The Difference Between Evangelical, Fundamentalist and Christian Recon.

[absyntheNsugar]

Real quick, just so we all know the same talking points, thought I'd bring out a quick definition.

Evangelicals simply beleive in the Gospel, and the spreading of the 'good news.' That good news is summed up in the Four Laws: Jesus died for our sins, All man has sinned, all can join God in heaven, we must repent for our sins and Ask Christ to lead us. Beyond that, they can hold that the Bible was inspired by God or is the word of God verbatim. They concentrate on the New Testament, primarily - but do beleive that the New Testament fulfills the law of the Old Testament rather than changing it. There are Gay and Lesbian Evangelicals btw.

Fundamentalists believe all of the above, except that they beleive the Bible is the inerrant, verbatim word of God. They hold that the logos referred to in 1 John 1:1 means that the Bible is not just the word of God, but the 'holy logic' by which all of Creation is held together by. The fundamentalists tend to concentrate on Old Testament law, rather than New Testament forgiveness, however. They also like to concentrate on specific verses, often taking them out of context. As a result, most fundamentalists don't imbibe alchohol, smoke cigarettes, have sex outside of marriage or at least aren't supposed to. There are no Gay and Lesbian Fundamentalists.

Christian Reconstructionism is a totally different beast, however. Although they identify themselves as Fundamentalists, they go outside of the Bible for a lot of their beleifs (and make a lot of stuff up.) They beleive they are on a mission to create a Theocracy in America, making the head of government not the people, but the church. Much like the Taliban, they would have the church to be the lawmakers and judges. Needless to say, they rely heavily on the Old Testament for their laws, and of course don't permit homosexuality (they advocate stoning as punishment, like the Taliban.) Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, although self-identified as Fundamentalists, are actually part of this movement, as is Attorney General John Ashcroft. Strangely enough, two of their biggest targets are the Mormon Church and Catholic Church, which they would have banned if they ever came to power. An example of one of their 'extra-biblical' beliefs is the prohibition of interracial marriage. (King Solomon had a Black Wife btw....)

[DrWeird]

1. I think the confusion comes from "televangelists"

i.e. crooks and pricks like Robertson, Falwell, et. al. are evangelists that happened to get on TV.

[Lars39]

2. The reconstructionists are setting the agendas for a lot of the

fundamentalists, though; the fundamentalists don't always realize this, or if they do, they think it's OK. They're slowly being brainwashed, imo.

[camero]

5. You know what's funny?

I have a friend whose wife was raised by fundies. She is a really good person, I set them up. One day, I mentioned the verse where Jesus was telling people to "go into the closet and pray" meaning that public displays of prayer are only done to bring attention to oneself.

She says, "Gee, I didn't know that."

The fundie preachers leave out an awful lot of the bible. By design, I think.

[absyntheNsugar]

6. Very true...

also the Moonies.

However - there is one group of fundamentalists who is CONSISTENTLY to the left - the Seventh Day Adventists. Anti-war, Vegetarian and non-violent to the core - and also believe in this strict interpretation of the bible.

[Lars39]

9. They are like a closed society, though, they really keep to themselves.

[absyntheNsugar]

12. True, but unlike the Jehova's Witnesses

who are also sqarely to the left (you would mistake them for die-hard ACLU'ers if you ever met them) they do vote.

Jehova's Witnesses believe voting is sinful.

[MooPie]

3. Wait a minute.

The reconstructionists advocate stoning? Hmmmm, so, do they also buy into Exodus 21.7 which appears to condone a man selling his daughter as a slave? And verse 15 where whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death (doesn't specify stoning), or verse 16, just cursing your parents gets you the death penalty? Or are they selective in what passages they use?

[absyntheNsugar]

8. I'm sure they would be selective

Like I said, they make stuff up. Like banning interracial marriages, or the idea that you must separate the races....etc.

[MooPie]

10. So,

Does anyone ever point out this little inconsistency? And if so, how do they repsond?

[La_Serpiente]

4. Thank you very much

that cleared up a lot of things for me.

[mlawson]

7. When I lived in E Tenn, I knew some fundies.

Actually, I worked with them, in a bank. By your definitions, I guess these people were fundies, but they are hard to distinguish from evangelicals. The point is, they were educated and somewhat intelligent, but when the "Pastor" told them to jump, they JUMPED! I never heard one dispute anything the pastor told them.

I remember endless debates there between those of us who were NOT fundies, and those who were. One argument was about 'creation', and cave people, dinosaurs, etc. You could tell that they didn't really believe the earth is 6,000 years old, etc., but they had been TOLD that it was, over and over at church. Finally, they would say, "Well, Pastor _____ said that it's true, so it must be!". Otherwise, these were very nice, polite people. But when the subject of religion came up, it could be Jeckel & Hyde.

BTW, they are TOLD for whom to vote, and they DO it.... Arguing politics with them is like arguing with a stump!

[absyntheNsugar]

11. Probably best to avoid creationism with them...

That will be a losing battle.

Stick with the parable about the rich man who never fed the poor, and went to hell as a result. Remind them that the US is the richest country on earth, and that by cutting welfare benefits we are in essence, doing what the rich man did. I have never met a fundie to the day who could weasel out of that one.

Or the line that 'it is easier for a camel to enter the eye of the needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.' (Trivia note: The eye of the needle was a nickname for the entrance to Jerusalem. Traders on camels couldn't get into town if their camels were packed to the gills - so they had to unload every item get the camel in and then pack it back up.) The line was an inside joke - but it made it's point.

[Jack The Tab]

14. Very cool anecdote..

Never knew that...inside jokes in the bible..

[mlawson]

15. I don't know them anymore.

This was 20 years ago, I live in NC now. No fundies in my neighborhood, but there are a lot of hippies. :-)

You suggestions are sound, but I remember watching their entire faces change when something that bordered on their 'party line' was brought up. They simply would NOT discuss a point that they knew was inconsistent with what they had been told.

Once, their sons were getting ready to go to church camp (Baptist). The assistant pastor (a real asshole) had just told them that 'shorts will NOT be allowed at camp!'. It was July, and these were boys 10-14. The boys were totally pissed off, and were threatening to wear whatever they pleased. Their mothers (with whom I worked) sympathized, but after all, the PASTOR had ordered this, and he 'must know what he is doing'. I asked them what possible harm it could do, for the kids to dress as they pleased. "What is your pastor going to do to them, anyway?? Send them to HELL?"

I had meant it as a joke, but immediately I knew that I had stepped WAY over some line. Yes, I think they actually believed that he could indeed do that. Those poor kids at camp.

[wryter2000]

13. Thanks

The evangelical definition isn't very different from what I was taught as an Episcopal, though. Although, maybe Jesus guided us more than lead us.

[Liberator_Rev]

16. See our scriptural refutation of "Fundamentalism" at . . .

http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/Fundamentalism


See why Christians who are serious about following CHRIST belong in the Liberal ranks of the Democratic Party.

[dsc]

17. There are gay and lesbian fundamentalists

I was a Fundamentalist in my middle school years and I was also gay. The internal contradiction is brutal. I was convinced that if I simply followed the rules set down in the Bible I wouldn't be gay anymore. It took me quite some time to discard that mind set even after I left that church.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

19. Yes, I met a gay fundamentalist once

My stepfather is a musician, piano and organ, and over his 60-year career, he has taught many of the church organists in the Twin Cities.

One day when I was visiting from Portland, one of his former students stopped by. He was one of the most obviously gay men I have ever seen, and...he had found a career writing soundtracks for fundamentalist movies. This guy was going on and on about how he had finally found steady work that was in line with his "Christian commitment" and how he hoped that his work would play a part in "saving" other souls.

The cognitive dissonance involved in such a life must be monumental.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

18. Moses also had an African wife

I forget where the passage is, but at some point Moses marries a Cushite (in other words, an Ethiopian).

[snoochie]

20. How long till we can evolve past theology?

Jumpin Jehosaphat this subject gets me going. People need to finally realize once and for all that your relationship with the divine is a personal thing, not to be interfered with by 'church leaders'. This literally makes me want to tear my hair out. We've been led around by the nose and manipulated for HOW many thousands of years?

In addition to the examples moocow pointed out above, I always like to add my favorite example of OT religion:

Psalms 137:8-9 : "Happy is he who seizes your infants and
dashes them against the rocks."

Nice, eh? Christian 'true believers' will tell you that it's OK because this is just an example of how badly the Jews were tormented by the Babylonians, and they were just calling on God for vengeance. Ah, vengeance... holy evil.

Of course you can find such examples in just about any religion. That's why I think I liked Buddhism so much when I found out about it.