Just listened to William Rivers Pitt speak in Indy

[kcwayne]

He did a great job of encapsulating the series of lies and frauds committed by the Bush Administration to orchestrate us into the war in Iraq. There was nothing he said that I did not know, but it was enjoyable to see it put together and illustrated (verbally) so well.

As much as I agree with what he said, I came away thinking that the message that Bush is an evil thug and must be replaced is not a sellable formula in the election process. The reason Clinton won after the horrors of Reagan/Bush was that he painted a picture of hope and renewal for education and public welfare, and alot of people latched onto that hope.

There is no such component to a message that simply points out that Bush is a murderous thug that profits from the pain he hoists on the world.

I know that Bush is all of that and more, but what do we sell to the middle Americans that don't have a clue about the lies and corruption, and think that anyone pointing out the facts about these things is lying?

[jeter]

1. I agree that our candidate should have a positive message

But others, like Will Pitt, should continue exposing the truth about Bush.

That's what the GOP does well. They have the message sold by their candidate and the attack dogs everywhere else.

[Green Mountain Dem]

2. God Bless William Rivers Pitt...

and what he stands for.

[glarius]

3. Do you not think that as more and more bodies come home from Iraq,

not to mention the hundreds (thousands?) of maimed and injured returning soldiers....the message of Mr. Pitt will resonate loudly?

[BiggJawn]

4. "Talk Health and Prosperity to everyone you meet"...

I can't remember where I heard that line, but i think it's a good formula.
Pity I've gotten so beat-down and depressed I can't practice it.

These are the "End Times", but it ain't Jeebus who's coming. those are Arschloch's jackboots I hear....

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[RainDog]

6. The Bush invasion

has resulted in the deaths of more Iraqi civilians since March 2003 than Saddam killed during his entire reign.

I think that's something the American people might like to know.

Puts a whole different spin on that "freeing the Iraqi people" from a sadistic ruler, huh?

[hippiechick]

7. Truth Truth Truth ....

Maybe in small spoonfuls at first until the sheeple are ready to handle bigger bites ... but as Will said, there is an ARMY of people across this country spitting mad at Bush and the Cabal, and its up to people like us to organize, energize, and educate them before next year (and even beyond) so they can make an informed decision when they hit the ballot box.

The real truth isn't getting across, and most people are lacking in the critical thinking skills to watch the nightly news and realize they're being fed pre-screened horseshit and demand the truth ... that's where people like Will come in ... and then once their eyes and ears have been opened, people like you and I can offer the organizing, candidate information, voter registration, legislators contact info, rides to the polls, whatever ....

I came away tonight feeling energized -- we, the foot soldiers, need to get on the front lines and start changing minds and spreading the word ...



:hippie: (A.K.A. 'the cute one in the family')

[Khephra]

8. Were you the ones in the front row?

I wanted to meet you, but you took off too soon to meet up, if it was you.

You could have met me, hippiechick, Voltaire, and Dr.Gonzo. You should have hung around.

(Hey Hippie? If you're the cute one, and Will is the kick-ass one, what sibling am I? The one who gets too emotional and cries too much? ;-) )

:hi: Made it home safe and sound!

[hippiechick]

9. You're the STABLE one !!

Will's the smart one, I'm the cute one .... :evilgrin:

Rock on, Bro's ~ I'm so proud of BOTH of you !!!


:hippie:


edit for icons

[sandnsea]

10. 2 parts hope, 1 part horror

I think we do have to point out what this Administration is doing in Iraq, to the environment, to workers, to the world. But we have to prove that our way is the better way and that our solutions will work and provide security, opportunity and real freedom.

[NewJeffCT]

11. True

Bush can spout positive messages all the time while the right wing media, led by Limbaugh and Fox send out the "democrats are evil, lying, negative and vicious" message.

We don't have the media to do similar.

[Don Claybrook]

12. There's a place for both Tom Paine and Ben Franklin

Just as there's a place for John Kerry and Howard Dean.

And Revolutionary firebrands and day-to-day operations people.

Both of these functions are necessary. Sometimes circumstances dictate that the day-to-day functionary turn into the firebrand. I give you Al Gore as a good example. Will Pitt won't appeal to every potential voter, but he doesn't need to. Others will work that end of the spectrum.

Thanks.

[prolesunited]

13. Umm...

Big difference in your analysis. Will is not a politician nor is he a party leader. He is delivering a message for no one but himself and it is not up to him to set the tone for the party.

As Gloria Steinam said, "The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off." I was in the audience in Bloomington. Although we already had heard many of the points he made, quite a few in the audience did not. He would ask for a show of hands of who had heard about a particular topic and only a few hands will go up.

I believe it is vitally important that people really understand what is going on and what we are up against. Pissed off people take action: They write letters and make phone calls; they tell their friends; they march; they VOTE!

Does there need to be follow-up, a way of channeling that energy and a positive vision for the future? Sure. But Will is doing a highly effective job in setting the stage.

[kcwayne]

15. Agreed

I am not trying to cast Will as a politician or in any way responsible for organizing a movement to get rid of Bush. In the spectrum of political movements he is much closer to Thomas Paine than Thomas Jefferson, to use the revolutionary war analogy.

Will's presentation dealt specifically with one part of what is wrong with the Bush Administration. It is a mobilizing and energizing point around which to build an organization of those people that want this ended. But my point is that an organization that wants to sway the majority of Americans to walk down this road with us must have a message that is not solely based on negatives. Only those of us who are pissed off will take this journey, and from what I see, we are a minority.

To me, the larger issue that would most likely attract voters is the issue of the economy. This is something that touches everyone's lives, where many simply do not care about lost Iraqi lives, and are don't hold Bush responsible for loss of lives of our soldiers.

Krugman does a good job on the economic front of exposing the fraud of the Administration. But we need more Pitts, Krugmans, Ivans, and Conasons getting exposure for talking points, and leadership of an army of people with a positive message for how we can change our nation that will attract the moderate, the non-politically aware, and the mis-informed along with the patriots that want freedom, justice, and the rule of law restored to our nation.

[prolesunited]

16. Well, then it seems

we are in agreement. Thank you for your clarification. :-)

[AP]

14. I agree. WRP's message is only one small part of whole message

that will help Democrats get elected.

I'm not saying what he does isn't great. But what's needed to win in 2004 is much bigger.

After all, if there were no Iraq and Afghanistan, are we saying that Bush would be a fine president?