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DRAFT: Would a Second Bush Term Mean a Return to Conscription?

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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 01:59 PM
Original message
DRAFT: Would a Second Bush Term Mean a Return to Conscription?
<snip>

So now that occupation "ifs" have become reality, concerns that the US military is stretched too thin are being voiced regularly. And news that the Pentagon is advertising for personnel to staff draft boards has notched up speculation. "This is significant," Dartmouth presidential scholar and former professor of strategy at the National War College in Washington Ned Lebow said. "What the department of defense is doing is creating the infrastructure to make the draft a viable option should the administration wish to go this route." Meanwhile, the Guardian openly wondered "why the Pentagon decided at this time it was necessary to fill staff bodies which had played no function since the early 1980s."

As early as last November, however, red flags were being raised. The Journal News in New York state, for example, featured an article regarding New York's Selective Service System need for draft board members in case "a military draft would ever become necessary." And Rep. Charles B. Rangel's Dec. 31 op-ed piece in The New York Times entitled "Bring Back the Draft" caused considerable uproar, especially as it was accompanied by legislation introduced by Rangel and Sen. Fritz Hollings to do just that.

"The experts are all saying we're going to have to beef up our presence in Iraq," Rangel said in the Nov. 3, 2003 edition of Salon.com. "We've failed to convince our allies to send troops, we've extended deployments so morale is sinking, and the president is saying we can't cut and run. So what's left? The draft is a very sensitive subject, but at some point, we're going to need more troops, and at that point the only way to get them will be a return to the draft."

As most point out, however, any mention of conscription would be ill-advised before the 2004 election. "A number of analysts said yesterday that while any public suggestion of a draft would be politically suicidal for U.S. President George W. Bush in an election year, he could find himself with few other options if he is returned for a second term and the fighting in Iraq is still raging," the Toronto Star recently reported. "I don't think a presidential candidate would seriously propose a draft," the Cato Institute's Charles Pena added. "But an incumbent, safely in for a second term -- that might be a different story."

<snip>

Link: http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/03/11/far03001.html

Question: Why aren't we using this possibility to our own advantage?

We should raise the spectre of the draft (Lottery, anyone?) becoming a reality if * gets a second term and does not have to worry about pissing off the voters any longer. If we were to make a large enough stink right now, we might force * to make one of those infamous 'Read My Lips' statements. "No New Draft!!!"

Of course with these lying sleaze-buckets, and no future political campaigns to worry about, they could pretty much do whatever they please, no?

:shrug:

Plus, I think we need Rangel and other Dems to back off of this. We need the reinstatement of Conscription to be a wholly owned Republican venture. Unfortunately, we screwed that pooch back when some Dems helped authorize this war in the first place.

:mad:

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CMT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think the chance of the draft coming back
is only minimal but at the highest it has been in decades. That is another reason why I think we need to get Bush out of the WH.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Less Minimal Than A couple Of years Ago, And...
"I don't think a presidential candidate would seriously propose a draft," the Cato Institute's Charles Pena added. "But an incumbent, safely in for a second term -- that might be a different story."

We NEED to force * to comment and commit on this. One way, or the other.

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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. Draft and Conscription are two completely different things.
In a draft registered members of the society are called up for duty. However you may never see service if there is no need to call you up.

In a conscript force everyone serves. There dosen't even need to be any shooting going on at the time. Everyone serves a period of time in federal military service. Germany and Isreal have a conscript system.

Just thought I'd throw this clarifier in there.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Someone check about Germany
I do not think everyone serves in Germany.

Also, there is a very specific option for civilian service rather than military service. They serve a few months longer, but around 20+% of those on the list do civilian service.

As I understand it, this option was put in the constitution in 49 as the result of the Nazi experience.
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I served in Germany when I was in the service.
Edited on Tue Nov-11-03 02:46 PM by DarkPhenyx
There are loopholes to the service, you are correct, but unless you exercise one of them you serve. No question. THe pay is for crap, but you do get a beer ration as part of your pay. A balance to everything.

Interesting side note...if you were born in Germany, in a German hospital, of American parents, but they failed to register you properly afterwards, when you turn 18 you get a conscript letter telling you that it is time for you to serve your time. It's written in German of course and you have to get a translation to find out what it says.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. They Are Used Interchangeably Here:
Link: http://www.henrymarkholzer.com/articles_f---_draft.shtml

Do you have other definitions\links for further further clarification???

Thanks.

:hi:
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Only my trusty dictionary...
Edited on Tue Nov-11-03 02:52 PM by DarkPhenyx
...and the knowledge I carry in my head from my time in service. Sorry.

I would say the author is probably using one or the other incorrectly. I'll have to read the article.

<on edit>

Well, American Heritage online says that a draftee is a conscript. I may have to conceed this one as well. However I disagree with the use of Conscript in this case. Not all conscripts are "drafted", using the definition of "draft" as applies to US service.

It could be another case of "squares are polygons, but polygons are not squares".
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. I applied to serve on a draft board
I decided not to go through with it as thinking about the decisions that I would be called upon to make, serving on a draft board would be immoral in my eyes.
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. looks like they plan on getting the boards going again
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=212933


got a feeling they will wait till 12/04 if at all possible, and just use former Iraqi military thugs in the meantime
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
10. To me there's almost no question or doubt...
Once the 2004 Stalinist-Farce of is over (and oh God, let me be WRONG about that), it is only a matter of time before the Busheviks do wht they need to do, what we all KNOW they are going to do, what THEY MUST do.

Just do the math and you'll see this is so...
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. My Thoughts As Well !!! That's Why we Need To Make This An Issue NOW !!!
Force the right to say where they stand on reinstituting the Draft NOW!!!

Let it become an issue for this year's election. Paint these suckers into a corner with it. Ask them if THEIR sons and daughters will be signing up in lieu of a draft. Put them on the spot, and on the record.

:mad:
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Zero Gravitas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. Yes
If * is "re"elected it would iomply that he got away with invading and occupying Iraq. This will embolded the neo-cons who will want to move on to Damscus or Theran. They will have 0 international support for this and the US military cannot occupy multiple countries at curent force levels. The only solution is to draft people (either in the US or in one of the "imperial" territories like the British used to do 150 years ago).
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. No
This would require an act of Congress, and that is one ovte that would be very unpopular back home.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. Kick For The Nite Krew !!!
:shrug:
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-12-03 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
15. Last Kick !!!
Goin to bed.

:hi:
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-12-03 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I Lied... This Is Just To Compliment The Draft Board Thread !!!
Lots of links in the original article above.

:shrug:
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