Bremer was Called Back Because we Need to Get Tough in Iraq! MSNBC

[KoKo]

retired Lt.General Bernard Traynor says. He says we've got to get tougher because if it looks like we are weak it will invite destablization in the whole Region. He says we need to operate with a "strong hand" and the Suni's won't like it. He says the "Liberation Strategy" isn't working and we need to remember we lost more soldiers in Viet Nam every day than we are losing in Iraq and we are going to have to be prepared to have casualties in this battle to bring Democracy to Iraq. :wtf:

So, we've gone from "Operation Remove WMD" to "Operation Iraqi Liberation" to "Operation Iraqi Freedom" to "Operation Mow 'Em Down?" (With comparisons to Viet Nam made ever so casually?)

What the hell is going on here? How can we keep changing why we went in and have any credibility. And what about our Congress? What about those votes for the IWR? They must have known. They must have known we would be in the Middle East until the last soldier was carried out? This was all that it was about from the beginning.

WAR........ANOTHER DAMNED VIET NAM! I hope this Retired General is an Idiot and Bremer is being sacked.....but he probably knows much more about it than we do and told the truth.

Are we prepared for this? Sixteen years of Viet Nam? Our Daughters and Sons drafted to fight?

[kentuck]

1. Something else that resembles Viet Nam...

The Old Honor Guard and the South Korean Tiger Division were in Viet Nam...Now they are both going to Iraq...

[Jacobin]

2. I share your frustration with the idiots in Congress who enabled

this disastrous invasion. That is why I will NEVER vote for or support any of the warmongers in congress who voted for it. They knew, they had the information, they were afraid of looking "weak" and they brought us a new Vietnam. They are disgusting and should all be jailed for war crimes.

In other news, they can recycle anyone to EyeRack to be the new Bremer and it won't make a tinkers damn. We are infidels who invaded and are occupying a Muslim country, and it will not be tolerated. Ever.

[RamboLiberal]

27. correction Old Guard is going to Africa

not Iraq. Was reported in NYT story - but still shows we are getting desparate for fresh troops to rotate in.

[AP]

3. I wonder if Bush has intentionally fucked up in Iraq so that they could

justify getting REALLY aggressive in the ME.

Now they can say, look, the soft approach didn't work. It's time to crack heads.

Probably not. But worth keeping in mind.

[Minstrel Boy]

5. probably not, but I bet

they can barely contain their glee.

Cracking heads, they know.

[KoKo]

6. AP that was Definitely my impression from what Traynor said.....I didn't

post everything he said. Just the highlights. He said things were deteriorating enough that we already looked weak and we needed to do something immediately before it "gets out of hand."

[kentuck]

9. The situation is definitely deteriorating....

Perhaps they will try to secure a larger perimeter around the compound??

[AP]

10. Tactical nukes, or some big new expensive weapons program?

Something to make the arms dealers very rich, I'm sure.

Also, they need to ratchet up the fear and instability.

In any event, they're playing the whole thing out in a way that's designed to win a November 2004 election, and not an November 11, 2003 election, so I caution anyone who thinks the chaos today inidicates Democrats are going to have an easy time next year.

[KoKo]

23. I hate to think what Rummy has in his "Toy Cabinet.!" The Man is Shop of

Horrors! The worst you can imagine about this group as our "Head of Government" always comes true. My God I think Rummy's been playing with weapons like an old friend of mine who belongs to "The Model Train Club!"

He plays in his basement with "toy soldiers and WMD...and has buddies over for a beer from the WMD Fortune 500 Companies where they play "Gotcha with Nukes and other Cruel Toys" into the wee hours of the morning. It's all like "Video Games" to this "Old Geezer Generation" as it is to our Teens! Instead of "Virtual Games" it's "Board Games!"

But, for all I know....they have some "Gen X'ers" who come in and whore for them with all the new "Virtual Games" so they get the best of ALL WORLDS!

It's all like a "Sci Fi" movie to me at this point. Old Geezers reliving Viet Nam with Kids Toys.....of Deadly WMD.....but in both cases no one is thinking of the Consequences of "MORTE!"

BTW: Not trashing "Geezers" or "Model Train" hobbyists, here. I could be one of them! It was the point that some people can be "very out of touch." And a quote from Churchill...I believe?(could be wrong) but "Old Men Make War for the Young Men Behind Them!" Something like that.

[arcane1]

7. I can tell you this

they certainly do NOT want any UN involvement in Iraq, and any event that affects the UN there is viewed with a suspicious eye by me...

[snippy]

16. I do not think so because I have seen several references to their

concern that public dissatisfaction with the situation in Iraq may make it more difficult to get public support for the next pre-emptive war. This was a casual comment at the end of a recent Newsweek article on Cheney.

[MUAD_DIB]

22. Maybe, but doesn't that sound like every B-movie

that has been made about an occupying power/force?

Star Wars

Dune

StarGate

Total Recall heh

<on edit>
In Reality

The Israel/Palestinian mess

The Tamil Tigers

Chenchnya

Columbia

The 50's Iranian Coup which lead up to the '79 revolution
</on edit>


The bad guys tighten the screws on the locals which only creates more soldiers for the Jihad...

I seem to recall Chimpy saying something like...

"I've seen the rerun of this bad movie and I am not going to sit through it again...


Pretty Ironic huh?

[regnaD kciN]

40. Reality?

Columbia

You mean the invasion of Columbia University during the 1968 protests? Or are you talking about Colombia? However bad a mess it is down there, and however much we may be involved in propping up the not-so-good-guys, that certainly is not a case of the U.S. as an occupying power...more like a continuation of the Reagan "bring democracy by helping our undemocratic 'friends' with weapons for their death squads" Central American policy of the 1980s. Revolting, yes, but we're not occupying the place.

[aquart]

37. We don't have the army strength to crack heads.

We can drop the BOMB and obliterate them, or continue getting the shit kicked out of us, or GET OUT NOW.

Because, if we stay, the price of peace in the ME is forty million dead and EVEN THEN IT WON'T WORK.

[Walt Starr]

4. And it's one, two, three, what are we fighting for?

Don't ask me I don't give a damn,
next stop it's IRAQNAM!

and it's five, six, seven, open up the pearly gates.
Ain't no time to wonder why
WHOOPEE we all gonna die!

[proud patriot]

11. better ryme

Don't ask me I don't give a damn,
next stop is a muslim land.

[Walt Starr]

13. I was keeping in the spirit of the original vietnam protest song

n/t

:D

Besides, Iraqnam is a good meme.

[alcuno]

8. Why call an ambassador? What does Bremer have to do with

military operations? He's simply the face of the occupation.

[Jacobin]

12. He's a military dictator in a suit.

[KoKo]

24. His $2,000 dollar suit's with $300. ties that Chimps taylor on Saville

Road supply him with. Complete with the "shoulder pads" du jour, and the "Cod Piece" to fit with the elegant style of Henry VII!

London/Blair....whatever.....YUCK!

[nostamj]

14. Major Combat Operations have Resumed...

in case anyone blinked, the US has resumed bombing runs on Iraqi targets..

this was in response to the missle strike (uh, wasn't that a CRASH that was under investigation 11 seconds ago?)

anyway, bombs away. but don't expect the lovely night vision fireworks footage because this isn't happening just in case something happens like bombing another wedding party (hey! aren't these pukes the defense of marriage pukes? nevermind I digress. it's either that or madness)

some count sheep to sleep, but this is the neocon lullaby:
:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:

[in_cog_ni_to]

15. So, that is what

all those damn planes were for! When do we start rioting?

[Unknown Known]

17. Destabilizing the ME has always been the goal of the PNACers

Change through Chaos - isn't that their secret moto?

[PurityOfEssence]

18. No more Mr. Nice Guy, huh?

Great.

Where are the missionaries?

How long has Chalabi left for this world?

[DoYouEverWonder]

19. According to Sanchez the air bombing has already begun!

Reuters


"The most important message is that we're going to get pretty tough," said Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, whose forces have unleashed air bombing for the first time since Bush declared major combat over on May 1.

"That's what's necessary to defeat this enemy and we're definitely not shy about doing that," Sanchez told a news briefing.

Washington blames die-hard supporters of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein and foreign guerrillas for the attacks.

"Not a single tool that we have available would be spared if necessary to defeat that enemy," Sanchez said. "Although the coalition can be benevolent, this is still the same lethal formation that removed the former oppressive regime."

[TNOE]

21. I am so sick of hearing 'THE ENEMY'

when did the Iraqi people become OUR ENEMIES. I thought it was just Saddam - so in order to get a few "terrorist" - which are probably mostly Iraqi's and moslems paying us back for killing their families and destroying their homes - now everyone is our Enemies. Of course they won't just come out and say we're losing too many soldiers, we're almost out of cannon fodder - so we must bomb again. Certainly the pukes don't think (I know, they do) that our bombs are so PRECISE that they will not kill Iraqi's - only terrorist. Yea, that's it. We've um got those um PRECISE bombs.

[KoKo]

28. Rockets Hit Baghdad as U.S. Vows to Get Tough! ..Thanks for Post!

Rockets Hit Baghdad as U.S. Vows to Get Tough
Tue November 11, 2003 04:09 PM ET
(Page 1 of 2)
By Andrew Gray

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Three rockets hit the fortified area of Baghdad where the U.S.-led administration is based after the top U.S. military commander vowed to unleash any weapon in his arsenal on guerrillas attacking his forces.

Other bombings Tuesday killed at least four people and wounded 10 in the country's two biggest cities.

A U.S. Army spokeswoman said three rockets -- not mortar rounds as had been initially thought -- landed inside the fortified "green zone" where the American-led administration is based. "Several vehicles were damaged in the green zone but there have been no injuries reported at this time," she told Reuters.

Dozens of U.S. soldiers and Iraqi police fanned out after the blasts. In one part of Baghdad, residents showed troops an area near a school where they said rockets had been launched.

Soldiers and police walked across rooftops with

[snippy]

20. Bush probably just wants to disarm some more Iraqis.

[librechik]

25. Save Collieforneea: send Ahnuld to Iraq to get tough!

getting tough will get our asses kicked eventually--by the whole world

[democracy eh]

26. danger danger

no good can come of this

[PlanetBev]

30. These chickenhawks don't know the meaning of tough

Those guys who have been setting off bombs and killing troops and civlians are of the same ilk that drove the Soviets out of Afganistan. The have a different view of time than we do. We want it over is a few days and they can go on and on and on, and eventually win by attrition. They ain't gonna quit. After losing 18,000 of their soldiers, the mighty Russian army had enough and bailed.

Yeah, this doesn't bode well.

[newyawker99]

41. Hi democracy eh!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

29. Can anyone spell "escalation"??

[IndianaGreen]

31. Operation Rolling Thunder & Phoenix Plan

Carpet bomb them, and assassinate the others.

[KoKo]

32. I.G/ didn't quite get your post....but, yes, I think it's bombs, but

precision bombs..those ones that go in your front door and back to your kitchen and take out your "microwave" according to US Govt.

IOW, the bomb blows through my front door but leaves LR/DR intact but goes straight for the "heat source." That's my oven/micro..or it continues to my garage for my "water heater."

That's what the Iraqi's are facing. Some damned "unknown force" whose targeting my house....doesn't want to destroy it..or me...unless I'm in my kitchen when the "sensor bomb" goes through seeking my microwave/oven or the water heater in my garage.

It's all pretty senseless isn't it. I might have a DU sticker on my bumper but US Military sends a "precision bomb" through my house.....I don't get killed...but, geeze, I gotta call in a plumber and a renovater to repair what they did??? How much does that cost me? And, where do I get reparations? :shrug:

[Jacobin]

33. Like bombing North Vietnam and Cambodia?

Or more ShockNAwe? That really worked. /sarcasm

[KoKo]

34. Sounds like they want to do "Shock & Awe" but where? Middle of Baghdad?

or is this setting the stage for Syria and Iran...that's what's scary.

[alcuno]

35. The Iraqi people are fairly unflappable. Bombing them will do little.

We were bombing Baghdad every night and people were still driving around in their cars. Been there, done that.

[Jaybird]

36. they wont get my son...n/t

[KoKo]

38. Kick.....because there's so much buzz around about Bremer, but the General

says War Ramping up.....New Marching orders.

[Mattforclark]

39. The Thanksgiving Bombing?

Rollin' Thunda redux? I hope we don't do something too crazy...