Semi-coherent rant about expressing opinions in the workplace

[lapislzi]

mods, feel free to move this wherever you like. If it's like most of my threads, it will sink like a stone anyhow.

I was discussing *'s UK visit with another anti-Bush colleague, and mentioned how amusing I thought the "Bare Your Bum to Bush" idea was. Another woman--not part of the discussion, I hasten to add--made a sound of utter contempt and disgust. This is the same woman who threatened to report me when I asked if she voted (She said it was none of my business and she would report me for harassment if I asked her again). I said again that I found the idea of baring one's ass to Bush funny, but I didn't say I would do it or that I endorsed the practice (even though I would and I do). Just that I found it funny.

Ms. Uptight said "it's disrespectful!" (Sheesh, nothing gets by her, you know?). My reply: "Respect has to be earned. Bush has earned none of mine, and little of Britain's, by the sound of it." She replied that one is obliged to respect the president, no matter what.

I say rubbish (not out loud, of course). I respect the office, not the pretender to it.

This woman is becoming an increasing thorn in my side...as a manager, I sometimes have to oversee her work, which is hard enough because she's so tightly wrapped (about everything. Everything). Do I have to censor my speech indefinitely, or should I tell her to just suck it up? Or was there a missed opportunity to make a better point here?

End of rant...thanks, DU.

[Loonman]

1. Ask her if she respected Clinton

Did she feel obliged to do that?


:)

[Iris]

2. If you sometimes manage her,

consider how it would feel if your manager went on and on about how Bush is probably the best president ever.

However, since she butted into the conversation, I would used the old "This is an a-b conversation, so "c" your way out of it" (but maybe in a little nicer way.) Or, "I don't discuss politices with underlings" (but, once again, in a nicer way!)

BTW - Have you heard about the "Get Rid of Your Bush" campaign? Seems some British women are going Brazillian and sending their pubes to Blair with a note telling him to get rid of HIS Bush!

Those Brits - so crudely funny!

[lapislzi]

5. LOL...pretty good

Incidentally, this woman feels that political discussions--ANY political discussions--are "inappropriate" in a place of business. Although the owners don't care (they are mostly progressive), this woman's pronouncements about politics and other subjects are having the effect of "Harrison Bergeronization" of the office--pretty soon nobody will be able to discuss anything for fear of offending Ms. Uptight.

(Ms Uptight's favorite--and only--subject is cute and not-so-cute guys. Occasionally she goes non-linear and discusses recipes)

[denverbill]

12. They are inappropriate.

Why do I say that? Because my boss, and virtually every coworker I have is a die-hard repuke.

I'd hate to think that a person's politics would influence a superior's work-opinion.

[HFishbine]

3. Sounds like you handled it well

Bravo!

[Iris]

14. Yes. I try not to engage in that kind of discussion at work b/c

Ilive in a pretty conservative area.

However, it seems to me it would be easier for an uptight conservative to find another job if she is offended by progressive politics than it would be for someone for whom the situation were reversed.

[Iris]

17. sorry, I was trying to reply to #12!

[SlavesandBulldozers]

4. i would say

leave your politics out of the workplace, unless of course you agree on something then have at it. Generally it invites the HR meeting eventually.

[histohoney]

6. I to am a supervisior

Be aware that we have to be just a bit more cautious. Yes we have a right to our opinions and our free speech but lets use some brains here.
1. Are you having this discousion out in the main work place, or a breakroom. I tell my people the main lab is "home" to all of us while working, tread lightly remember this a professional work area do not distract or bait others here. The breakroom or ones office is the place to have talks that may not be approprate for the main work area. You can close your door or people can leave the breakroom but everyone's stuck in the lab.

2. RED ALERT HONEY, we may take "Buns up" and the word ass lightley but other may not. What ever you do NOT mention the "Bush for Bush" you are so close to sexual harasment it's not funny. You your self said she was wrapped tight, you've got to know she'll freak at that.Often courts take into acount the employies limits more than those of a managers(Your paid to keep the peace and keep the work going). You right or wrong will be judged at a higher standered.

3. Let her know that you have a rights too but if she does not like to hear your political opinions she might just ask NICLEY that you keep your voices down. Also tell her YOU better not hear her talking about Bush, Gore, Clinton ect...either, that street runs both way.

[lapislzi]

7. Thanks, histohoney!

That's good advice. You should also know (talk about your irony here)that my company publishes and sells (among other things) sex books--which she strongly and vocally objects to, although she has not yet exercised her option NOT to work here! She also gets along with very few people at the office.

You're right...you're right. I usually try to behave to the higher standard to which you refer. I should not have risen to the bait.

BTW, welcome to DU
:toast:

[BiggJawn]

13. Uh, what KIND of sex books?

Sorry, but since the ban went in in the lounge....

Perhaps HR could suggest to her that she and your company are just not a "good fit" and then "Right-size" her?

[lapislzi]

15. I only wish!

We've done a very pretty and tasteful adaptation of the Kama Sutra, along with some little "sexy" kits for people to give as gifts. We're developing a Kama Sutra kit for Spencer's as well. Google "A Lover's Guide to the Kama Sutra" and you'll probably find me, because I edited it.

I had to have a 3-hour meeting with this woman and the publisher about why the Kama Sutra is/is not appropriate for us to publish, and how, as a company employee, she would be required to discuss this book with customers if called upon to do so. It was totally tedious and I really do wish she would exercise her option not to work here!

[joyautumn]

16. objecting to sex books is political speech

okay, so she initiates politically motivated speech, aimed directly at pressuring the company to consider her political beliefs in their policies and practices, in ways that could affect the bottom line. so she's just in direct contradiction with herself here -- there should be no political speech in the workplace, unless it's me lobbying the company in favor of my political and moral views.

sounds like management needs to consider setting some kind of policy on political speech and political lobbying in the workplace. she may be contradicting herself, but that just means there's a management gap here. she doesn't know what the standards of conduct are, so how can she but contradict herself? in the end, she has a right to try to get comfortable with her workplace, whatever that means to her. if she really is against political speech at work, and is willing to keep her political views to herself if there is a policy forbidding it, then the owners can set that policy, or it can set a policy that allows political speech, but it would be best if they justified this in relation to the nature of the business and the job descriptions of the workers. knowing she doesn't want to be subjected to political speech, and is willing to forego her own political speech in return, it could be seen as singling her out if management then sets a policy that explicitly allows political speech against her stated wishes.

it would be best if the owners took her concerns seriously and everyone involved sat down and talked things over in the spirit of cooperation. then a good solution might emerge along with the good will that hopefully gets generated. i have to sympathize with anyone who's a lone dissenter, regardless of their views -- this is a test of the company's commitment to non-discrimination. personally, i think success at non-discrimination in the workplace is a goal well worth the risk of seriously considering severe restrictions of speech in the workplace, as long as the restrictions are evenly and consistently applied. perhaps a non-intrusive political speech rule could be applied -- consensual emails and notes are okay, forcing others to hear your political speech is not. but maybe that's too restrictive for a publishing house, or maybe it's particularly appropriate since it's all about the power of the written word, i don't know.

[lapislzi]

19. If you object to sex books

then you probably should not work for a company that publishes them. Generally, this company is very laid-back, and doesn't hassle people for anything, as long as they get their work done. Politcal discussions are popping up all the times, and nobody really objects to them (except this woman).

The question becomes, then, what is offensive? Is offensive anything anybody says it is? I have a real problem with pandering to the lowest common denominator, although I know it happens all the time.

[histohoney]

21. Thanks

Heads up friend, it's Friday. Take off 15 min. early and get a cold one.

[joyautumn]

8. civil rights

i think you should respect her wish not to be subjected in the workplace to questions about her political activities or challenges to her political beliefs. otherwise you really are verging on discriminating against her on the basis of her political beliefs. apologize for asking if she votes, because that really is an inappropriate question from a manager to someone you oversee, even if only sometimes.

by the same token, you have the same right not to have her come barging into your discussions and harassing you about your political beliefs. i think she has the right to groan at whatever she hears, though. and if you respond to her groan you're inviting her into the discussion at that point. you don't have to censor yourself in talking with others who want to hear what you have to say, but if she's in hearing range you may have to let her have the last word, or the last groan, so that she is not being forced to listen and then required to stuff down any visceral reaction she has to it. you are responsible for the fact that you choose to say it where she has no choice but to hear it, so i think you have to allow her the right to let out an initial reaction, at least, to what she didn't expect or choose to hear.

if she suddenly said something you found profoundly offensive, and it was only natural for you to say "rubbish" or something like that, well, i think she'd have to put up with your reaction as well. but since you're a manager, it's probably incumbent on you to restrain yourself a bit since you're in a position of power over her in the workplace. it's one thing for a subordinate to call your political beliefs rubbish -- it's another for a superior who may have some direct influence on your ability to make your living, to say that about you. you might have to be satisfied with sighing and shaking your head in disbelief when you know she can't see you, or something. so yes, i think as a manager you do need to censor yourself to a certain degree, but that doesn't have to mean allowing yourself to be bullied or harassed or prevented from having normal discussions with others in the office, unless there are explicit policies restricting political speech in your workplace that apply to all.

[lapislzi]

11. It was conversational!

It was a case of "yeah, I voted on the way in to work. Did you vote?"
I am NOT harassing her about her (lack of) politics!

While I agree that I should not have risen to her bait, I don't believe that asking if someone voted is harassment.

For the record, I ended today's discussion by saying, "Well, that's just my opinion," and changing the subject to something work-related.

I still resent the idea that I have to censor myself to pander to the sensitivities of one uptight employee. (I didn't say I wouldn't do it; just that I resent it).

[joyautumn]

26. accidental discrimination and policy

i hear you. it's not how you meant it, though -- it's the untenable position she may have felt put in by your question. she may have wondered what her voting behavior had to do with her standing as an employee. certainly no harm was intended, but just as certainly, some bit of harm (not in the legal sense) was done. if she's uptight, it may be the result of post-traumatic stress or some other disorder, in which case she's protected under ADA. she may be on some medication that makes her uptight -- you have no idea what may be behind her clearly side-of-the-bell-curve behavior. the non-discrimination laws are there to make sure everyone can make a living unfettered, including chronically uptight people and right-wing crusaders. she felt threatened, put on the spot, so management as a whole must show her that it is committed to making sure she not feel threatened or put on the spot, and that her political views or (non-)activity have no bearing on her standing as an employee or her chances for advancement. and if you don't ask her about her political activity again, nothing illegal has occurred because you took seriously her first expression of distress and took timely action to set things right. (disclaimer -- i'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, just my lay activist understanding of the law).

certainly don't let her intimidate you and chill your speech with the threat of 'reporting' you or lawsuit or whatever. just make sure she understands that you do not want her to feel threatened or in a position where she has to choose between her job and her political or moral beliefs or disposition.

of course you resent having your speech chilled, and she has no right to presume to police and enforce whatever she thinks should be the company policy. i doubt you resent the principle that those in power should be careful what their words might be taken to imply by those subordinate in power. but that's different from letting her intimidate you and bully you, which it sounds like she's been doing. if you are careful to make sure that you respect her rights, and her lower position of power, then you will be in a position to keep a record of any incidents where she attacks you or threatens you or tries to impose non-existent company policies. at that point, she could face disciplinary action, and deservedly so. obviously, i'm not saying, try to get her fired. i'm just saying, your feelings matter too, and if you're feeling threatened by her, even if you're her manager, you have a right to make sure there is a check on her behavior. hopefully, though, making overt gestures to show her you want her to feel safe and secure in her job whatever her politics or morals will put an end to her targeting you for verbal abuse, if she's doing it because she feels threatened (NOT to say that the verbal abuse is excusable just because she feels threatened).

and i still think the owners need to address this issue, facilitate dialogue and listen to everyone, and come to an agreeable consensus on a policy, even if no policy would be necessary if not for her -- it's precisely the loner who doesn't fit in that the policies should be designed to accommodate, with an eye to minimal burden or disruption for the others of course. without a policy they are leaving you twisting in the wind as well as her, effectively discriminating against you both, and it'll never be resolved.

[lapislzi]

27. Thank you for the thoughtful reply

Actually, the owners and management (myself included) have bent over backwards to accommodate this woman's many and varied "issues," including her objection to some of the books we publish (see above), and her personality clashes with virtually every other employee in this organization. I think there is little question that she is a case of "poor job fit" but she refuses to see it. Because she is competent in her position, she will not be fired; because she consistently refuses to accept greater responsibility, she will never be promoted.

It's a small company (> 25 employees). We have little patience with people who refuse to put paper in the copier because "it's not my job." Yes, you can go on about company policies, but the personnel policy for this company is about 2 pages long, and one of those pages lists the paid holidays. Policy amounts to "don't harass each other; show up on time; don't come to work naked; we're all adults here." I think she would probably thrive in a place with more structure.

I make a point of NEVER pulling rank with people, because I started at the bottom of this company and I am not about to forget it. I would never ask a staffer to do something I was not fully prepared to do myself. She knows this. I don't want this to be a "power" issue. I don't play that, and the people who try to don't last long here.

[spooky3]

28. just to clarify

under federal law, private sector employees do not have the same "rights" to political expression at the workplace or non-discrimination on the basis of politics as they have rights to non-discrimination on the basis of race, religion, gender, etc. Unless there is a state or local law giving them more rights, generally a person cannot be illegally "harassed" for political differences, as they can be for racial or sexual harassment.

Caveats: I am not speaking about the managerial or ethical implications of what the manager did or what is the best policy, and I agree with much of what you say otherwise. I am speaking only about the law, as a non-attorney, but as an expert in some workplace issues.

[Brian Sweat]

9. I never start political dicussions at work,

but I always end them.

[TrogL]

10. Stop discussing politics at the workplace

Same thing with sex, drugs and rock and roll.

Your life will be a lot easier.

[AP]

18. People should be able to talk about politics the way they talk about sport

in the office.

I wish people had more discussions about politics. I think the notion that it's not right to talk about politics is perpetrated by people who don't want the illogical buble of conservativism to be easily punctured. Don't talk about it and the Republicans can stay stupid.

We need to talk about politics more, and all the time too.

But people need to find a way that's non-confrontational and respectful of the other person's opinion.

So what I would do is ENCOURAGE this woman to talk. Listen closely to what she's saying, and then respond politely. If she cuts you off, or starts talking about Clinton's penis, tell yer that you listened politely to her and you'd like her to listen politely to your opinon.

Also, be very polite. Say things like, "I understand how you could have that misimpression" and "I appreciate your anxiety and fear"...stuff like that.

[lapislzi]

20. That's just it--she has none

She finds politics distasteful.

[AP]

22. Talk about THAT with her.

Ask her questions. Use the Socratic method. She may find it distasteful, however politics does have a huge impact on her life and on everyone's life. Ask her if she thinks maybe that there might be people who'd like the public to find politics distasteful so that they're discouraged to vote in their best financial interests for Democrats.

[lapislzi]

24. A little background

This woman could be my alter ego. We started at this company on the same day--the same day! We are both women who were going through very difficult divorces at the time. We're close in age. You would think we'd have a great deal in common.

Now I'm a manager, and she is in exactly the same position she was when she started at the company. She has something negative to say about EVERYONE who works here, and she won't as much as fill the photocopier with paper because "it's not part of customer service."

I wouldn't dream of trying to engage her in a thoughtful discussion. Then she would report me for harassment for sure.

[histohoney]

25. What should be and what is

can be worlds apart.
Yes, it would be great if you could talk about politics with anyone but that just will never be. People are so different in their upbringing. I have a love of debate and politics but I come from a family (Dem dad, Rep mother) were that happened all the time. My folks showed me you can discuss,disagree and debate and still get along. We kids were encouraged to ask and question political ideas and to not take such things personal. Plus my dad is a doctor, so we could ask questions about sex "PRETTY" openly.(Some things they didn't want to know I think)

BUT, (there's always a but) some families teach their kids not to discuss politics, sex and religion. I feel sorry for them, I don't like it but I'm mind full of it. It is not my place to change their upbringing or to make them uncomfortable. I just feel sad for them, they'er missing out on so much fun!
P.S. Sorry for the type-o's, I am trying to do a report and this at the same time.

[SemperEadem]

23. If a reasonable person would feel that your comments were offensive

then I would say turn it down to 90. But seeing that she is not a reasonable person, interjects herself into conversations of which she is no part by audibly registering her disgust, I would then remind her that she has work that needs to be finished, or perhaps she doesn't have enough work to do since she's got time and attention to focus on other things...

it was a missed opportunity to tell her to suck it up--in a professional way, of course.