


And a song by Eric Bogle of Australia, about WWI veterans there. (What he says about Australia and WWI is also said of Canada: the "coming of age" of a nation, when it fought its first war.)


This... in Australia, every year, we have... we celebrate... we remember "ANZAC DAY" -- an' it's a very important day in Australia... the whole day is given over to remembering the soldiers who died in... all the wars and... the whole day -- in Britain, in England, they have two minutes of silence once a year.

It's important in Australia, because at Gallipoli, in 1915, for the first time, the Australian soldiers had Australian officers -- before then, the Australian army had British officers.

And... by this time, it was an all-Australian army, and they did quite well... and Australia was very proud of 'em. And they engendered a great sense of national pride, back home in Australia.

The saying arose that Australia became a nation founded on the blood of our soldiers who died at Gallipoli. So... it was very important to Australia.

We have... in Britain just now.. and THEN it was "our brave boys at Gallipoli"... in Britain, just before John and I left three days ago, it was "our brave boys in the Falkland Islands." The jingoism always remains the same... it's just the wars that are different... but they seem stupid, hackneyed phrases... which demeans the soldiers...

Right... I'll get off my pulpit... stop preaching and sing a song... I get quite heated about this subject...

Now when I was a young man I carried me pack
And I lived the free life of the rover.
From the Murray's green basin to the dusty outback,
Well, I waltzed my Matilda all over.
Then in 1915, my country said, "Son,
It's time you stop ramblin', there's work to be done."
So they gave me a tin hat, and they gave me a gun,
And they marched me away to the war.

And the band played "Waltzing Matilda,"
As the ship pulled away from the quay,
And amidst all the cheers, the flag waving, and tears,
We sailed off for Gallipoli.

And how well I remember that terrible day,
How our blood stained the sand and the water;
And of how in that hell that they call Suvla Bay
We were butchered like lambs at the slaughter.
Johnny Turk, he was waitin', he primed himself well;
He showered us with bullets, and he rained us with shell --
And in five minutes flat, he'd blown us all to hell,
Nearly blew us right back to Australia.

But the band played "Waltzing Matilda,"
When we stopped to bury our slain,
Well, we buried ours, and the Turks buried theirs,
Then we started all over again.

And those that were left, well, we tried to survive
In that mad world of blood, death and fire.
And for ten weary weeks I kept myself alive
Though around me the corpses piled higher.
Then a big Turkish shell knocked me arse over head,
And when I woke up in me hospital bed
And saw what it had done, well, I wished I was dead --
Never knew there was worse things than dying.

For I'll go no more "Waltzing Matilda,"
All around the green bush far and free --
To hump tents and pegs, a man needs both legs,
No more "Waltzing Matilda" for me.

So they gathered the crippled, the wounded, the maimed,
And they shipped us back home to Australia.
The armless, the legless, the blind, the insane,
Those proud wounded heroes of Suvla.
And as our ship sailed into Circular Quay,
I looked at the place where me legs used to be,
And thanked Christ there was nobody waiting for me,
To grieve, to mourn and to pity.

But the band played "Waltzing Matilda,"
As they carried us down the gangway,
But nobody cheered, they just stood and stared,
Then they turned all their faces away.

And so now every April, I sit on my porch
And I watch the parade pass before me.
And I see my old comrades, how proudly they march,
Reviving old dreams of past glory,
And the old men march slowly, all bones stiff and sore,
They're tired old heroes from a forgotten war
And the young people ask "What are they marching for?"
And I ask meself the same question.

But the band plays "Waltzing Matilda,"
And the old men still answer the call,
But as year follows year, more old men disappear
Someday, no one will march there at all.

Waltzing Matilda, waltzing Matilda.
Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me?
And their ghosts may be heard as they march by the billabong,
Who'll come a-Waltzing Matilda with me?


Well, one more. I was reading The Man Who Would Be King when Bush attacked Afghanistan; do you suppose Bush has read Kipling? Object lessons could have been learned, about the wisdom of trying to do anything in Afghanistan. Then later, watched the movie; Michael Caine and Sean Connery, well done depiction of the book. It included this traditional song -- Chief O'Brien's song from STNG too:
Thomas Moore, 1779-1852

The minstrel boy to the war is gone,
In the ranks of death you'll find him;
His father's sword he hath girded on,
And his wild harp slung behind him;
"Land of Song!" cried the warrior bard,
"Tho' all the world betrays thee,
One sword, at least, thy right shall guard,
One faithful harp shall praise thee!"

The Minstrel fell! But the foeman's steel
Could not bring that proud soul under;
The harp he lov'd ne'er spoke again,
For he tore its chords asunder;
And said "No chains shall sully thee,
Thou soul of love and brav'ry!
Thy songs were made for the pure and free
They shall never sound in slavery!

US Civil War verse

The minstrel boy will return, we pray,
When we hear the news we all will cheer it.
The minstrel boy will return one day,
Torn perhaps in body, not in spirit.
Then may he play on his harp in peace,
In a world such as Heaven has intended,
For all the bitterness of man must cease,
And every battle must be ended

(and one more verse I found on the net)

Where's the minstrel boy? I've found him
Joining in the labour fray
With his placards slung about him,
'Shorter hours and better pay.'

;)

... and thanks for letting me share my belated remembrances.

.



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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-12-03 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Thank you for your post...
The Great War was indde one of the most horrific events in the long history of mankind.

Someday...we might actually learn that war is never the answer to situations, but rather the result of breakdown that leads to untold grief.

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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-12-03 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. and you (and notes for Canadians in the vicinity)
I'd wanted to post something closer to the appropriate hour, and then just didn't get the focus. (I was busy watching the act of remembrance ceremony on TV at the actual hour; every few years I trek down to see it in person, but it's actually a bit of a crowd here and the living room vantage point is better -- about 15,000 people attend every year.)


Info for Canadians who lost family members in a war.

Veterans Affairs has all sorts of stuff available on line if you're looking for detailed info. I found my great-uncle's enlistment form, and a map of the cemetary in France where he is buried, showing his grave (which my brother then visited a couple of years ago).

Start here for WWI, the Canadian Expeditionary Force: http://www.archives.ca/05/0518/051805_e.html

Veterans' Affairs records and collections:
http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=collections

The Canadian Virtual War Memorial: http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=collections/virtualmem
You can search by surname for records, and go to the Commonwealth War Graves site for burial details.

The Book of Remembrance is kept on Parliament Hill, and a page turned every day. If you happen to have a family member in the book, you're entitled (or were last time I checked) to one free copy of the page, full colour, complete with gilding. Now you can also get the page you want on line --
http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm/collections/books
-- like this:



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