Why does the RR get so upset about gays? I don't get it.

[aldian159]

This hits home a lot. A gay kid on my floor finally worked up the courage to tell his parents he was gay. Both of them shunned him and told my friend, their son, he wasn't welcome into their house. I'm crying as I type this, because this kind, sweet, gentle boy I know attempted suicide the past weekend and had to be taken to the hopsital. He's fine now, thanks God, but his parents, despite hearing the suicide news, still don't want anything to do with him. They think he's going to burn in the pits of hell for loving a man. He might be staying with me a few days over winter break, and a lot of us are getting together to house/help him over the next 6 weeks. Fortunetly, he's here on an academic scholarship, so he can keep going to school. All that for what? Because he's gay. Why can't these people be accepted for who they are, human beings? The marriage issue is a big step in the direction of a truly open and accepting society. Why can't the RR get that?

My mom said it best: "Far be it from me to tell another what happiness is."

It's all so damn sad. So damn sad.

[JackSwift]

1. Because all they have is hate

They hate themselves and everyone else, even their own children

[PurityOfEssence]

2. If recreational sex is bad, then gay sex is by definition bad

since it's not possible to procreate that way.

Fundamentalists have everything backwards: all fun and enjoyable things are bad. The only thing that's really important (eternal comfiness) is that which you can't see or experience, whereas all that you can truly see and experience is of no matter at all.

Life is so scary to them that they have to sanitize all that they can't escape or avoid, and forbid the rest of it.

I still feel that many people are just jealous of gays from some assumption that they're getting more sex.

[Dr Fate]

3. I would love to know myself...

I'm Liberal, and with my hetero buddies, the subject of "gays" practically never comes up. Nothing personal- it just never really comes up as a conversation topic or anything...

NOT SO with the Republicans I know- it ALWAYS comes up- they think about gay men or gay issues or whatever is going on in their minds A LOT.

This dude in college found out I was a DEM and sent me all these bizzare e-mails about gay men and how they were aginst god, and "all the nasty things they do to each other", blah blah blah. He had obviously given the elements and details of homosex MUCH more thought and I was ever prepared to invest...I emailed him the Log-cabin Republican site membership page and called it a draw...

[aldian159]

5. Nice Comeback, Dr.

Must have stuck a nerve.

[w4rma]

4. Maybe because they believe that they are supposed to.

And other folks who they follow (not the Bible) tell them that they are supposed to.

[proud patriot]

10. I think you hit the nail on the the head w4rma

:shrug:

[cally]

6. Helping him will not only save his life

but others who have not come out yet. You are doing a great thing.

I just don't understand how a parent can turn away from their child. I think they never truly loved their child but saw that child as an extension of themselves. I'm mostly able to forgive others, but abandoning your child when they need your love is despicable. I just don't understand why they can't come and tell him that they while they are against homosexuality, that they love him.

[benburch]

7. Well, here are some of my thoughts.

First; HUG your friend. He needs it.

Second; These people don't like anybody who is different from themselves in any way. The degree of that dislike is proportional to the difference. They are surrounded by people who think the same way. Hence, if their child is gay, then THEY are different, and will be shunned by all of their peers if they acknowledge him. That this peer pressure can dissolve the bonds of the parent/child relationship shows how strong and insidious a force it it.

The sad thing is that almost nobody fits the normative model that they all try to appear no different from. The RR is full of closeted gays! I see them at the gay leather bars on Halstead Street in Chicago all the time! But at home, at work, in their churches, they live the lie and pretend to be the very model of an upstanding Christian and Party Member. Often these are the very folks who respond most violently to a member of their inner circle who comes out as gay because not only does this threaten the security of their closet, but they are JEALOUS of the freedom that person now has to live an honest life.

It is all very, very sick.

-Ben Burch,
VP of Americans Fighting Hate; http://www.FightingHate.org/

[LoZoccolo]

15. Just out of curiosity...

Do they ever volunteer that they are religious right when you see them around their gay friends? How do they explain that to their friends in the gay community?

[benburch]

17. I'm sure they do sometimes... Not to me, though...

I *do* know of one time when, at a leather club, a minister had a panic and asked to be hidden because his BISHOP was out in the front room of the club. It had to be pointed out to him that the Bishop had just as much to explain and lose as he did.

[Sapphocrat]

19. Plus...

Hence, if their child is gay, then THEY are different, and will be shunned by all of their peers if they acknowledge him.

Good point. Such parents see it as something "wrong" they must have "done" in order for their kid to turn out queer.

Fathers of gay sons, especially, seem to view it as some sort of slur on their (Dad's) manhood, whether Dad is capable of articulating that idea or not. It's similar to fathers in denial about a child's (especially a son's) physical or developmental disability; Dad has this horrible idea bubbling in the preconscious mind that his sperm was defective or something. So he directs his misguided feelings of inadequacy against Junior.

Mothers don't seem to have as tough a time with gay sons as they do lesbian daughters (just as fathers don't have as difficult a time with lesbian daughters as they do gay sons).

This is only what I surmise after 42 years of observation and anecdotal evidence.

In my own experience, my mother never rejected me because I was gay, but while we were still going through her adjustment period, she once admitted to me that she felt that my turning out to be a lesbian was the result of her having failed me in some way.

That broke my heart to hear, especially as it was something she had kept to herself for many years after she realized I was a lesbian (long before I came out to her). She was a fantastic mom -- still is -- and, other than her propensity for being a bit germophobic, I can't imagine her ever being a "better" mom by doing anything differently. I mean, we're talking about a mom who'd make Donna Reed and June Cleaver weep with envy.

I was quick to let her know there was nothing further from the truth -- that my orientation was cemented long before it was even supposed to be (the magic age is five; I knew from the moment I was conscious of myself as a separate entity -- by two, or maybe earlier -- even if I didn't know what was "different" about me, or that it had a name, for another decade).

Eh, got off on a tangent again, didn't I? Oh, well, it's been a long night of gay threads. LOL

S. (who will NEVER catch up with 100 "religion" posts for The 700 Club at this rate)

[drfemoe]

33. This is how I see it ...

That this peer pressure can dissolve the bonds of the parent/child relationship shows how strong and insidious a force it it.

They care more about what other (the "right") people think than what is really right or wrong.

The ironic thing is that it is considered more 'holy' to disown your own child than accept something you don't understand.
I really don't know how they explain that one to their "friends".

[Momof1]

8. What really opened my eyes

My neice...my wonderful beloved neice. Lived with her partner for 5 yrs. Her partner suffered a stroke at the age of 38. And was hospitalized. Her family didn't feel comfortable...with my neice in the room. (yes they knew..they knew for at least 18 yrs, and had both for dinner millions of times)

Well she was restricted from the hospital room for weeks. Thankfully 5 days before she passed away, she was able to communicate to the Hospital Admin. that she wanted my neice to be allowed to visit. They had a joyful last couple of days because she was improving, then she had another stroke, and passed away.

They story goes on....but you get the jist.

[sasquatch]

9. Because there gay themeselves and they can't deal with it

That's what's wrong with them. Also they shit on science so they believe it's a personal choice instead of something they're born with and can't help.

[Sapphocrat]

18. Can't say that's always true, BUT...

I think you're definitely right about most cases (homophobia = homosexual arousal).

The more rabid the anti-gay bigot, the more I think about the colonel in "American Beauty."

[SlavesandBulldozers]

11. if i were him

I'd be happy to get out of my fascist parents house. I'd be sure to spit on both of my parents before I left, too.

[oxymoron]

12. I'm so sorry for your friend...

and I'm glad he has a good friend in you. This is an all too common occurrence among young gay people. Having had a similar reaction from my parents was devastating as a youth, but it turned out to be a truly cathartic time in my life. And time heals. Be close to your friend and PM if you need some support information.

Damn I'm sick and tired of hearing about this kind of thing.

[salinen]

13. gay haters

the inferior are easy to lead around by hatred. it's those base human failings that attract the non-enlightened.

[Rowdyboy]

14. As one who has lived through it

(though far less painfully than your friend) I wish him my best. He'll eventually find the family he needs-I did.

[DieboldMustDie]

16. Your mom sounds really cool!

;)

[monarch]

23. I was thinking the same thing about your mom

What a wonderful way to put it! And it's obvious how she ended up with a really terrific son. Kudos to you both. Your family shows what Christianity is supposed to be about--but hardly ever is anymore.

[alphafemale]

20. I can't imagine rejecting one of my Kids for ANYTHING!

I don't understand that at all.
Hack off a part of my body.
I'm not turning my back on my children.

Ever.

[dfong63]

21. i believe it's because of the biblical story of "sodom and gomorrah"

the religious right fears that God will destroy America just as he did S&G, because of their wickedness.

[w13rd0]

22. Have any of them actually read it though?

I mean, far be it from me to be critical, but dotcha think God would be a lil more angry about the townspeople raping and cutting up one of Lott's daughters than what they did in the privacy of their own homes between consenting partners? And if they were...oh, never mind...it's not like these people have the slightest inkling of logic running thru their noggings...

[Sapphocrat]

25. Raping and pillaging

dotcha think God would be a lil more angry about the townspeople raping and cutting up one of Lott's daughters

Hey, the day the righties can explain to my satisfaction why it was OK with God for Leah and Rachel to get Lot (their FATHER) drunk so they could have sex with him, that's the day I convert!

[Socialist Christian]

24. As a lefty Christian, i can tell you we are worse than the fundamentalist

muslims


Lets remember sodom and gomorrah for what it was. If they believe a woman was turned to salt then im sorry theres nothing i can do. We have pompeii who coincidently lived a decadent existence, and i always figured that was the inculence for the story. But thier "god" and my God are two totally different dietys one a personification, the other loving. Honestly why would you want to serve a God who create you in his image, then destroy you. Repukes can find no other reason to be anti-gay than the bible. Lot himself engaged in intercourse with his two daughters, and that was that. In fact we see alot of that in the old testament. There was something genuine in the old fear of homosexuality when the worlds population was at 62,343 people. The same could be said for celibacy, and impotence. But now in a world of 6 billion we are over populated. the only sensical thing to do is be pro gay. They love to adopt, a few i know use a carrier, but remember there were only 40,000 adoptions in the Us last year, counting foreign. We should reward people for not having kids now, but the right and thier "god" are the biggest threat to world peace. My ilk never sys it aloud what we say in private to each other, you people will never have peace until you clamp down on them. Any real Christian who is worth his weight in deeds knows the bible is nothing more than text, i personally prefer the gnostic gospels, and Jesus never said a thing about homosexuality, because it's simply not a sin. Its man made, just like the 72 virgins of islam. I still can't believe people would follow the bible, for anything more than the new testament and an account of our savior. May God help you if you follow a book that says gays burn in hell, but polygamy is holy (King Solomon)

[demigoddess]

26. One pagan writer put it really well

"God so loved the world that he condemned three-fourths of it to hell"

[SOteric]

31. I do appreciate your perspective

but as a scholar and a fellow Christian, I can assure you the original Aramaic texts of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah do not indicate that either city was destroyed over sexual acts. They indicate that the cities were destroyed over their refusal to offer hospitality to travellers and strangers and instead rape, harm and offend them.

Understanding the context of a civilisation at the time, hospitality to travellers was an important part of that society. They didn't have cars or gas stations, and the landscape was arid and foreboding. To deny water and rest to a weary traveller was the act of abomintion, not the variety of ways one might indulge in intercourse.

[Devlzown]

27. His parents will eventually come around, most likely.

My parents used to be fundies and we went through a lot of unnecessary grief for a few years. They decided they loved me more than their hateful religion. It's good that this kid has the support of friends right now. You're probably saving his life. I've known many people who grew up in similar situations, though, and the parents usually get through their denial and anger and grief and accept their child for who he/she is. Make sure he knows he's not alone and that this situation is temporary.

[maggrwaggr]

28. years ago, when I was homophobic ...

and mind you I went to high school in both a small town in Wisconsin and a big army town in Oklahoma .... my parents very conservative, from Missouri ....

I equated homosexual sex with perversity. I thought perverse was perverse, and homosexual sex wasn't much different from other forms of perversity such as necrophilia or pedophilia.

Forgive me, this is when I was 17 and 18 and just plain didn't know any better.

But I suspect that most who are angrily opposed to anything gay feel the same way.

It's a juvenile mentality, but that's where a lot of the country is.

Please don't flame me for the way I used to be. :)

on edit: even back then, I felt that gays should just keep to themselves. I didn't think that they could help it or change, I just felt like they shouldn't flaunt it.

[booisblu]

35. This isn't a flame,

but what does this statement-" even back then, I felt that gays should just keep to themselves. I didn't think that they could help it or change, I just felt like they shouldn't flaunt it. "- mean exactly? And I have heard this before. What exactly are we flaunting? The fact that we want to hold hands or hug our partners in public just like the het's? So, showing you love someone is flaunting..well, what exactly? Are you flaunting your heterosexuality when you kiss your spouse in public? Should you be told to stop and hide your feelings because an ignorant segment of society might find that offensive? Seriously, the fact that this nation is moving backwards in term of mentality is getting extremely frustrating and tiresome. I wonder if it's even worth fighting for anymore.

[maggrwaggr]

29. I worked on a documentary about teen suicide once and

the experts we interviewed said a hell of a lot of teen suicides were from exactly this. A very high percentage, teens who realized they were gay, or were even just confused about their sexuality, and were completely freaked out about it and knew their parents would disown them, etc. etc. so they'd get suicidal.

It's very sad. Our society does not know how to deal with this.

[truthspeaker]

32. I don't have the stats

But I suspect a lot of homeless teens are in the same boat. Come out-get kicked out.

[WoodrowFan]

30. can you help him find a gay-friendly church??

Can you help him find a gay-friendly church? He's not only been cut off from his family but from a major social system he grew up with. Finding some kind Christians I am assuming he's Christian) who believe that we're ALL God's children might help him in his loneliness and restore part of his loss.


It's not very Christian but GOD I'd love to slug his parents.

[stanwyck]

34. Control Freaks

they want to control because they're insecure about themselves. They home-school because they fear other adults teaching their children. They attend rigid churches. They abhor intellectuals, books, creativity, travel, and learning about the world. They want control over women's bodies and over everyone's sex lives. Confident, self-reliant people don't become fundamentalist Christians.

[canuckagainstBush]

36. .

I hope the fundies hate shellfish eaters as much as they hate gays, otherwise their literalism would be merely selective.

:wtf:

[truthspeaker]

37. I've tried to use that argument before

Apparently there's a passage in the NT where an angel appears to Paul and tells him he can eat anything. There might be another passage in the NT implying that the dietary rules no longer apply.

Doesn't say anything about the garments made of more than one kind of fabric or the proper way to sacrifice a ram though, so those rules should still be in effect.

[stanwyck]

38. Women must be silent

Ah, sometimes I wish that were true...though I'm a woman. Imagine if Ann Coulter and her evil conservative sisters (Mona Charen, Maggie Gallagher, etc) would all BE QUIET. So, how do fundamentalist conservative women rationalize that abomination...women speaking, women teaching, women leading? These people treat the word of God like a Chinese menu. You get to choose what you want.