Who really cares about flag burning....

[Phatfish]

when there are so many more important issues facing our nation, i.e. poverty, healthcare, inequality, governmental and corporate misconduct, gun control, mass imprisionment, so on and so forth. The 1st admendment is important but the issue about flag burning is down my list quite a bit.

[wuushew]

1. conservatives,freepers,usual suspects etc.

n/t

[TexasMexican]

2. ...

I dont support flag burning, but I wouldnt want there to be a law that makes it illegal.

I would hope that anyone who does burn a flag buys a real made in the USA flag, that way alteast some small mom and pop flag making shop gets more business.

[Atman]

3. It's just a symbol, man!

"The 1st admendment is important but the issue about flag burning is down my list quite a bit."


Then you miss the point. Put it back up there on your list. Poverty, healthcare, inequality...they cannot be effectively battled without a right to free speech. Burning a symbol of government during times of injustice is a time honored SYMBOL, just as the flag is a cloth SYMBOL.

Burn the flag...it is only a symbol. But don't burn the constitution...it is the real deal.

[Bread and Circus]

4. good post/thread....

my sentiments exactly!

[HFishbine]

7. That's one thing that bother's me about Clarkies

They are awfully insensitive to the Constitution. First there was the carefree dismissal of Clark's efforts to help Axciom help the government extablish survelience dossiers on citizens, now this minor issue of the first amemendment. Seems to be a pattern developing.

Since gun control was mentioned above, what do the Clarkies think about the second amendment?

[Bread and Circus]

14. Look I am no constitutional scholar....

and as far as I know neither are you.

I am just saying that "Free Speech Zones" are a more
sickening issue when it comes to the 1st amendment.
You don't seem to care about that,
probably because you can't skewer Clark on the issue.

Clarkies shmarkies...

I got your number and all I know is the original post
here makes alot more sense than everyone whining about
burning flags.

Go burn a flag for all I care.

Do you care that Dean wants to outlaw it as well?

Good grief! If I couldn't publicly burn Ol' Glory
for attention it wouldn't be the end of my days.

Go vote for Lieberman, he's apparently against the ban
on flag burning.

As for me I think Dean, Clark, Gep, and Kucinich are wrong
on this. But you know what, in the grand scheme of things
this is a pittance. Only ideological hacks give two shits
about it.

There are more important things we can do for people and their
rights.

[VelmaD]

5. I do...

I flat out will not vote for a candidate in the primary who doesn't support freedom of speech. I may hold my nose and vote for them in the general election but I sure as hell won't actively work for them. This is a foundation issue for me. We cannot do what is necessary to ensure our other rights or to work for positive social change without absolutely guaranteed freedom of speech.

[K-W]

I care about it.

Obviously it is used as a diversion in politics, and it is a non issue in the sense that it rarely happens, but that doesnt mean we should ignore it as an issue. A candidate who doesnt recognize the fundemental violation of the basic tenents of freedom of experition involved in any restrictions on flag burning, not to mention how stupidly nationalistic deserves to be scrutinized for it.

Its not about the flag, its about the fact that the flag question reveals whether a person is nationalistic or truely believes in the concept of freedom of expression.

[DoYouEverWonder]

6. Considering the numerous ways

the use of the flag is abused, what difference is there between burning it or wearing it has a bandana? Neither is very respectful. Besides didn't that guy god say something about not have false idols? I think the flag might fall into that catagory.

[Vitruvius]

8. If some idiot burns a flag, it doesn't damage [u]the[/u] Flag, it damages

the reputation of the idiot who burned it. And it takes that flag out of the hands of somebody who shouldn't have it.

Burning a flag is unspeakably rude, and shows utter ill breeding, but otherwise is not a problem of any substance.

Misusing the Flag -- as Bu$h did by sending it into Iraq on a raid to steal their oil and enrich Halliburton -- is far, far worse.

[K-W]

12. Good grief

Burning the flag is a perfectly good symbol of protest. The flag represents alot of things, it is a symbol of the highest order, and therefore the symbolic destruction of the symbol creates a powerful message.

It is not rude. It has nothing to do with breeding(whatever that means)

You simply help the republicans when you insist that the flag should be worshiped. What Bush is doing with the flag isnt something strange and unnatural. The flag represents our country, the good and the bad, trying to pretend that it represents only the good plays right into the hands of those who would use it for ill.

[Vitruvius]

23. There are plenty of excellent ways to protest that are effective and

don't mobilize the Republican base -- as flag burning does.

And it's even more effective to get out and work for Democratic candidates. And you get to work with the nicest and most interesting people. So why not do both?

As for flag desecration, the worst flag desecration is Bu$h wrapping himself in the flag as he launches an unAmerican war of aggression to steal other peoples' oil and enrich Halliburton, as he shreds our liberties, as he gives our country to the criminal Republican rich.

And I'm not for "worshiping" the flag (unlike Bu$h* and his holy roller friends who are for this type of idolatry). But I am against burning it, tho' I absolutely support the First Amendment right of anybody to make an idiot of himself by doing so.

The flag belongs to us -- the people -- and not to the BFEE Rethugnican rich. Don't burn it -- take it back!

[Zorra]

9. I could care less.

I worry more about cross burning.

People should be able to burn flags if they want to. Flags mean nothing to me, they are just cloth. America is not a flag, it is the people, and the land, and the ideals of liberty and freedom.

It's a stupid issue.

[FrenchieCat]

10. my list of priorities.....

my list of priorities:

Beating Bush
Voting machines
War in Iraq
get rid of middle income tax cuts
Judge appointments
Abortion rights
Social Security
1987 FCC regulations brought back
Health Care/Prescriptions
Separation between Church and state
Education
Child Care
Medicare
Affirmative Action
Environment
Alternative Energy
Children's rights
Funding for the Arts
bankrupcy laws
Voter reform/Felons
balanced budget
Equal rights amendment
there may be a few in between that I hadn't though of.
flag burning amendment

[Skittles]

11. the people who wrap themselves in it

don'tcha know

[Octafish]

28. People like this?

I know more than a few people who were wrapped in the flag last time I saw them.

BTW: Unlike many — a surprising many on DU — they were all willing to defend your right to think and say whatever you wanted.

[in_cog_ni_to]

13. I don't like the idea

of the drastic measure of an ammendment. I support a persons right to burn that piece of cloth, if they feel the need but, it really is not that important at this time in our history. The problem with a constitutional ammendment, it is the 1st step to taking away more free speech rights...which, IMCPO, has already happened with the Patriot Act and The Free Speech Zone. I liken it to the abortion issue. The passing of the Late Term Abortion Ban was the 1st step to making abortion illegal. If you open that door? it can be a very slippery slope to eroding what rights we do have left. I honestly don't think that ammendment will get passed any time in the near future. This country is in such a damn mess, I think there's more important issues that will keep our congress occupied for YEARS to come...like INVESTGATING the Bush cabal!

[USAF Brat]

15. the issue is deeper than what it says on the surface...

it is not just a flag burning issue, but a issue that calls to us to remember what America is, and what being an American is all about.

Here is a bit from a letter I wrote a few years ago to all my representatives about this issue:

More than one man from each generation of my family has fought for freedom; from Joseph Sapp -a revolutionary war veteran from W. VA, to my father who fought not only in WWII, but in Korea and Vietnam. They fought for true freedom, not the kind you merely give lip service to. That simple. Freedom for themselves, their families, neighbors and countrymen to express opinion that was not popular or maybe not even correct. But they left their homes and families knowing they might not return and went to war to be shot at by real bullets -to defend those rights for all Americans. They also fought for Freedom to choose how and what to worship. But most of all they fought for freedom from the government dictating what could or could not be thought, said, or done. Generations of my family have passed on the great truth that the flag was to be respected and revered for the great symbol it is: a symbol of The Constitution, and The Bill of Rights which guarantee Freedom for all citizens. Without those things the symbol is empty and meaningless.

My father many times expressed to me that he fought for Freedom. Freedom for all Americans to have the same rights. He also reminded me often that as soon as any rights are eroded or removed, then the all the rest of our rights would be in immediate peril of becoming extinct. And so here you stand trying to deprive us of the very rights that the flag symbolizes; and engage us on that slippery slope of removing rights and freedoms that have been won by the lives so many of our brave men and women who have been proud call themselves Americans. Therefore you do your country and your flag no favor, but desecrate their true meaning. Shame on you.


While jailing protesters is common under authoritarian and totalitarian regimes, it is not in America. Diversity of thought has always been a great American strength; without it we weaken our very foundation.


In conclusion I would ask you as my representative not to support amending the First Amendment for the first time in history and to oppose any effort to ban flag desecration. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this very important issue.

[Egnever]

16. I do!

will probably start burning them in 2004 if bush is re elected

[MoonRiver]

17. It's way, way, way down on my list of priorities

not quite last, but dern sure near.

[Military Brat]

18. Why burn it when you can wave it upside down?

Why burn a perfectly good flag, with those pretty red stripes and that absolutely lovely blue background and white stars. You'll pollute the atmosphere, baby!

Just fly it, wave it, hang it, whatever, upside down. By doing that, you are displaying the flag as a distress symbol, which pretty much sums it up for America right now.

And don't forget to buy your U.S.P.S. flag postage stamps and stick those on your envelopes upside down, too.

[andym]

19. Bush, Rove, and Chaney "care" !?

Bush, Rove, and Chaney "care" !

Just like Bush Sr and Atwater "cared" when they destroyed
Dukakis on this "issue"

[mrgorth]

20. If the shrub wins

I think a lot of people are going to care quite a bit. No law.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eileen_d]

22. I certainly don't think there should be an amendment

And I don't think it should be banned by any other law. I think it should be legal. I don't respect people who burn the flag, although I think they have a right to do it.

But you know what? I *don't* think it's a free speech issue and I don't think it is a constitutional right to burn the flag. A flag is a symbol, burning it is an action. There are about six million *actual* free speech/first amendment issues I would prioritize over the right to burn the flag. And a candidate's position on the issue matters to me not at all. The whole issue is symbolic. There are far too many concrete issues out there.

[wndycty]

24. I care. . .

. . .and I am disappointed in Clark's position, but I am still a very passionate supporter of his candidacy.

[Le Taz Hot]

25. I do

The Founding Fathers were learned men who were well versed in Greek and Roman forms of Democracy and other forms of government as well. They were educated and studied and knew the pitfalls of governments past and contemporary. The Founding Fathers put Freedom of Speech FIRST for a reason. "We hold these truths to be self evident" was and continues to be the most revolutionary idea in the history of government. Please. Think about those words: "We hold these truths to be self evident." This is far more important tha the act of burning the flag.

[Zephyrbird]

26. I care. You know why??

Because the right is looking for attack points. I come on this morning and all this talk on DU about flag burning, including a post asking who here has burned a flag. Good grief, it's fairly obvious! Scammity & Homely will be trumpeting about DU, the website full of flag burners, by the weekend! They'll be braying it all over talk radio. Heyzeus marima!

Frankly, I would never burn the flag, but if somebody wants to do it, well, it IS STILL a first amendment right whether I like it or not.

If Clark is in favor of an amendment, well, I think he's wrong; however, folks, under that same amendment he has the right to say that he's in favor, just as we say we can burn it because it's a protected right.

So. I agree there are more important things to worry about, but be aware the right is looking for attack points, and they're picking them up here.

I smell something, and it isn't my morning coffee.

[lapislzi]

27. I care

If the flag is a symbol, torching it is also a symbol. This nation should be in the business of preserving freedoms, even the ones all of us don't agree with, not taking them away.

[rasputin1952]

29. IAm not in favor of an amendment, nor am I in favor of flag burning...

I would not take away the "right" to burn the flag, just as I would not take away the "right" to fly it.

In both cases, there are constant abuses of what I consider a wonderful symbol of liberty.

As posted so many times above, there are far more weighty items that need to be addressed than this. BTW, I have not just awoken and missed a new rash of flag burnings have I? Inquiring minds want to know.

This is a Red Herring. Keep your eyes and ears peeled, something is trying to make it in under the radar.

:kick: