A State Law Would Pin the T-Word on Animal-Rights and Eco Protesters

[drfemoe]

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0346/otis.php

More than fur would fly when animal rights activists and, perhaps, environmental groups mount protests in New York, under a new law proposed by an upstate legislator: Protesters would be considered "terrorists."
... ...
Assemblyman Smith insists that the bill doesn't threaten First Amendment rights. "My bill in no way aims to stop picketing or leafleting," he says, "but there are some radicals out there who consistently brag that they've started fires and destroyed property, and they've got to be penalized. Those radicals are the ones I'm looking for."
... ...
Kerr and other lawyers contend that the animal- and eco-rights movements already are in the crosshairs of the Bush administration. At the moment all eyes are on Greenpeace, which ran afoul of the Department of Justice last year after two activists boarded a boat carrying wood that Greenpeace says was illegally exported from the Amazon and hung banners over the side that read "President Bush: Stop Illegal Logging." For that act, Greenpeace has been charged with violating an obscure and ancient "sailormongering" law that prohibits unauthorized persons from boarding a boat before it's moored. " ... continued ...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't starting fires and destroying property already illegal???

[Don_G]

1. Just Enforce The Laws On The Books

There are plenty of groups that work peacefully to achieve their goals. I see no need of lumping a group that wants to block commercial development of a National Park or fund-raising for an animal shelter along with the PETA nuts and Earth First extremists.

[Roses_R_Red]

3. Very true

But then someone could make the argument against hate crime legislation, saying that murder is murder, why add the hate crime wording to it.

I would have to see the wording of the proposed law and then decide. PETA is on the edge, but ELF risks lives and personal property.

[newyawker99]

7. Hi Roses_R_Red!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Webster Green]

6. Earth First is great!

Extreme tactics are required to stop the timber barons. Earth First is not a terrorist organization, though Pacific Lumber Co. has aired radio ads accusing them of that.

[madddog]

18. Define "Extreme Tactics"

[curse10]

10. Yes, those crazy PETA nuts

god forbid people stop engaging in specieism and think more of the creatures that share this earth with us.

~PETA nut

[DoNotRefill]

16. Peta is insane.

We have a local marine museum. They wanted to set up a dolphin rescue and rehabilitation exhibit. Their plan was to take rescued, sick dolphins, and nurse them back to health so that they could be released back into the wild. It was a win-win situation...people could see the dolphins, the dolphins wouldn't die, and as soon as they were well again, they'd be released back into the wild. It was a classic pro-conservation measure.

PETA staged loud and nasty protests, because they didn't want the dolphins to be in captivity, they'd rather the dolphins not be rescued and die. I shit you not....they were screaming to let the dolphins die rather than be rehabilitated.

They're nutjobs.

[bicentennial_baby]

22. Link

Why don't you back up your claim about PETA with some evidence?

"they were screaming to let the dolphins die rather than be rehabilitated"

Prove it. Something tells me we're getting a one-sided account here.

[drfemoe]

24. Don't have a link for this either

right here .. but did read about the peta mink fiasco.. they let a farm of minks go loose and the starving animals starting eating each other!!! When the farm finally got some of them rounded up, they tried to put them back in cages with their siblings, because they won't eat their own family ... but the only way they could know for sure was if they ate one another or not.

I'm not posting this to excuse illegal or crazy actions .. but something like this is just a crack ..

For activists, the danger lies in how A4884 defines "terrorist" organizations, as "any association, organization, entity, coalition, or combination of two or more persons with the primary or incidental purpose of supporting any politically motivated activity through intimidation, coercion, fear, or other means." Activist groups fear that lawful dissent, such as demonstrations, letter-writing campaigns, and leafleting, might fall into any one of those categories, particularly the catchall phrase "other means." The bill also seeks to prohibit people from gathering photographic or videotaped evidence of illegal or harmful activities, effectively shutting down the camcorders and other tools used by 21st-century protesters. Additionally, the bill calls for the creation of a state-run website where people convicted of "eco-terrorism or animal-rights terrorism" would be identified with photographs and stigmatized, much as states do with child molesters.

I'm upset about what Greenpeace is going through .. but have no idea what to 'do' about it .. citizens = less power .. 'government' = more power ..

[Zero Division]

2. Wonder how willing they would be to..

label radical anti-abortionists with the big T-word?

[Roses_R_Red]

4. Some Are

The ones who blow up clinics are terrorists, in my view, anyway.

[Mike Niendorff]

5. And, while we're at it: what about the KKK?

I'm real curious if this new definition of "terrorism" will also cover real domestic terrorist groups like the KKK, or if it only applies to "left wing protestors". Maybe someone ought to ask the bill's author about this (if only to get him on-record as he tap-dances around the question).


MDN

[MadHound]

8. And there are some here who would applaud such a move

From reading past threads on PETA, ELF, EarthFirst, there is enough hate and vitrol posted that it leads me to believe that there are people here that would applaud this law, and wish for it nationwide.
For those people all I have to say is that it won't stop with "radical eco protestor", but would grow to accomodate ALL groups on the left, including this little fringe group that you participate in here. This is simply the opening of another front in the perpetual war against the left. The above mentioned groups actually DO a large amount of good, but due to some of their more outrageous acts, it reflects badly on all of us. The powers that be know that there would be little fuss from the left, for we don't want to be tarred with the brush of "extremism". However, it would soon be just a matter of creeping encroachment. ALF today, ACLU tommorrow, DU next week.

Think about that before you put your hands together.

[curse10]

15. Excellent point

they start with PETA and ALF- but where does it stop?

[curse10]

9. Man, I'm a terrorist?

Sweeeeeeeeet. :eyes:

[Loonman]

11. Depends

Depends if it's just protesters or those tree-spiking, vandalizing, development burning, assholes in Earth First.


I hate those ALF/ELF motherfuckers as well.

Buncha scumbag idiots.

[curse10]

12. Nice!

Glad to see everyone buying into the anti-animal cruelty movement. Let's continue to torture and terrorize the animals of this world! Oooh! Maybe we can go back to the old days when everyone put bleach in rabbit's eyes, psych researchers did brain surgery on un-anesthisized chimps, and kittens were put in decompression chambers so we could learn that they die when that happens! Animal cruelty is fun!

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[curse10]

14. Oooh! Nice one!

I'm actually not a "tree hugger". I do my part, recycling and all, but animals are the real issue here.

If you actually took the time to understand animal research and it's lack of impact on real science you might change your mind. Each year millions and millions of animals are killed. For what? Medicine that works differently in human bodies and so we can have more lotions and beauty products.

If we always relied on animal research we wouldn't have penicillin (it's deadly in rats and other rodents, iirc), insulin (kills guinea pigs (oh the irony!)), and numerous other drugs that have been deemed "safe" (and I use that word with a bit of sarcasm) have been known to kill humans.

Finally things are starting to change, but with no thanks to people for animal research- the LD50 test is finally being phased out (we'll see how long that takes :eyes: ) PETA has gotten MAJOR cosmetic companies to stop testing on animals (Revlon and L'Oreal being two of many). But companies like gillette and proctor and gamble won't ever change their tortuous ways if people don't wake up and start protesting this is going to continue to happen:

[DoNotRefill]

17. Uh huh....

Like the "no domesticated animal" wack-jobs.

That's be just nifty...outlaw the keeping of pets, virtually FORCE them to become feral, and then watch them breed and die en masse...

Stopping animal cruelty must include things like stopping overbreeding by domesticated species, taking proper care of them, et cetera. The lunatic fringe discredit ALL of us, whether it be PETA types fronting for ALF, or the ELF idiots burning down car dealerships and houses, or the wide variety of "direct-action" terrorist wannabes out there.

They're pathetic nut-jobs who are counter-productive to the overall movement's goals.

[curse10]

23. Ummm. PETA does not advocate "no domesticated animals"

In fact, PETA encourages people to have companion animals.

And, one of their biggest programs is stopping overbreeding and the over population of dogs and cats.

PETA is not just about animal testing. PETA and their supporters also advocate proper companion animal care, neutering, spaying, getting dangerous, exotic animals out of the hands of inexperienced people, and finding homes for unwanted animals- including abused farm animals.

[bobbyboucher]

26. Thanks curse10,

I've noticed a great deal of anti-PETA people on this board and cannot for the life of me understand why. They all seem to use the "they are out there" card, or the "they hurt our cause" card. Funny, but I think that maybe some of those objectors might not be on our side.

PETA draws attention to cruelty. PEROID. Yet some of these so-called liberals and progressives attack them mercilously. Hmmmmmm.

Guilt maybe?

[MadHound]

21. I hope you remember those words Loonman

After those "ALF/ELF motherfuckers" and other envirmental groups are gone, for once they are, our enviroment will be torn to shreds. Societal/cultural changes aren't brought about by centerist elements that are willing to cozy up to, and recieve money from the very institutions they're trying to change(think Sierra Club here). Change is brought about by "extremist" groups who won't sell out, and who are willing to put it all on the line to make their point. This has always been true. Where would unions be without the Wobblies and other "extremist" labor groups? Where would the womens' movement be without that "extremeist" group NOW? Where would the gay rights/AIDS activism movement be without those "extremeists" from ACT-UP? The list goes on and on. It is the "extremeist" who force vital issues into the mainstream, and thus bring about societal/cultural change.

If you don't wish to wake up one day and find our planet an eviromental hell-hole, I would recommend that you rethink your position. You don't have to join them, or even give them money(though that would be a kind thing to do). All you have to do is have an open mind, be done with your vitrolic hatred of them, and get out of their way. Then once they've pushed these issues into the mainstream, before the voter, you can decide with your conscience.

[preciousdove]

19. Things that make you go mmmmmm?

A new million dollar not yet occupied home was torched in Forest Lake Minnesota last week. All the TV newscasts led with how it could be eco-terrorism because there had been phone "threats" after the house was featured in the local paper. (Made me want to know how one would go about threatening by phone to an unoccupied house.)

We have had some PETA stunts here but this is new and because of the way the story was presented as eco-terroism before the embers had cooled made me wonder if it was an SAIC-like random chaos stunt instead.

Note to SAIC-like spies. Stunts such as these are not apt to work real well here, as jokers my High School vandalized our own high school in the late 60's and it got blamed on our interdistrict rival high school. Most folks here always consider all the angles.

[hatrack]

20. Insurance fraud, perhaps?

You don't need radical environmental motives to torch a building if it's money that you're after.

[drfemoe]

25. Right and

slapping the "T" word on everyone who has a different agenda is not the path to enlightenment, better laws, safer living, or resolving culture clashes.

This word should be used sparingly for real terrorists or it hurts both semi-legit groups and the 'war' to fight real terrorism. Blurs the line .. maybe that's the intended purpose?

[BurtWorm]

27. Is dousing a supermodel in red paint an act of terrorism?

How about dousing an upstate state senator?

[slackmaster]

28. If the supermodel is nude or wearing very little it would be art

And I will hold you personally responsible for posting pictures here in the event that occurs.

[xchrom]

29. they{the gov} stated early on after 9-11

that they would use security legislation to go after more than just middle east terrorists.
this is a reiteration of that position.
probably have arrests in mind. and this is a precursor.
i'm another one who doesn't mind peta and earth firsters.
mostly claims against them have been fabricated by the logging industry so they can get at the old growth.
but that doesn't mean they aren't tough -- they are.

[ursacorwin]

30. be afraid people

think of what happened to groups in the 60s & 70s... inflitrated, made to look like extremists by plants, legislated into submission with 'anti-gang' and 'anti-drug' laws.

today, it's the t-word. and the above poster is right: the order is ELF, PETA, ACLU, DU. all our names and posts are already on a list somewhere, and there's a think tank or talking head slobbering on right now about how we are 'damaging american' and 'helping the terrrists.' you don't need to do anything wrong for them to arrest you, and they can make up evidence faster than you can afford a lawyer to get you out of it.

too many people here just don't understand how bad it already is, i imagine that's in part because so many are not people of color, who live this shit every day.

[Classical_Liberal]

31. Yes, but apparently he wants these people

at guantanamo, and in front of a military tribunal. This bill is wacked.

[Hep]

32. Isn't terrorism defined as

scaring people as coercion?

If the shoe fits. I've considered some ARA's to be terrorists long before calling people terrorists was cool.

[tom_paine]

33. Just the beginning...

I shudder for the future of the Imperial Subjects of Amerika.

These are the Good Old Days.