Young Black Males, Job Untouchables?

[G_j]

ARE YOUNG BLACK MALES AMERICA'S JOB UNTOUCHABLES? Earl Ofari Hutchinson, AlterNet

An astronomically high number of young black males are not just jobless, they are also in mortal danger of becoming job untouchables. http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=17203

An astronomically high number of young black males are not just jobless, they are also in mortal danger of becoming job untouchables. According to the Labor Department, nearly forty percent of young blacks are now unemployed. This comes on the heels of the Bush administration's tout of the increase in more than 100,000 new jobs in the past few months.

The high jobless numbers for young blacks stunned the Congressional Black Caucus and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi. They reflexively blamed President Bush for the high unemployment numbers. They claimed that his fiscal and economic policies have resulted in the loss of millions of jobs during his years in office. They demand that he radically increase funding for job training programs and provide more tax incentives for the working poor.

But the jobless crisis among young blacks is not new and can't be totally blamed on Bush's dubious fiscal and economic policies. Even during the Clinton-era economic boom, the unemployment rate for young black males was double, and in some parts of the country triple, that of white males. Discrimination, racial profiling, failing public schools, and broken homes are the easy answers that explain their Great Depression-era high unemployment numbers.
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[liberalhistorian]

1. The guy who robbed me at gunpoint

in my work parking lot in August this year was black, I'd say around 18 or 19, he could easily have pulled the trigger of the gun he jammed in my ribs without blinking an eye. For a few weeks, I'm terribly ashamed to admit that actually found myself thinking in a racist manner when it came to subjects like this, bullshit like well, if they'd quit robbing people and committing crimes all the time maybe people wouldn't be afraid of them and they wouldn't have to worry about not having jobs.

I was even afraid of every black male I saw, whether teenager or adult. Yes, I know how ridiculous and stupid and racist and wrong that was. Emotionally, though, at that time, that was just the way I felt.

I came to my senses, of course, and have given a cheerful earful to those who still make racist remarks to me about the robber, asking them if they'd say that about all whites if the kid had been white instead of black and reminding them of the many, many white male teens and adults that are in the news, including locally, for their crimes. Now that I've long since come to my senses, I wonder about the robber (he's never been caught, and I have yet to get ahold of the officer in charge of my case, haven't spoken to him since it happened three months ago, I guess they don't care about things like that unless you're actually shot and hurt or killed), what made him do what he did, how he could be so casual about hurting me, etc.

Was he a drug addict who was desperate for a fix? Did he have some urgent economic need that made him desperate (if so, I would have tried to have helped him without the encouragement of a loaded gun jammed in my ribs and then my neck when he demanded the PIN# of my ATM card). Or was he tired of not being able to get a job because of the stereotypical misperceptions of potential white employers, who see all black males as potential or probable criminals), was he getting desperate and, if so, did he just think the hell with it, I need money and can't get a job anyway? Was he angry that he wasn't being given a chance to prove himself through honest employment? I wonder about that all the time.

[SPellier]

12. What a bizarre scenario

Sadly, it seems you went from one racist extreme to the other...

Your first thought was that you were victimized, not by a criminal, but by a black criminal, therefore all blacks must be bad. You were actually scared of black people.

Now, apparently, you've come to your senses and you try to rationalize the whole incident by claiming he might have been desperate for a fix, or he had some urgent economic need! Would you have considered that possibility if the guy who robbed you was white? You go on and make it even worse with nonsense about "stereotypical misperceptions of potential white employers".

Is it so hard to believe you were robbed by a criminal who violated your rights and should be in jail? Does it have to be about race with you?

[Skittles]

13. I don't think it's nonsense and your condescending attitude SUCKS

unlike idiot freepers we do actually CARE about the reasons things happen. Because we know that treating the ROOT CAUSE makes SENSE.

This poster is just being HONEST about their thoughts - something I wish YOU would do somewhere ELSE.

[SPellier]

16. Fair enough

If a white guy robbed you, would you assume that:

- He was a drug addict who was desperate for a fix
- He had some urgent economic need that made him desperate
- He was tired of not being able to get a job because of the stereotypical misperceptions of potential white employers who see all black males as potential or probable criminals
- He was getting desperate and just thought to hell with it, I need money and can't get a job anyway?
- He was angry that he wasn't being given a chance to prove himself through honest employment?

Tell me, Skittles, would you make the above assumptions?

[incontrovertible]

17. Some of them

If a white guy robbed you, would you assume that:

- He was a drug addict who was desperate for a fix

Yeah.

- He had some urgent economic need that made him desperate

Yeah, most likely the economic need for money for his drug.

- He was tired of not being able to get a job because of the stereotypical misperceptions of potential white employers who see all black males as potential or probable criminals

It's been my experience that most criminals aren't frustrated with an inability to find gainful employment. Most of them aren't interested in that. They're interested in getting moeny, right now, without having to endure being told what to do, because fuck everyone else. My heart tends not to bleed for the poor disadvantaged muggers.

- He was getting desperate and just thought to hell with it, I need money and can't get a job anyway?

I seriously doubt the inability to get a job crosses the mind of 99.9999999 percent of all criminal types.

- He was angry that he wasn't being given a chance to prove himself through honest employment?

See points three and four.

[SPellier]

23. Point being...

In this sort of case, race doesn't matter. I was trying to NOT make it an issue and I think we have succeeded.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fescue4u]

18. Who cares what his problem was

I mean really. This thug came within a reflex of killing you.

If a thug did that to me, that last thing I would care about would be his job prospects.

[wellst0nev0ter]

21. There's Little Reason For YBM's To Avoid Becoming Criminals

Because even black males with no criminal records get hired less than white males with criminal records.

http://www.northwestern.edu/ipr/publications/papers/2002/WP-02-37.pdf

[loudnclear]

2. Very important info

so I'm kicking~!

[cally]

3. 40 percent!

I knew the unemployment rates of young A-A men was horrible but not this bad. We have a crises in this country and we better figure out how to solve this. We have to solve this problem if we want a thriving community life.

[1songbird]

4. What's even more frightening is that

it will get worse. I saw a similar story earlier about this. Some of the reasons they gave for the high unemployment numbers was because employers now have a slew of people in the workforce that are more "desirable" to choose from. Even working for McDonald's is not a possibility for many black males because there are so many of Latin decent that compete for these jobs and employers feel more comfortable hiring them.

There has been a complete failure by our community to help the neediest among us. W.E.B. DuBois gave the solution but we are not adhering to it. Instead AAs that make it out of poverty don't look back and help those that are still struggling myself included. It is shameful and it needs to stop.

[Nay]

5. The most important thing we can say to young black males is

to stay in school and learn something, for god's sakes. Quit thinking you are going to be the next big rap star, basketball player,etc. It ain't gonna happen for 99.99% of you, so PLEASE make other plans for yourself. Learn to work on cars. Learn accounting or architecture. FORGET the people who tell you that learning is for white folks or chumps.

Learn to DO something besides hang out. When I see 20-somethings of any race or sex just hanging around for hours, I want to scream at them, "Go DO something! Go LEARN something! Go VISIT someone who has an interesting job or hobby! STOP watching TV, listening to music, and hanging out!"

[1songbird]

6. May I ask your background if it's okay?

[economic justice]

7. That's exactly right

I work with young black men and women day in and day out. About JOBS. The one thing I try to get across is to stop the "victim" mentality, (and beyond that)... turn down the frickin' radio when you pull into a workplace (you'd be surprised), set goals and don't become a full-time nothing (for ANY reason), continue your education (and help them find the funding) and do not GIVE UP or Give IN.

[Isome]

24. Doubtful... highly! n/t

[FlaGranny]

27. I used to have to walk by the personnel office

on the way to my office. I absolutely could not believe the way some young people, both black and white, came to a job interview. Dirty sneakers, unkempt hair, dreadlocks, stained t-shirts with logos on them, holey jeans, the works. They would come in and slouch (not sit) in the chair. And this in a hospital! I'm sure they went away from their interviews feeling sorry for themselves because they didn't get hired. These young people may have felt like victims, but they were their own worst enemies in job interviews. Some young people have never learned to present themselves well enough to get hired.

[1songbird]

28. Mam, no disrespect but wearing dreadlocks

is a cultural choice. There is nothing wrong with well kept dreadlocks. I've worked with successful, highly educated people that wore dreadlocks.

[FlaGranny]

30. I disagree -

Dreadlocks are no longer completely cultural. I see many dreadlocks and sometimes the hair in them is naturally blond. There's also nothing wrong with jeans, sneakers and t-shirts. Put them all on together and go on a job interview in a place where there is concern about personal appearance and cleanliness and see how fast you can get hired. First impressions are important, especially in job interviews. If you LOOK sloppy in your appearance, the assumption is you will BE sloppy in your performance.

P.S. Appearance at a job interview is not a race issue, at all, as it applies to a some few young folks of all races. Heck, my oldest son, while he was in college, looked like a mountain man with his long hair and long beard. He worked for his father part time cleaning windows for customers. He did an excellent job as he's a perfectionist, but nevertheless, there were some people who would not accept him, because of his appearance. When he graduated from college, he bought himself a suit and tie, cut his hair and trimmed his beard neatly, and went on his interviews. Would he have been more or less likely to be hired as a professional before or after?

In a perfect world, appearance would not matter, I guess. But, on the other hand, in a perfect world everone would be pleasing to look at. Realistically, if you are applying for a job, you must look the part, else you won't get the job.

[1songbird]

35. To make value judgements

about an individual based on their cultural expression is closed minded. You don't have to like dreadlocks but they are culturally and religiously based. Many people adapt other culture's expressions for different reasons but it does not change the cultural significance for those that adhere to it. I think the original premise was bogus here because you are assuming that people with dreads don't get jobs. This is not the case so we shouldn't even have this conversation. You don't personally like dreads, okay I accept that but don't speak for what should be acceptable for everyone else.

[Dirk39]

9. The most important thing we can say to young white males is

to stop voting for Bush or neoliberals of any kind, to stop supporting politicians, who are willing to spend more money for prisons than for education. Your statement somehow is as cynical as all those neoliberals , who tell the unemployed, who simply have no chance to find a job, 'cause there are no jobs, to stop being lazy and hanging around.

"FORGET the people who tell you that learning is for white folks or chumps."
Sounds to me like:
Forget the people, who tell you that white skin is for white folks only

Hello from Germany,
Dirk

[1songbird]

10. Hello Dirk, Good points

[Nikia]

11. But is it fair to require a college education for every job

Of course, it is important for all minorities to become more educated and get training. That is a way not to be the victim. The problem though is that there are many places of business that do not require college degrees or technical training in order to get a job that hire many white people with no higher education and little or no experience. They hesitate to give the black person or whatever other minority in the area that has a bad reputation (in our area it is Hmongs) these jobs unless they have some kind of degree or specific industry experience to prove that they are competent. That is unfair. A job listing that says experience or education preferred but will train the right person shouldn't mean that the person has to be white to be the right person.

[camero]

8. The EEOC is basically toothless

Thanks to no enforcement of discrimination laws by the Bushies. The numbers were still up during Clinton, but the gap was narrowing.

Corporations put spin on this problem by calling them "unemployable".
Well, guess what, somebody has to give them thier start.

[noiretextatique]

14. would this be more alarming if it was "white" instead of "black?"

as an economic and social problem vs. a personal one? i am commenting on the assumptions made in some responses here. is it possible, for example, that some of the young black males in these numbers are high school and college graduates? don't play basketball? don't like rap music, and don't want to be rap musicians?
don't listen to the radio real loud? aren't drug addicts...or criminals? speak standard english? and so on? just wondering...

[1songbird]

15. Well you know how things are

It's easier to just assume the worst. You don't have to be concerned if it's just "THOSE" people.

[noiretextatique]

19. thanks for answering my question

:hi:

[noiretextatique]

20. thanks for answering my question

:hi:

[G_j]

22. exactly, very simply

the common denominator is being young, black and male.

[democratreformed]

26. I have a story to tell and I'd like an (some) opinion(s)

When I was a public school teacher, one day I had a student and the basketball coach come to me asking for help. I had this particular student in Algebra. He was a decent Algebra student but needed a really good grade to make up for some poorer grades in other classes.
As I said, he was a decent Algebra student. BUT, this student (10th grade) could not subtract to save his life.

So, I made a deal with him. I told him if he would come in every single day at break to learn subtraction, I would "fix" his GPA problem - meaning I would give him an A in my class. He came every day and worked very hard. And every 9 weeks, I put and A on his report card.

The next year I moved to a different school, but I still saw this student when my old school played my new one in basketball. I really enjoyed watching him play.

After a couple of years at my new school, the basketball coach came there and was our high school assisstant principal. I asked about that student. He said some pretty nasty things and reported that my student was now in prison for armed robbery. I was devastated and hesitated to believe it until I actually saw for myself his name on the inmate list of the state prison.

At the time I was working with him, and for several years afterward, I believed that what I had done was right. I felt like I had helped him have the opportunity to do something he loved in return for doing something he had problems with.

Now, when I look back, I wonder if it really was the right thing to do. Did I help reinforce the idea that he could get special treatment because of his athletic abilities? Did I cause him to resent people further along in his life who would not do those kinds of things for him?

I was just wondering what some of you thought about this.

[noiretextatique]

33. did you give him the grade he deserved?

and did you do your best to teach him algebra? i think that is the beginning, and the end, of your moral debt in this situation.

[democratreformed]

34. I guess

it could be seen this way. He probably would have gotten a low B in the class or maybe a high C. I gave him enough extra credit for his extra work at break to make it an A. That was what he needed to raise his grade point enough to play ball.

[redqueen]

29. We really need to talk openly about race.

Really we do.

This issue is being used to divide and conquer us, and so far it's working.

We need to band together and discuss these problems, and address them. Part of the problem is that we're so divided by class and race.

People of all colors who are born into poverty often don't even try to escape. It's proven that stress on the mother during pregnancy affects the child long after they're born. Stress is a very debilitating factor in all our lives, and we have to deal with it.

I don't think criminals even feel like real people. I think most of them are so divorced from reality and society that they view themselves as outside of it -- most likely as beneath it, which allows them to feel less for their victims since they see themselves as a victim first. It's a maddening cycle. You can tell them to stop being victims but this doesn't address the root cause -- this doensn't begin to deal with WHY they feel outside, separate.

IMO the best way to help deter this kind of thing is in school and with parents. We need to teach empathy. We need to teach inclusion. We need to teach love and respect and optimism. Kids see so much hate and violence and opportunism now -- from everyone from the President to their parents. We need to counter that.

Why are we so disconnected from each other?

geez ... sorry to be so long winded...

[FlaGranny]

31. Agree completely with everything you've said.

..

[MadHound]

32. Part of the blame lies with Affirmitive Action, don't flame, please listen

When AA and EEOC came into being, and the practice continues to this day, quotas, hard numbers, were the measure of a company's success in being diverse. They would go down the yearly list, patting themselves on the back with "Oooo, we hired four new black employees this year! And aaahh, we hired four new female employees too!" Little known to the CEO was the fact that human resources was cooking the books. After AA and EEOC became mainstreamed, black females were the favorite minority to hire, because corporations could mark them down as a twofer. And unfortunetly, this practice still continues. Some of the sentiment is undoubtly racist, in that human resources doesn't want to hire a "scary" black man, but a black woman is much less threatening. Other sentiments are simply padding the books, why score with one person/one minority, when with a black female you can get a twofer!

That being said, I do support Affirmitive Action and EEOC. I think some of the above named quirks should be worked out of the system, but all in all, I think it works. And I'm a white male, who has never felt he has been cheated by the AA system.