Dean says Iowa win could lock nomination; encounters more C-flag wavers

[pruner]

By NEDRA PICKLER
Associated Press Writer

November 14, 2003, 8:49 PM EST

AMES, IOWA -- Howard Dean says if he wins the Iowa Democratic presidential caucus next January, he should win the Democratic presidential nomination.

"It's going to be hard to stop us if we win Iowa. There is no question about that," Dean told reporters Friday outside his Ames headquarters.

<snip>

As he spoke on college campuses, a group followed him holding signs displaying the Confederate flag, a reminder of Dean's remark that he wanted to be the candidate for Southern men with Confederate flags on their pickup trucks. He apologized for the comment after intense criticism.

At Iowa State University, he sarcastically chided the sign-holders.

"We don't think you should use the Confederate flag," Dean said, laughing. "It's a divisive symbol."

<snip>

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-dean-iowa,0,2613687.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

[SahaleArm]

1. Dean just upped the ante

He's setting himself up for a big fall if he doesn't win Iowa.

[pruner]

2. I don't think he put any additional pressure on himself to win Iowa

he's just expressing what the reality of the situation is.

IF he wins Iowa (and assuming he wins NH) he'll have a helluva lot of momentum going into mini-Tuesday (or whatever it's called).

[SahaleArm]

9. Or maybe good propoganda.

A little political intimidation from the front-runner:evilgrin:

[billbuckhead]

3. "We don't think you should use the Confederate flag," Dean said, laughing.

""We don't think you should use the Confederate flag," Dean said, laughing." He still doesn't get it.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

4. What arrogance.

[Skwmom]

24. He reminds me of Bush more and more each day.

When are Democrats going to understand they can't win this election with the Democratic version of George Bush?

[Patriot_Spear]

25. *Yawn*, more Dean bashing- how novel...

lol "...Democratic version of George Bush...", the desperation of the Dean Basher's is truly getting hysterical.

[Clark Can WIN]

41. I agree

This cheapens his apology, at the very least.


Very ugly.

[genius]

49. Anyone taking any bets on how many African Americans are going

to vote for him? Though I guess he doesn't care. He thinks he's got new friends now.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

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[SahaleArm]

10. Is this the Trippi automated response system? *nm*

*nm*

[blm]

11. billbuckhead has posted here A LONG TIME.

He has a SINCERE belief in gun control and makes his decisions based on his principles.

Your attack is thinskinned and absurd.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Northwind]

39. Hmm...

The right to bear arms is constitutionally guaranteed.

Therefore, "a SINCERE belief in gun control" is the same as trying to do and end run around - or ignore - the constitution, which is exactly what George Bush does.

So what you are saying is that he is just like George Bush.

Well said.

[pruner]

7. there's a difference between laughing sarcastically…

and laughing because you think something's funny.

:D }( :P :9 :+ :7

[bushisanidiot]

8. Oh, He Get's It. He's Doing The Right Thing By Laughing Off The Repuke

harrassers.. kinda like those losers who followed Senator Clinton around on her book tour just to counter protest her fans. heh.. she laughed them off.. some loser dressed up in a devil costume and she acted like the whole thing was silly. poor freepers. so many counter protests.. so few freepers.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!

[Clark Can WIN]

42. You are tuning Nero's violin.....................

Are you so blind?

Don't you understand how many Black Americans and southern Americans were offended by this remark?

Are they repukes and feepers? Do you need them?

Still funny?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

12. We don't think you should use the Confederate flag

take your own advice Dr.

[Pastiche423]

18. What advice?

Dean does not use the c flag.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

19. True.

not anymore.

[Forkboy]

30. Where did he before?

[Clark Can WIN]

43. Ill conceived speeches.

That's where.

[StClone]

5. C Flag wavers at Iowa Sate U

I am assuming they are protesting Dean.

ISU is located in Story County, one of the most Conservative Counties in Iowa and there may be some carry over into the students (Engineering School?).

Confederate Flag wavers... are they being nice to Dean as a reminder or being Freepish?

[KaraokeKarlton]

13. I'd bet anything they are Kerry supporters

If they will dress up in waffle costumes what's to stop them from doing this? What a bunch of idjits. :eyes:

[Egnever]

26. Now now

I wouldnt go that far.

There have been a lot of polls lately sugesting that the majority of college students are republicans. I wouldnt rule out kerry supporters but I doubt it was.

No matter who it was I think its great! Get Dean in the news more let him speak out on race and southern votes more. I am quite confident in his ability to speak on the subject.



Gov. Dean : Having to do it all over again, I wouldn't use the Confederate flag, because it is such a divisive symbol. But the key underlying issues are not dead. They are an essential part of my campaign. We need to bring Southern whites into the Democratic Party or we're not going to win elections in the South anymore. And we're not going to abandon the South. And I'm certainly not going to abandon the South.

Secondly, we need to have a discussion about race in this country. In "The Wall Street Journal" three or four weeks ago, there was a study that showed, if you're white with a criminal conviction, you have a better chance of getting a job interview than if you're African-American with a clean record. As long as that kind of thing goes on in America, we need to openly have a dialogue about race.

[DrFunkenstein]

51. Thank You Egnever

I went to a Dean rally wearing a Confederate bikini, but I would never use a divisive symbol like the actual flag.

But seriously, thanks for sticking up for us.

[eileen_d]

56. Confederate flag bikini?!?!

And you're not posting a picture? Not fair! ;)

[IranianDemocrat]

14. Iowa win = nomination win?

Can someone explain me the reasoning behind Dean saying that?

[pruner]

16. it's all about momentum

he's saying that if he wins Iowa & NH he'll have a lot of it heading into the next round primaries.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

21. Has a Dem ever won IA and NH and not received the nomination?

If so, it's been a long, long time.

[mbali]

44. Yes

Bill Clinton in 1992, Dukakis in 1988.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

48. Clinton didn't win NH in 1992, sorry.

"Comeback Kid" was for placing second in NH after Gennifer Flowers (Tsongas won). And Geppy won Iowa in 1988.

0 fer 2.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

17. Wishful thinking, nothing more.

[TSIAS]

20. Iowa doesn't clinch it for Dean

But it does make it a helluva lot easier. If he does prevail in Iowa, it will probably be a 2 man race between Dean and Clark/Edwards (very likely Wesley Clark).

[Dems Will Win]

23. Not this time. I'm for Dean but there are 800 Super-Delegates and he has

to win 60% of the rest to get to 2159, because he will hardly get any of the Super-Delegates (unless he really romps and is close to Bush in the polls).

There are no more Winner-take-alls in the Dem primaries! They were outlawed! Get 30% of the vote and you only get 30% of the delegates. If the polls don't change much, we could be looking at a brokered convention and an Anybody But DEan movement could easily succeed.

He not only needs to win, he needs to WIN BIG! Or the DLC WILL Stop him with the Super-Delegates in Boston.

Then all Dean's supporters will be mightily pissed off, and most of the extra 3 million youth votes Dean would bring in will disappear and Bush is re-elected. (Assuming the media will make Kerry or Edwards or Clark out to be a congenital liar and fool--Dean would be immune to that, obviously, as he is the new Mr. Teflon).

[Skwmom]

27. Hogwash.

"Then all Dean's supporters will be mightily pissed off and most of the extra 3 million youth votes Dean would bring in will disappear and Bush is re-elected." - Dean sure does love to throw out numbers without providing any support for them. There will be plenty of new voters in the general election thanks to the efforts of the NAACP and other organizations and they won't stay home if Dean isn't the nominee (in fact I believe that many of them will if Dean is the nominee). Dean loves to brag about energizing the Democratic base but he fails to mention the portion of the base he pisses off and alienates with his trash politics.

"Dean would be immune to that, obviously, as he is the new Mr. Teflon." This is ludicrous. The media has been giving him a free pass as even the ABC Note pointed out the other day. Not only will the media turn on him in the general election, they'll laugh at the Democrats for nominating such a loser. In addition, in the tons of ads they'll run against Dean they'll only need to use true facts in many to make Dean go down in flames (my god the irony of this election).

[MercutioATC]

31. Dean's said he'll actively support the nominee if it isn't him.

...and I believe that. He'll ask his supporters to get behind whomever gains the nomination. However, if Dean wins the majority of the primaries and somebody else id nominated at a brokered convention, there's going to be one hell of a lot of pissed off people out there. If the nominee then LOSES, I think there's going to be a major shakeup in the party power structure.

[Skwmom]

34. Once again Dean and his campaign are talking out of both

sides of their mouth. They say they will support the nominee but you keep hearing this kind of crap popping up.

[MercutioATC]

46. It's not "crap". I'm a Dean supporter who's firmly "ABB", but I'll be

pissed as hell if the Democratic party disregards the will of Democrats and engineers a candidate. Talk to the supporters of ANY candidate and I'll bet they agree.

[Egnever]

22. ROFL

"We don't think you should use the Confederate flag," Dean said, laughing. "It's a divisive symbol."


I love this guy!

[Skwmom]

28. It's really sad that you don't see how offensive this

statement is too many people who do not think the CF is a laughing matter.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

29. the irony of Dean saying that is completely lost

:shrug:

[RetroLounge]

32. It's really sad that you don't see what's really sad

eom

[Skwmom]

35. The logic demonstrated by Dean supporters never ceases

to amaze me.

[MercutioATC]

33. What's offensive is that other candidates tried to warp a message of

inclusion for their own political advantage. Dean did not utter ONE word of support for the display of the Confederate flag or of bigotry. He called for people with common needs to stand together for their common good, regardless of their differences. That's an issue that I haven't heard the other candidates address...

[DrFunkenstein]

54. No one else calls for people with common needs to stand for common good?

Actually, I think it was pretty clear that no one called him a racist, and instead said that the truncated version of his stump speech was what offended both Southerners and a formerly enslaved people. But it was nice to see that he handled the situation smoothly and win the audience back to his side at the debate. How that crowd was cheering when Dean finished his explanation. I haven't heard a reaction like that since the "I Have a Dream" speech.

[MercutioATC]

57. I heard a mixed response to his explanation, but I thank you for your

comments. Personally, I think him paraphrasing MLK's statement about the sons of slaves and the sons of slaveholders coming together was a great thing.

I certainly didn't mean to suggest that the other candidates don't see or speak to the need for people to come together. Dean, however, is the first candidate that I have seen reaching out to a recently (past 15 years or so) Republican demographic and encouraging it to vote with us for our individual and collective good.

[Egnever]

37. I think the people that find what he said here

Need to get over it.

I think its freat that instead of getting all defensive and acting like an ass about it he made light of the whole thing with a joke at his own expense.

But keep pounding your agenda if you must.

I think the guys great!

Hes not a racist nor does he support slavery or whater bad conotation you have for the confederate flag. You would have prefered he did what? Had them forcefully escorted out? Shot on sight? what?

The guys right racism needs to be talked about and hes out there trying to get it done. If you chose to put his choice of symbols for it ahead of the message thats certainly your perogative. I'll pass and apreciate it for the outreach to people voting against thier self interests in favor of racist views that it was.

Besides that I think it was damn funny!

[Clark Can WIN]

45. Maybe this is why our party is losin the minority vote............

Do ya think?

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[incapsulated]

38. So, if he *loses* Iowa, it's looking really bad for Dean?

According to this logic, if he loses, he might as well drop out.

Iowa doesn't win you anything but Iowa. He is setting himself up for ridicule if he loses. Dumb.

[ryharrin]

47. That's pretty bad logic.

He is expected to lose. Losing wouldn't be that bad. Winning would be. He's just saying that winning would be great, and pretty hard to overcome assuming he wins NH by as wide of a margin as he might.

[SahaleArm]

50. Unless you're living in a cave...

Dean has been declared the winner by everyone but the voting public. He has the most money, the best campaign, and the best press; He is expected to dominate. His only problem is that he still hasn't pulled away in the polls.

[incapsulated]

52. Saying you have a "lock" on a nomination

because of one state is bad logic and sets you up for criticism if you lose.

In fact, saying you have a lock on the nomination for any reason at this point shows you are really losing your grip on reality. An average "lead" of 17% out of a field of nine is hardly a cakewalk to the nomination. That means 82% of the people are supporting someone else. Does he really expect to get all those votes? Especially with Clark leading in some national polls, one or two percent behind in others? Does he really think, after all the hostility, that Kerry supporters are going to jump on his bandwagon if Kerry drops out? What about the black voters supporting Sharpton, does he have a lock on them after the CF flap, which he continues to make news with his lack of control of his mouth?

As for NH, remember those candidates that stole that state from the heavy favorites right up to the eve of the vote. Remember Hart and McCain. This is why focusing on these early primaries, as if they are predictors of fate, is self-defeating given the history of upsets and the sucesses of those that lost them.

[ryharrin]

53. If he wins Iowa and loses the nomination, what does he care if he

gets criticized? He'll be criticized for much better reasons than that. I don't know about elsewhere, but in NH Dean is Kerry supporters second choice overwhelmingly, so yeah, I'd say that Kerry supporters will jump on his bandwagon. I'd also say that if Kerry keeps going at this pace, his supporters will jump over to dean sooner than later.
Don't forget his half a million supporters and loads of money, and three million new union supporters, etc, etc. How are the other candidates going to catch up? Everywhere that matters he is already either ahead, or a close second. No other candidate goes over so well all over the country, they're all limited to regional appeal. Clark in the south and a little in the west. Gep in Iowa, Edwards in SC, Kerry and Lieberman pretty much nowhere.

[incapsulated]

55. I'm not just talking about NH

Kerry supporters would have to throw the vast majority of their support behind Dean from every state.

"No other candidate goes over so well all over the country, they're all limited to regional appeal."

Clark and Dean are pretty much tied when it comes to national polls, he has no great lead "all over the country".

Clark is leading in SC, Edwards has no lock on that State, either.

edit: Clark is also polling very well with both black and latino voters. This is going to bode very well for him once we move out of Iowa and NH.

[Clark Can WIN]

40. Pruner, help me understand this..........

because I used to like Dean. A great deal as a matter of fact. But this is a great example of why I came to not like him anymore.

I find this comment totally abraisive.

He's laughing? It IS a devisive symbol. Does he not get that? Or does he just find in hillarious?

Ugh.