What does "They hate freedom" really mean?

[BurtWorm]

This is Bush's stock response to terrorist attacks. He said it again today in response to the blasts in Istanbul that killed 25 people and injured hundreds this morning. I despise Bush, so it's not surprising that I don't take an ounce of comfort or any other kind of nourishment from these words. I just wonder if anyone possibly could.

Bush delivers these words as though he's trying to explain terror to himself. But a) I don't think "freedom" has anything to do with these acts, which are insanely "free" of any restraint, and b) I don't think Bush has the wattage to understand anything more than what Karl Rove explains to him very slowly.

[morgan2]

1. they hate our freedom...

to profit from their resources. Overthrow their governments.. The list goes on.

[La_Serpiente]

2. According to Bush's logic

your either with us or against us. I guess the farmers in Iraq who had their hundreds-year old olive trees destroyed hated our freedoms as well.

[bearfartinthewoods]

31. trying thinking about it as they fear our freedom.

i had a talk with someone about this and hir take was that bush means
the super conservative islamic denominations fear our culture, our freedom to indulge in the behaviors their beliefs proscribe. if our freedom, our culture spreads into their domain, they fear the siren's song of brittany and women's rights. they hate what they fear.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

3. I doubt that Bushboy even knows or cares what it means

It's a sentence with "freedom" in it, so it sounds good to him and the unreflective masses.

[lefty_mcduff]

4. Orwellian Gobbledy Gook

Sounds good to the mouth breathers.

[NeonLX]

12. My nine year old daughter sez...

..."And now, an excerpt from Bush's latest speech"...right before she cuts a fart.

Smart kid. Her version makes a lot more sense than whatever actually comes out of the pinhead's mouth.

[BurtWorm]

15. That's good!

My daughter would love to add that to her repertoire! (I might have to introduce it to her.)

;)

[lapislzi]

41. She sounds just like my kid (also 9)

She goes into paroxysms every time he says "nook-u-luhr."

We need a DU kids gathering! They need evidence that there are plenty of other kids who feel the way they do, who are informed and active, unlike most of their classmates.

[NeonLX]

42. Problem is...

...our kids can often become pariahs at their schools or even with their friends. My daughter goes to school with a bunch of repuglican kids. I'd say the parents at our school are 98% repuglican--no exaggeration (you should see the Bush/Cheney bumperstickers in the school parking lot). My daughter made some crack about Bush during recess one day and was handed a note by a classmate later on, telling her what a "godly man" Bush is. Sheesh.

[E_Zapata]

5. It's just a cloaked way to say: Americans, there's a 'they' that want you

dead......stay real scared; I will take care of everything.

[IronLionZion]

6. sieg heil!

Goebbels would have been proud at the propaganda the Rove machine pulls out of its ass. "Freedom itself was attacked" is the type of bullshit that will control weak minds and string them along to their hidden evil agenda.

Be afraid! Bush will protect you!

[FlaGranny]

It always struck me as an extremely silly thing

to say. No one hates his own freedom. What people hate is others preventing them from exercising their own freedoms. Even dictators love freedom - their own. I think the terrorists love freedom as much as we do. They just love their own brand of it.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

7. Absolutely Nothing. Convenient and meaningless. Multi-purpose

ie "They Hate Freedom", "They are Attacking Freedom", "I Love Freedom", "Take all their Freedom away" That sort of thing.

[farmbo]

8. Probably his re-selection slogan for 2004

" Vote Bush/Cheney in 2004...because (insert name of Democratic nominee here) hates our freedom."

[eileen_d]

9. It means "They Aren't Americans"

And therefore they don't deserve to be treated like human beings.

I also agree with lots of the other answers in this thread so far.

[rman]

28. just wait for "domestic terrorism"

by "unpatriotic" Americans.

[PVnRT]

10. "If you don't support Bush, you hate freedom"

That's what it really means. In fact, every dipshit slogan that the right-wing comes up with really means that, in the end.

[Kolesar]

11. ...Reinforcing the image that America is the beacon of goodness

One must keep repeating such a message so that the American public does not dwell on the fact that we beat the living hell out of countries that oppose our interests, no matter how petty or avaricious.

[mhr]

13. Translation: They Hate Plutocracy And Corpocracy

eom

[Brucey]

14. I have talked with conservatives who go on and on about

freedom. I have asked them to define freedom and they have been unable to do so. People don't think through these things. I doubt if Bush has thought it out. It's just a saying that pleases people in the US because they think they're free and others aren't and it's easy to say that people hate us for this instead of for the things we do and what we represent. If pressed, I'll bet Bush and most repugs think freedom means capitalism, and that capitalism to them means that they and their friends can do anything they want to take money from others but that others should be restricted. Off the subject, but I think it's the same with violence. If China uses military action against Taiwan it wouldn't surprise me to hear Bush say that countries should not use military force to get their way. I don't think he sees the hypocrisy in his thinking.

[Mattforclark]

17. Can Bush actually think?

I wonder if he's even a conscious entity.

He is very skilled at making assertions but very bad at making arguments. That tends to signal a lack of thinking.

[dmkinsey]

20. Right on

I like your thinking

[BurtWorm]

21. I think you're right about both

what freedom means to the Bushists (crony capitalism) and how uncritical thinking makes for shame-free hypocrisy.

[theorist]

16. "Cheerleading rah-rah bullsh*t"

(as David Cross would say)

"They hate freedom" is an oversimplified analysis of why terrorists do what they do, and is further evidence to the fact that Bush is dangerous. He actually believes that all of the non-Christians (probably including Catholics) are going to hell. To Bush the world is only good and evil, black and white. This is why we must fear his foreign policy.

[LeahMira]

18. Let me explain...

Burt, you are going to have every lurking FReeper telling his buds that we are all so dense that we don't understand the English language... even the simplest statements therein.

Now then... Bush imagines that the people living in Islamic nations know that we Americans can speak out publicly to criticize our leaders, that we can worship at the church of our choice, that we can work at the jobs of our choice, that we can demand that our rights be respected and actually make things change so that those rights are respected, and so on and so on and so on.

Meanwhile, Bush imagines that the people living in Islamic nations are angry that we can do all these things which they cannot.

BUT, rather than insisting that their own nations make changes, the people in Islamic nations prefer to continue as they are, and they deeply resent America's insistence that they also have the opportunities that we have.

IOW, they like living in the thirteenth century.

Now, as I see it, Bush also imagines that America should live strictly by the words of the U.S. Constitution (as in strict construction) that was written in the late 18th century, and that he imagines that America should live according to the moral understandings set down in the Bible that was written at various times, but none much later than the second century, which (averaged out) means that he imagines we all like living somewhere in the eleventh century.

And Bush imagines that the people living in the Islamic nations are angry that they cannot live there with us.

Like you, Burt, I find some of this quite confusing and rather difficult to rationalize or assimilate, but at least there it is set out in plain English for you. Actually, I don't think we Americans are supposed to be able to rationalize it all, but we are expected to assimilate it... on faith.

[BurtWorm]

19. Well, that is, of course, the surface meaning of Bush's phrase

the way he wants it to be heard and understood. But I'm trying to imagine another leader saying anything as inane and I can't come up with one. Not even Reagan.

I know you know this, but maybe the lurking freepers would be interested to consider that a "president's" saying this has zero calories. It does not adequately explain terrorism, as if terrorism can ever adequately be explained in three words. It does not give comfort. At most it is a boast and a taunt. "Nyah nyah, terrists, we have freedom, and you-ou-ou do-on't! Bring it on!"

[soothsayer]

22. Same thing you can say about the Patriot Act-mongers, and the anti-

choice crowd. And the anti-gay rights crowd. And anyone who can't separate church and state.

They hate freedom. It terrifies them.

[BurtWorm]

25. Right!

This morning, I was reading about the people setting upon Massachusetts to ban gay marriages and the phrase "they hate freedom" actually did come into my mind.

[bhunt70]

23. thank you thank you thank you

I wondered if I was the only person who was questioning this rhetoric.

[adriennel]

24. the only 3 words he can remember

"they hate freedom" has no real meaning. but he thinks it sounds good and can retain it in his teeny short term memory.

[kentuck]

26. Take this freedom!

We insist!

[rman]

27. supposedly there's no rationale to terrorist activity

When it comes to why terrorist are doing what they are doing, the RW answer is they'r just evildoers, they hate freedom. so there's no point in trying to resolve terrorism other then by pre-emptive strikes.
That is assuming the traditional definition of terrorism, not the new RW definition where basically anyone who's being even remotely criminal can be labeled a terrorist.
So far "domestic terrorism" has involved a pipe-bomb (alledged WMD) and some metamphetamine (alledged chemical weapon).

[arcane1]

29. ah, that's Catch Phrase # 184655A

Bush's favorite, apparently...

[fshrink]

30. Here goes:

1- It's simple. 2 words. That's all he can remember.

2- That's the only way in which he can be convincing because everybody knows that he is limited. On occasion, rare words (e.g. "awe", "might") can be used. It also suggests that the individual may have some depth but that is is shy, reserved or perhaps even wise in a Forest Gump kind of way.

3- It's universal. Nobody likes hate, everybody likes freedom. It doesn't matter what the context is: people will immediately agree. It's a well known trick.

4- It suggests that he embodies victimhood. Like a child beat up in the school yard.

5- It's a way of saying "Evil" or "Devil" without using the words. There's no way to reason with the Evil, thus any means is justified to oppose it. Which is what he's trying to sell.

The irony is that he represents those who actually see in freedom an impediment and to their best to restrict it for their own profit.

[chookie]

32. My semantic analysis

I agree with the general observations made here, but wish to add the following: the logic goes like this: "America is a democracy (highly emotionally charged term for we Americans) -- even when we are acting more like a militaristic imperial oppressor (nothing to see here, move along please). We don't want you to figure out that people are against us because of some of the nasty things we have been involved with and our aggressive show of fundamentalist freemarketism and power under Bush -- so we expect you to believe that these people are merely deranged.

Also -- listen to them parse. "Democracy" is also a code word for "Israel." Therefore, when Israel is opposed or attacked, it has nothing to do with the land issue, but because Israel is a "democracy," just like us. *That's* why people hate us -- because we have an advanced state of government.

It''s really enough to make you spew. Bush is one of the guys who have been involved in the demolition of democracy in America and elsewhere, and it is highly ironic that he pretends to love freedom, when he in fact depises it, and represses it here, and abroad.

Basically though, it is meaningless gobbledygook, meant to strike an emotional nerve, and get us to march off to fight the wars to keep him in absolute power -- to act reflexively, and not to *think.*

I deeply grieve that at a time when our country is facing a menancing threat, we have a pig in charge who is just making everything worse, through incompetence and hidden personal motivations. He's going to be able to cut and run, and our beloved nation will face the consequences for many years to come.

I am highly pessimistic about the future. Democracy is probably dead in America. We are now ruled by a Despot, with the thinnest veneer of personal freedom. If we don't pull off an election victory in 2004 -- we will have betrayed the achievement of Democracy. Alas, democracies have risen, and fallen, as have empires -- we have lived to see the beginning of the end of Democracy in America.

[NeonLX]

38. You said a mouthful

And I agree 100%

[BurtWorm]

39. Very well said.

You expressed a lot of what I was thinking about this phrase but didn't have the patience to express. Thanks for having the patience and facility to express it.

[phillybri]

33. It means "for us our against us"....

Hell of a foreign policy we've got here....

[Scott Lee]

34. First off, it's an absolute 100% bullshit lie

My alma mater is George Mason University. I went to school there with a lot of Arabs, from many countries scattered throughout the Arab world.

They had nice clothes. This was before cell phones, but I'm sure they would have had those too. They drove nice cars. They had money in their pockets. They went out clubbing with us at night. They were enjoying every bit of "freedom" that anglo guys like me had.

And no, they weren't sons and daughters of oil sheikhs.

Every one of the 9/11 hijackers had the same stuff, same access to the acutrements of "freedom".

Bush and his followers fail to comprehend that there are people in the world who are ready to sacrifice all for something besides money and possessions. Some of them for a religious fundamentalist principle, others to get the US out of their faces in their home regions. None of them have yet made an issue of hating us for our "freedom" or our "things".

One other thing to consider. The psychological attribute known as "projecting" holds that we sometimes call others on actions that we do or are prepared to do ourselves. Could it be that the pious accusations of "hating us for our freedom" are borne of our own desire, and government policies, to rob it from others?

[Selwynn]

35. They don't have Canada - Canada's free....

...must be some other reason why they hate the UNITED STATES so much... hmm... let me think.... hmm....

:eyes:

[realityboy]

36. Conversely America is trying to "destroy Islam"

Thats the counter rhetoric of the Islamists. Of course both the "hate freedom" and "destroying Islam" charges could be correct, depending on whose definition of freedom and Islam were talking about. I dont ever recall Bin Laden saying he was gonna Islamify the US, just as I never recall Bush saying he was going to destroy Islam, but there is a difference though.

When Bin Laden says he wants to topple the Arab regimes, install Taliban style governments and defeat Israel, he means what he says. Those are his stated goals, and hes prepared to unleash as much terror as he can to do acheive them. Thats his version of Islam, and the US is standing in his way. So he is correct by his definitions.

When Bush says he wants promote freedom in the ME, bring peace, human rights, democracy etc. I dont know what the hell hes talking about. If he said his policies were to strenthen Israel, promote Zionist expansionism, keep friendly regimes in power and ensure the flow of oil, I would understand him entirely. Of course there may be a misunderstanding on my part and Bush maybe using his own defintions of peace, freedom etc. but that would be just another thing him and Bin Laden have in common.

[Beaker]

37. "They're cutting into my rich friends profits, and driving up their costs.

Why, what did you think it meant?

[opihimoimoi]

40. Bush is talking NUMBERs. Who doesn't want FREEDOM?

Therefore, he is talking to a very LARGE GROUP of PEOPLE.

This is what they hear: "What,?? somebody attacking MY FREEDOM??"

"Well, les go get 'um"

Pure PysOps, brainwashing.