Death penalty - your thoughts?

[HEyHEY]

I was suprised to see some DUers supporting it on a thread last night. I'll tell you why I don't.

I don't like the idea of the government deciding who lives or dies. That is an extremely huge responsibility...and everyone always says the government is incompetent ;-). But even the most foul person alive I don't think should be put to death. Not because I feel sorry for them, but because it seems so barbaric that a mass of people could order the death of one person. As well, I think that life in prison is a far worse punishment.

What are your thoughts?....Don't worry I will not flame you...I am intending to have a decent discussion.

[Fixated]

1. .....

I just don't see the point of it. I don't see the justice system as having a goal of retribution, but one of the protection of society.

[HEyHEY]

2. Yes I agree with that as well

good point.

[veganwitch]

3. state sanctioned...

...hate crime
...revenge
...murder
...torture

all of the above

[mvd]

4. Against it in all cases, however..

I don't exactly get upset when murderers who have committed heinous crimes are executed. Other issues are more important to me, like health care.

[HEyHEY]

6. What really freaks me out is when

Some 19-year-old who botched an armed robbery and killed someone is executed.

[mvd]

11. Yep

Our system is a disaster.. the only fair way IMO is to have just life in prison without parole.

[HEyHEY]

13. even then in the above case

I think that parole should be possible. Some kids make mistakes. Lots of times it is a result of a hard life. After 20 years the kid will probably have seen his errors, change his ways. And despite the killing of another....should have a second chance. But I mean in the case I talked about above. Not in all cases.

[mvd]

15. I didn't mean no parole in all cases

Some murderers wouldn't be a danger to anyone else.

[rucky]

71. Mixed Messages from the Government

1) Killing is bad, unless it's state-sponsored killing.

2) Prison is designed to rehabiliate & punish criminals, but we have given up on rehabilitation.

Under no circumstances am I for state-sponsored killing.

[Wwagsthedog]

5. Prosecutorial win at all costs mentality

Too many "mistakes" have been made in our courtrooms to ever make death a humane judicial option. Didn't the former IL Gov make that point when he suspended the death penalty?

[mitchtv]

7. I would prefer there be no Death penalties

I am ,however, ambivalent about it. Sorry, I just can't fit it in with the other priorities. In other words it is not a deal breaker.

[vi5]

8. Don't like it but only because of human error...

I am and will always be against it because human error is too plentiful and common. So there will never be a 100% perfect system. Plus, justice in general is applied arbitrarily across this country.

That being said none of my anti-Death penalty stance is because of the sacredness of human life. There are plenty of people who probably really do deserve to die. I just don't trust my fellow humans to decide who it is.

[Grins]

37. Not just human error..

It’s not just human error, it’s also political error. I don’t recall where it was said (may have been Ill. Gov. Ryan), but it is a decision that should be made devoid of politics, but too often it is not. The “system” allows for mercy via a stay for Governors, a Courts, or a President. But, faced with allowing an execution or facing the voters with a “soft on crime” charge, the penalty is unevenly applied and should be unconstitutional.

Bush loves death (See Plain Adder’s column last week on this site) and would never pardon anyone. Sad to say, Clinton did the same thing just before he became President. When the time for decision came the press covered him like a hawk, want to see what he would do, and he didn’t do well.

” In 1992 when Clinton was running for president, he made a point of leaving the campaign trail to go back to Arkansas for an execution, sending a strong message to the American people that he was in full support of the death penalty. The victim was a mentally retarded man named Ricky Ray Rector, who told the guards taking him from his cell to the execution chamber that he was going to leave his dessert on the side of his bunk. "I’m going to eat it after my execution," he said.”
<http://www.iacenter.org/warcrime/rubac.htm>

”… when one of those murdered again a few months after his release, Clinton suffered a humiliating defeat for re-election to a Republican who accused him of being soft on crime. When Clinton ran again, he publicly apologized for freeing the convicts and vowed not to do so again if re-elected. Since 1983 he has granted only seven requests.”
<http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2000/07/nguyen-a-07-14.html>

Dukakis also got nailed on it. Badly.

It should be banned because it doesn’t belong in the political arena. Make it all life imprisonment, and the issue is off the table.

It just bugged the heck out of me when Tim McVeigh asked his sentence be changed from life to death. I agree with him that I would rather die than spend 60 years in prison. I wouldn’t want to spend 5 minutes in prison. So here we had a killer suffering in his own well earned private hell, and Bush and Ashcroft’s blood lust let him out of it. Stupid. He could have been their poster boy for years.

More stupidity was the failure of the FBI that turned over more materials to defense attorney’s – AFTER – McVeigh was executed. Human frailty (not to mention incompetence).

As for the victims and their families, they deserve Justice, not blood revenge.

[flama]

62. Yes, I think that was Governor Ryan of Illinois

My only regret for leaving that fair state is that I missed the opportunity to vote for him.

[camero]

9. It's against the 14th Amendment

Since it is not applied equally. The stupid SC should have seen that, but they ignored it.

[HEyHEY]

10. I'm having trouble understanding why

could you explain please?

[camero]

17. The 14th is

equal protection under the law and since one who murders can get life in prison and another gets the death penalty, there is unequal treatment. Those who have money for good attorneys usually get life w/out parole.

[HEyHEY]

21. ah okay

thanks for explaining.

[forgethell]

39. Question here,

as long as imperfect human beings exist, how can anything be applied equally?

[youngred]

75. and the 8th

cruel and unusual punishment

[Media_Lies_Daily]

12. I have about 70 reasons why I don't support the death penalty...

...that's the approximate number of people on death row in various states that have been proved innocent by DNA testing.

When the U.S. legal system can prove that they have the right people on Death Row, I might consider supporting the death penalty under the right circumstances.

[Grins]

40. And in Pennsylvania...

In Pennsylvania they have exonerated more people than they have executed.

" "You've exonerated more than you've executed. Why would you do that?" (Former Ill. Gov. Ryan)
<http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/10/12/death.penalty.ap/>

[sweetheart]

14. Why i'm against it.

I don't trust the justice system. It is wrong a good percentage of the time, and to kill someone "accidentally" is sooooo wrong, that the practice should not be allowed.

I don't have a problem with the idea of a death penalty for moral reasons. My religion believes that those souls will merely reincarnate in another body... and i have past life memories of being executed in tibet for being a buddhist, so no surpises that i'd believe that, eh.

Another critique which i believe is quite relevant, is that social policy, guns proliferation and republican-poverty creation programmes like the drugs war are largely responsible for the environment of violence and murder in inner cities. Its not to say that i believe you can "blame society" for your crimes, but that the society must bear some responsibility... and simply executing those who it has lead to this end is irresponsible on behalf of the society.

I don't believe that someone who kills another is a worse individual or that they go to hell... so much depends on the individual, and with healthy treatment (as mental and social illness are roots to most of such crimes) those folks can come to contribute to society yet in their later years. Maybe a murderer becomes born again and becomes a great changer of hearts 10 years after his state-execution... but we'll never know... unfortunately.

I have even more issues with state sponsored executions, like where the president sanctions a murder.. its murder. Sharon is a murderer and should be imprisoned for it... and so should bush. Political office is no excuse.

[HEyHEY]

16. What I'd like to see

If an person is proven innocent after they are executed. That makes what the state did murder. So.....the judge, who sentenced him, the prosecutor who pushed for death, all charged with homicide. That'll make em think twice about who they choose to execute.

[TexasMexican]

30. interesting

It would be sad, but it would also be interesting to watch people point fingers.

Wouldnt it also be the juries fault? I wonder if they could be held liable.

Just the same I hope it doesnt happen.

[sweetheart]

41. sounds fair to me

If a police person kills someone wrongly, they are guilty of murder... same should be the case for the prosecutor... i donna know about the judge... does the judge push the death penalty?

Also, i am in favour of putting the murder supply chain in the dock. The murder weapon's suppliers, manufactuers should be held responsible... that would put the handgun manufacturers (as in truth these weapons are for nothing else but killing humans) in the responsibility chain also.

An individual without the support of arms suppliers and other parties is gonna have to beat someone to death with their bare hands... a rather difficult thing to do. If a gun helped, then the gun maker and seller are criminals also... especially if they did not vet properly... just like a bartender that lets an obviously drunk patron drive home.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

52. state premediated murder,,every inmate executed death certificate list

as cause of death "homicide"

[wryter2000]

18. I won't even consider it

Unless people can prove to me that innocent people don't get executed, I won't even consider the death penalty. It's wrong.

[skeptic9]

19. Two words: Robert Durst. He's the "eccentric" multi-millionaire recently ...

... acquitted of murder despite confessing he'd shot the victim and cut up his body. (NY Post headline: WHERE'S THE HEAD?)

Because of the venality of our "justice" system, those who can afford to hire "dream-team" lawyers and those whose victims are minorities tend to get lenient treatment. On the other hand, those accused who are poor and must rely on a de-funded public defender system tend to get lethal injections. Recall Barry Scheck's estimate that indisputable exculpatory DNA evidence has been found for 25 percent of death row cases investigated with DNA techniques.

Our legal system cannot be trusted to administer irreversible punishment even-handedly.

[TexasMexican]

29. Prosecution botched it.

Durst was acquited of premeditated murder.

The Jury didnt think that Durst had planned beforehand to kill the guy.

They might have believed that he killed him on the spur of the moment or something, but that wasnt what he was on trial for.

The prosecutor could have also tried to charge him with manslaughter, which he probably would have been convicted of, but apparently they were too arrogant and thought they didnt need to.

[prolesunited]

32. Doesn't matter who botched it

If you have money, time and time again it has been shown that you can buy better justice.

I'm against the death penalty in all cases.

[quaker bill]

20. End it, ban it

Government sanctioned murder is still murder. It makes the unambiguous moral statement that killing people is a viable and appropriate way to solve certain problems. I think we should not provide this type of "leadership by example".

[TexasMexican]

22. I support the death penalty.

I'm not sure how it is in other states, but I'm pretty sure in Texas it isnt the government that decides who lives or dies, its up to the Jury in the sentancing phase.

While I'm sure this too could have its own problems, I dont think its that big of a deal considering that one would only have to convince 1 person on the jury that they didnt deserve to die.

I dont think the death penalty should be used on every person who commits a murder or killing because some of them might be redeemable. However I think for people who commit multiple murders, are repeat murders, have a long violent history and murder, or even people who commit multiple or repeated violent sexual crimes they should be put to death.

I think every case is unique so there should be no mandatory sentancing or everything, IMO the best people to decide what the punishment should be are the jurors. That is the reason we are supposed to have a jury system so that each case is treated individually.

[HEyHEY]

24. Okay fair enough

I don't agree though... It seems too erie that there have been innocents put to death in the past.

Thanks for you arguement

[quaker bill]

70. I simply disagree

I actually don't care who decides. Every case is the State of **** vs the Defendant. If you believe that murder is wrong then killing people is not a viable way to solve problems, regardless of who decides.

I get your argument, and you are correct there are certainly examples out there where the concept of letting them continue to live, is hard to defend.

My thoughts are more related to the character of our society. When you consider these examples, do you actually believe that any one of them was at all detered by the existence of the death penalty?

I argue that socially sanctioned murder has a higher moral cost to our society than any benefit derived from it would justify.

[Melsky]

23. Against it

For many of the reasons above. Especially the amount of innocent people to be found on death row, revealed by dna evidence.

[roguevalley]

25. Because its state sanctioned doesn't not make it murder.

I was on a jury over an assault and battery and when we
first polled our opinions, two of the dorks said that not
only isn't it a crime to beat up a police man, they get
paid for it.

I don't want this kind of missing link deciding someone's
death. Death penalties are assigned in passion and revenge
and that's just the jury.

God help us all.

[Dr Fate]

26. What's in it for ME???

I'm a very selfish voter- on every issue I ask the question "what's in it for ME?"

I've researched it, and to date I cant find one single thing way that the Death Penalty benifits me, or society.

People often wonder where today's troubled kids get the idea that problems can be solved with more violence- they get a lot of it from the government...

When someone can prove to me that the DP is the best way to solve the crime problem, while still keeping a free society, then I will consider it...

I dont under stand why some Americans want to emulate China or Saddam by suppporting the death penalty...

[retyred]

27. Eye for an eye

and then some....some folks need to go and "yes" I could/would pull the switch if given the chance.



Retyred In Fla
So I Read This Book

[LeftofU]

43. .........makes the whole world blind.

[Dr Fate]

59. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone (pull the switch)"

That is what Jesus said to the executioners who were giving the "death penalty" to a prostitue by stoning her to death...

And then he forgave that murderer who was on the cross next to him while they BOTH were being killed under Rome's Death Penalty...

Not exactly 2 ringing Death Penalty endorsements from JC, eh?...

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone (pull the switch)"

Still up for pulling the switch, despite Christ's command, or are you w/o sin?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. The Death Penalty And Abortion

are two of the toughest issues as a liberterian and a born again Christian I have to deal with...

The "Catholic" position that all human life is precious and therefore one most oppose the death penalty and abortion is tempting.... However as a liberterian I have a problem with telling a woman what to do with her body and as the friend of a murder victim I have a hard time with abolishing the death penalty.... A good friend of mine, Carol Ann Maher, was killed by a serial killer, Gerald Stano.... He gave her a ride and asked her for sex.... She laughed at him and he put a knife in her back... She was, I believe twenty years old....

My position... Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare with an emphasis on abstinence for teenagers, monogamy for married folks, and safe sex for everybody else...


The death penalty.... I am nominally opposed to the death penalty but I wouldn't attend a candle light vigil for David Westerfield or John Wayne Gacy....

[Terwilliger]

31. I support a minimal death penalty

reserved only for those who are clearly, unequivocally guilty of 1st-degree murder, and those who kill many people for whatever reason

[Feanorcurufinwe]

33. This is an issue that

makes me glad I'm not REALLY in a position where I have to take a stand.

If I had to, I would stand against, because inevitably, innocent blood will be shed. And I don't think that's what the government should be doing.

Emotionally I believe that there are people who should be just done away with. Like when you are in a movie and the villian finally gets it. But I would never want to be in the position of making that decision. Unfortunately in real life the true villians are not always so obvious. And even if we don't share in the decision, we share in the responsibility.

[Silverhair]

34. Will a Life sentence really mean LIFE?

There are numberous examples of death sentences that were commuted to life, then dropped to a set term, then paroled, and the now free convict killed again. Remember: Willie Horton was a lifer who was let our on furlough! I consider that to have been really dumb. What incentive does a lifer have to return to prison? What are they going to do to him for escaping - give him life again?

I will agree to life instead of a death penalty only if the death penalty opponents agree for life to really, truly, mean stay-in-jail-until-you-die, even if you live to 130, you are still in jail type of life sentence. No time off or commutted sentence for any reason.

I am reminded of one of the Nazi WWII leaders (Hess?) that was given life. As the decades passed and he became a very old man, there arose a movement to let him go. Only the Russians stood firm. He stayed in jail until he died (Suicide?), as he should have.

So that's the problem I have with the so many of the anti death penalty crowd. They are always wanting still more mercy to be extended to the most vile undeserving individuals, even when that means releasing dangerous individuals into society.

[LizW]

35. I am against it

It is inhumane. It diminishes us as human beings to kill for revenge.

[Clark Can WIN]

36. I'm against it......... same reason as you

Don't think a Government should have the power of life and death.

On Edit: It's not a dealbreaker for me though. I think it'll be while before our society progresses enough to do away with the death penalty. But I do believe it will happen eventually.

[Darranar]

38. I'm against it...

It is barbaric, and too many innocents are sentenced to it.

[Zorra]

42. Execution means

never having to say you're sorry.

What if new evidence becomes available that proves someone's innocence after they have been executed?

[kyrasdad]

44. my little pov

Are there people who deserve to die, yes. Is it another humans place to dole out that punishment, no. Murdering a murderer is still murder.

Prison is supposed to be about punishment. What worse punishment can you give than knowing you'll be caged for the rest of your life? Prison is not ClubMed, no matter what conservatives will try to convince you of.

Also the possibility of someone not being guilty of being executed. I laugh when politicians say that no one has ever been wrongly executed. How would they know? How many investigations go on after someone is executed? I bet if you were to run DNA samples from 40 or 50 years ago, we would find quite a few errors, particurly in the minority community.

[sweetheart]

47. incarceration is about rehabilitation

not punishment. it is supposed to prepare the person for re-introduction to society as that is what happens in the vast majority of cases. Rehabiltation takes time, and that is what the custodial sentence is for. It is not about punishment except in some republican childish delusion.

Punishment does not work, or we would not have reoffence. Only rehabilitation works. Until this fundamental semantic difference is overcome in the justice system, it will continue to fail to deliver results... except the result of costing a bloody fortune to keep millions behind bars.

[kyrasdad]

56. New York gave up that idea years ago...

it's about punishment in the Empire State.

[rbnyc]

45. I agree with you.

Besides the fact that the system doesn't work, that innocent people are put to death, that blacks who kill whites get the death penalty while whites who kill blacks go home, that it costs more than a life term, and that it does not deter crime, it's just plain wrong. I'm also surprised by how many democrats support the death penalty.

[nuxvomica]

46. I'm against it for numerous reasons

It really is an aberration of justice so there are all kinds of reasons why it is wrong.
First of all, it's "cruel and unusual". If you don't think it's the former then I'm sure I can dig up cases where even lethal injection has been torturous. It's the latter because it's the only sentence that's irreversible.
Then there's the sanctioned disregard for human life that others have mentioned. This ultimately makes capital punishment a threat to public safety.
Fundamentally, it is wrong. One's moral responsibility in any situation increases with one's control of that situation. To purposely kill someone over which you have control and therefore perceive no immediate threat is the purest form of evil. It's like removing a country's weaponry and then invading it with a full military force.
There are other arguments but for me these are the main ones.

[Selwynn]

48. It's wrong, and I'm not interested in discussing it...

..with those who disagree. Hey, at least I'm honest. :)

[MrSlayer]

49. Death Penalty

I support the Death Penalty as long as there are no doubts about the case. I have no problem with wiping out any murderers, rapists or child molestors. In fact I'd like to pull the switch on those bastards myself. I think the Death Penalty is in many cases far less than what the people deserve. I think the families of the victims should get to choose the penalty for the culprits instead of giving them an easy, painless way out like lethal injection. Call me barbaric if you want, all I know is if someone killed any of my family members or friends I'd want to kill that person myself in the most prolonged, painfilled fashion possible.

[newyawker99]

50. NO DEATH PENALTY....NO EXCEPTIONS!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

51. we must stop the lie that has been built into our society -

that killing is an acceptable way to deal with people judged to be aggressors. What an insane logic we subscribe to - that the state should kill to show others that killing is wrong.

There is no way we can cover up the truth that putting another human being to death in the cold-blooded, planned, beaureacratic way that executions are carried out is nothing less than barbaric and horrifying.

What good can come of heaping more volience upon the voilence already done?

[TexasMexican]

55. I dont think its a lie

Killing is an acceptable way to deal with some aggressors.

If it was not then people would not have the right to self defense.

Killing is not necessarily wrong, murder is wrong though. I dont consider the death penalty murder, though it is a killing.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

58. self defense is a horse of another color.. .....

but premediated murder by the state is just that!

two wrongs will NEVER make a right!

>Killing is not necessarily wrong, murder is wrong though. I dont consider the death penalty murder, though it is a killing.<

say what? :crazy:

if it is not murder why then does the state list as the cause of death "homicide" on executed inmates death certificates???

[TexasMexican]

60. semantics.

I guess its semantics.

If someone is killed in self defense I believe thier death certificates also list the cause of death as homicide.

Murder is an unlawful killing. That doesnt mean that all killings are unlawful though.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

63. all murders/killing is inmoral/wrong whether perpetrated by an individual

or the state.

[sandnsea]

53. Dean likes it, DU likes it

That about sums it up. Same on guns, confederate flag, environment, whatever. Notice everybody got in a tizz about the Miller lynching remark which was worse than the flag remark, but along the same lines. Either people are changing their views to support Dean or they really weren't as liberal as they pretended.

[spanone]

54. You either kill people or you don't. I believe you don't.

If one innocent person is killed by the state the whole system is bogus. The state then becomes the murderer.

[Don Claybrook]

57. The Death Penalty is Wrong in All Cases

Yes, I'll sometimes hear about a particularly heinous crime and wish I could kill the perpetrator myself, but this doesn't tend to bend reality one inch. Barbarism shouldn't be answered with barbarism. As much as the Administration is protesting to the contrary, we're supposed to be a nation of laws.

[moondust]

61. Like the individuals that embody it,

the State has no right to kill people.

Incidentally, I think a lot of right-to-lifers also hypocritically support the death penalty.

[bluestateguy]

64. Execute white collar criminals

Many liberals oppose the death penalty simply out of ideological principle, and there's not much we can do about that. But others on the Left oppose the death penalty because it is applied in such a racially and class biased way, and that non-whites and working class people do not recieve due process. I feel that if white male corporate CEO's who committed crimes (Lay, Skilling, Ebbers, etc.)were just as subject to the death penalty as an indigent black male, many on the Left would change their tune on executions.

[youngred]

77. Not I

though the actions of corporate CEOS actions can be much more destructive than a murderer I still think it is wrong

[Festivito]

65. Our justice system is not worthy of it, yet.

There would have to be extraordinary chain of evidence against such a person. No conflicts of interest nor conflicts of suspicion.

Prior incarceration should be a must. And, with that, there would have to be provision for proving people innocent.

Even with that, I'd prefer only to consider the death penalty for murderers already in prison who escape. And, this is mostly for the pupose of bartering in a standoff.

[baldguy]

66. It makes ME a killer.

In this country, the gov't represents the people - and I'm the people.

[flama]

67. Who deserves to die?

John Wayne Gacey, Richard Speck, Jeffery Dahmer? My brother? Your brother?

We'll all die in due time. Meanwhile, we must all live with the consequences of our lives.

Too many people, I fear, have been executed for crimes they did not commit. Human error, as it is, will keep sending people to death row when they don't belong there.

Fasten your seat belts. I'm going to say some Biblical stuff. (If you know me, you'll understand.) An eye for an eye is all well and good as long as you remember the Lord sayeth, "Vengence is mine." And, yes, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, pull the lever, push the button, dump the pellet. If that be the case, no execution would ever happen.

A long time ago I read that life in prison cost taxpayers much less than an execution. I'd give you a link but that was before PCs or the Internet. I must believe the same holds true today. If my mind had not been made up to oppose the death penalty before then, reading that article would have done it.

[Silverhair]

73. Life is cheaper than an execution. However...

that is because of the way in which executions are handled. The process takes about 15 years. In the 1930's some guy took a shot at FDR but hit and killed the governor of NY. In 30 days he was tried, convicted, and executed. I submit that less money was spent on him than if he had been given life.

Don't misunderstand me. In my above post I have stated that I would have no problem with doing away with the death penalty. I just wanted you to be aware of the counter argument.

[RobinA]

68. Against It

in all cases. The government should not be killing people. Period. If someone is big and bad, lock'em up and throw away the key.

[dofus]

69. Oddly enough

almost every other first world country gets along without a death penalty. Japan is the only exception.

Countries that do have the death penalty? Such bastions of liberty and justice as Saudi Arabia, China, Iraq, Iran. Hmmmm. Does anyone else see a pattern here?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

72. Against It bec. it is applied in a racially-biased way

and class-biased also. Robert Durst-who probably was guilty of killing his wife as well as the guy he chopped up-had the best legal defense. Lee Malvo-the 17-year old black kid indicted in the DC Sniper case, is being tried in a county that has the death penalty for people his age. He does not have expensive legal counsel.

Until the justice system is class- and color-blind, there shouldn't be a dealth penalty.

[youngred]

74. I don't support it in any case

ever.

A) The state has no right to decide who lives and dies (which also is the reason for my opposition to the draft).
B) It is racist in its implementation
C) There are errors in any system and I cannot stand the idea of putting an innocent person to death
D) It is ineffective as a deterrent. Florida, Texas and Illinois the states with the highest execution rates also have the highest murder and violent crime rates (and 2 of them were run by Bush's go figure)
E) It is Unconsitutional, how much more cruel can you get than death (I know legal precedent is against me on this, but I don't care)

[ElsewheresDaughter]

76. since 1992 ...111 death row inmates found innocent thru DNA testing

and the innocence project

[funkyflathead]

78. I support the death penalty except for the mentally retarted

We should be allowed to exact the same amount of punishment on killers as they exacted on their victims.

Those two sniper guys in MD/VA/DC on trial right now should DIE!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

79. so in accordance to your arguement in support "eye for an eye" funkyfalt

logic....you would than also support...the rape of rapists...molestating the children of child molesters...and burning down the homes of arsonists?...:crazy:

[funkyflathead]

80. So what?

Payback is a bitch.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

81. wow .........take a walk on the darkside

[HEyHEY]

82. Burning down arsonist's houses

They might actaully enjoy that you know

[youngred]

83. Why kill people to show killing people is wrong

why the need for silly vengence?

[funkyflathead]

84. It's not vengeance it's JUSTICE n/t

[ElsewheresDaughter]

85. NOT

[funkyflathead]

86. we will just have to disagree

You and I are on opposite sides of the issue. Fair enough.

[Cheswick2.0]

87. I am against it for any reason even if we are 100% sure of guilt

It is monstrous and grotesque... but so is our whole justice system. Imagine trying a 13 year old child as an adult. Imagine putting to death someone who was 16 or 17 when they commited their crime.
It seems to me that americans are getting meaner and dumber as a result of this ugly rightwing backlash we are in the middle of. Why are we devolving (I have no idea if that is a real word) instead of evolving?

[Monte Carlo]

88. In the end, I just don't think it accomplishes anything.

That is, unless that person is an immediate threat to another.

Take Charlie Manson. He killed a lot of people, and he didn't get the death penalty. Was it really necessary to have killed him, too? He's a science experiment these days; we use him as a standard for being crazy. Make some good out of the worst of the worst, whether they like it or not.