John Kerry made history yesterday

[pruner]

following his decision to opt-out of public financing, he became the first Democratic party candidate to self-finance a presidential campaign since the beginning of the public financing system.

[HFishbine]

1. "Where's the principle?"

Oh, never mind.

[Eric J in MN]

3. how much of his own money will he spend during the Primiaries? (nt)

nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Sorry to break this to you

but he is following on Dean's footsteps

[pruner]

4. sorry to break it you… but no, he's not

Dean's campaign is being financed by his supporters… Kerry is taking out a loan to finance his.

hardly the same thing.

[Eric J in MN]

5. Dean is financed by supporters, not himself (nt)

nt

[TLM]

6. No surprise here....

other than the fact he waited this long.


Wonder if the Kerry folks who were bashing Dean for opting out will now bash Kerry as well... doubt it. They'll probably just blame Dean for forcing poor kerry to have to do this.

[UTUSN]

7. t'other Way Around

The DEAN crew knew KERRY would do this, so stole the thunder. But it helped both campaigns----DEAN going first taking the heat off KERRY, but DEAN going first made it look like "leading".

[Eloriel]

16. That's utter nonsense

Why would Dean steal the thunder on something that he's MOSTLY been criticized for? And that in fact Kerry bashed him for, and then turned around and did himself?

Ridiculous.

Further, the Dean campaign was discussing the possibility of this months ago -- at a time when I thought they were friggin' nuts to do so (but then, I didn't understand a lot of things I understand both about the campaign and the CFR rules at the time).

Your post illustrates absolutely that for Deanophobes, there's no depths of ridiculousness that people won't descend to in order to TRY to find something ugly to say about Dean.

Eloriel

[UTUSN]

23. My Post Had Seeds of Criticism for Both Sides

for undermining campaign finance reform. That said, ANYthing mildly critical of DEAN is immediate lambasted as "hatred for DEAN" (in other posts, not quoting yours here), and now (yours) "Deanophobes." Most of my posts attempt to reach out. Nothing like Dem-love.

[Bombtrack]

19. Kerry never warned that he'd slam someone who did opt out

Dean did.

[DrFunkenstein]

34. But...But...That Would Mean He Was Hypocritical

Which is theoretically impossible, since Dean can do no wrong. At least he didn't try some BS populist cover for his flip flop.

[Julien Sorel]

8. Steve Forbes did it in 1998.

JF Kennedy also tapped the family fortune in his runs. Of course, Forbes was a couple of years ago, so I suppose it doesn't count any more. :eyes:

You simply cannot beat the Deanites for inaccuracy and fabrication -- the truth is simply an inconvenience to be avoided, like a bad neighborhood.

[pruner]

10. you're right…

I made an error and have corrected my original post.

no reason to get snarky.

[Julien Sorel]

12. These 'errors' seem to happen with you a lot.

I give you credit for admitting you were wrong, at least -- your fellow Kool-aid swillers lack even that much integrity.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Julien Sorel]

15. I remember *at least* one other time

where you had to edit a thread starting post because it was bullshit and you got called on it. And no, I'm not going to search through the huge number of mainly garbage thread starters you make to find it or them. I also find it hard to believe you yourself can't remember it happening, as it's the sort of thing I would make it a point to remember if it happened to me. I suppose the words of George Santayana apply here, however.

[dsc]

46. Gee it's the second coming of General Sheldon

or maybe Joseph McCarthy. You all but accused that poster of lying. Get off your butt and prove it.

[KittyWampus]

20. Pruner, That "Shut The Fuck Up" Emoticon Is Unbelievably Rude

I've seen it twice and even though I'm not emotionally involved in either thread... I find it repulsive.

It eludes my sense of humor. :shrug:

[sandnsea]

9. He would have been called stupid

If he hadn't. Can't go against Bush without money, that's why Dean did it right? It doesn't matter what Kerry would have done, he'd have been beaten over the head for it.

I, for one, appreciate Kerry putting his money where his mouth is. Beats the hell out of asking people who can't afford food, medicine or electricity to go borrow $100 to send to Howard Dean when he won't put his own money up.

[pruner]

11. LOL

[ima_sinnic]

14. tsk tsk tsk

bitter much?
nobody "asked" anyone "who can't afford food, medicine or electricity to go borrow $100 to send to Howard Dean"--very small-minded distortion.
Kerry has to put his own money up because if all his supporters each sent in $100 it wouldn't amount to more than about $37,000.

[sandnsea]

18. Well who has to borrow $100???

People who are broke, that's who.

And you can believe what you want, I don't trust Dean's money at all. I don't think it's intentionally misrepresented or that the Dean campaign even knows they're being manipulated, but the money just doesn't make sense. Especially that $5 million in a week. I hate to think we're being played only to have the money dry up if he wins the nomination.

[Eloriel]

17. Oh, for pete's sake. Get real.

1. There are millions and millions and millions of people in the U.S. who are NOT "unable to afford food, medicine or electriciy," and those are the people Dean's appealing to. And you know it.

2. Dean is worth about $4 or $5 million. wouldn't go very far, would it? Besides, he's in a position that he doesn't have to self-finance. People believe in him enough to want to contribute.

Why can't Kerry raise money from middle class contributors so he doesn't have to borrow or spend his own money? Hmmm?

Eloriel

[pruner]

22. it's too bad Kerry can't use the Heinz money…

maybe then he could ketchup!

[sandnsea]

25. corny, but funny

hehe

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

44. LOL Good one!

:bounce:

[Padraig18]

21. Unless you know for a fact that Dean asked people to do that,...

... I demand you retract that ridiculous, over-the-top statement!

Proof? Links? Citations?

[sandnsea]

24. To borrow money?

He said it, it was in a newsclip. I will not retract it. If you want to just believe I'm a liar, that's your choice.

[pruner]

26. what he said is…

that he believes 2 million people would be willing to borrow $100 to send Bush back to Crawford.

he didn't ask them to.

[Renew Deal]

28. Check the Dean blog.

If you read there during the fundraisers, people say ththat they have done all kinds of things to send him cash. "Kids aren't getting as many toys this Christmas" is one I remember.

[pruner]

31. are you saying Dean is responsible for the decisions his supporters make?

if someone would rather give their kids the chance to grow up in a world free of Bush than a Tickle Me Elmo doll, that's their choice to make.

[DrFunkenstein]

35. He Phrased The Question Pretty Openly

If you want me to lose, vote to keep in public financing. If you want me to win, vote me out. You are now free to decide.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

39. And Kerry huddled with himself and said...

"If I want me to win I've got to get my checkbook and loan papers out. If I want to lose I'll accept matching funds. I am now free to decide."


Dean put the question to 450,000+ people. Kerry put the question to one person (2 if you count Teresa). Which one of these scenarios rings true of Democracy? Which one rings true of Monarchy?

[sandnsea]

30. Right, that's not asking

The words just flew out of his mouth for no particular reason.

[Renew Deal]

27. He could have not taken financing for the general election.

He could have taken it here. I mean how much money is he going to blow on the nomination?

[pruner]

29. there's a separate opt-in for the general election

after the convention the nominee gets to decide… but it's not really much of a decision.

candidates who accept matching funds for the general election can spend $74 million.

Bush will be accepting matching funds for the GE.

[billbuckhead]

32. He'd rather spend his own money than con you & let down the troops

Kerry is much more desirable than the ConFlag candidate.

[_]

40. Week late and a dollar short.

No one cares anymore... very few cared then. Just ask Ahnuld how bad press and spin affected his campaign. Deans comment was taken waaaayyy out of context. The opposing team(s) intercepted the ball and fumbled before the one yard line.

[salin]

49. hold on... though... because whoever gets the nomination

is going to HAVE to do exactly that kind of fundraising to mount a credible campaign against the bush money. To make it an "icky" point now, because of the candidate - is counterproductive - as any democratic candidate, Kerry included, in the end will do this.

Further more it is IMPORTANT that they do this. Why? Because donations up commitment - not just commitment to vote - but commitment to take action - as in local door to door; local phone banks; local discussion groups to reach a more broad audience. Frankly, I do not believe that the old reliance on tv media will win this election for us - we will continue to be outgunned financially (and tv is the MOST expensive kind of media). Sure we will have some - but with rightwing talkfest radio/tv echoing each other ad nauseum - what they did to Gore will look like a pattycake party. WE will have to be the ones countering rightwing spin. WE will have to talk to people and convince long-time nonvoters to vote. WE will have to mount an incredible level grassroots campaigning. The donations - will up the level of commitment to do this.

many of us have volunteered for previous presidential campaigns. We need to do more than we have in the past, get others to do the same - and start reaching voters one on one.

This isn't going to happen with hands-off campaigning.

My point is that to be overly critical of this approach, becuase right now it is tied to a particular candidate, is cutting off thy nose. Because be it Kerry, Clark, Dean, Gephardt, Edwards, Kucinich, Sharpton, Braun - or heaven forbid Lieberman - the candidate WILL need to take this same approach.

[TexasMexican]

33. I feel sorry for Kerry.

Especially if its true he took out a loan to finance his campaign.

That will be alot of money wasted.

People shouldnt throw away money like that, its not right.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

37. Well, we look at the Dean money and say the same thing

People should not throw away money like that. :hi:

[molly]

43. The Dean campaign is not about the MAN and his PRINCIPLES

or about ISSUES or SAVING this country - it's about motivating the base and raising money. My hope is that we vote to IMPROVE this country - not put a "fundraiser" in the WH.

[DrFunkenstein]

36. Kerry Already Made History By Never Accepting A Penny Of PAC Money

In his four Senate races. I'd say that's pretty impressive, but you'd never hear it from all these people bitching about the DLC and their corporate lobbyists.

No, that would take, you know, integrity and stuff. Good to see people are open minded.

[_]

38. Might be relevant if he had earned his wealth....

rather than marrying into it.

[mitchum]

41. I heard Limbaugh say the same thing earlier this year...

honest, I did

[_]

48. He stole the comment from me

;)

[DrFunkenstein]

42. How Does One Earn Several Million Dollars?

What job is possibly deserving of such a wage? This is something I'm asking in general, not as a Kerry supporter. I've always wondered that question.

[Lurking Dem]

45. IMO this stinks to high heaven.

Maybe I am too jaded. But to me, the only reason Kerry and Dean have opted out of public funding is so they are not subject to federal spending caps and they have enough personal wealth to outspend those that are subject to the rules.

It stinks.

[IndianaGreen]

47. Bush has $200M in the bank

Taking matching funds means that the Democratic nominee will be off the air between the Convention and Labor Day, while Bush gets his free press.