mysterious new weapon being used by Iraqis

[donsu]

saw this at www.buzzflash.com in an article from the Chicago Tribune (not reg.)

the Iraqi freedom fighters have a weapon that fires projectiles the size of a pencil eraser that can (and apparently has) take out a M1 Abrams Battle Tank.
how curious.



(aren't all tanks battle tanks? are tanks used for anything else?)

[Occulus]

1. Rail gun?

That's about the only thing I can think of that could do the job with a projectile that small, but the forward velocity would have to be ridiculous. The only way they could achieve that kind of technology is with some major funding.

As I understand rail guns, the size of the capacitors used is the key. You can get schematics all over the net for a simple gun, and the basic design remains the same regardless of size. However, the barrier keeping this from becoming a viable handheld weapon is just that- the size of the capacitors and their correspondingly increasing charge time the larger you get.

Maybe someone hurdled that barrier....

edit: buried in the article is mentioned that it appeared to be a bullet filled with molten metal. Innnteresssting.....

[donsu]

2. interesting - thanks for the info

nt

[Code_Name_D]

25. Its not a electro-magnetic rail gun.

I don't see how magneticly or electrosaticly driven projietciles could posibly compeat with good old fasioned gun-powder.

But they may be using a "rail bullet." The key to percing armor is mass. This is why we use DU, its dense. But you can do the same thing just by making the bullet longer & narrower.

Just a speculation here.

[DrWeird]

3. Yes, third world countries are known for state-of-the art weapons.

nt

[Occulus]

5. snerk

well, I can build ya a rail gun. Or, you could. You can get most or all the parts at Radio Shack, not including the projectile.

Like I said, the schematics for a backyard test gun are on the net. Now, if ya got the knowledge to make it a deadly weapon... well... someone else likely does as well. Maybe many someones... and eventually, one of them hits on the solution and off we go!

[mistertrickster]

15. They are a third world country after the Saddam and Bush double

whammy. But Iraq has a lot of highly trained and educated people. If we gave the 87 billion to them directly and put them to work instead of Halliburton, there might be a lot less discontent and terror. Iraq is a lot more technologically advanced than Vietnam was when we fought it.

[knowledgeispower]

31. Very true

People seem to forget that Iraq was actually a very successful nation in the 70's and 80's, thanks in no small part to U.S. aid to stop Iran from taking over Iraq.

Iraq had an extremely high literacy rate, the people were very educated, almost everyone had access to health care, and so forth.

But, with regard to these weapons, I think they are coming from a foreign government. Russia or China would be my best guess, but you can't say for sure. There are so many nations out there that want to bring the U.S. down, thanks to George W. Bush's arrogance.

[JailBush]

4. I saw an article about a tank that was apparently hist by such a weapon.

But if they really had such a weapon, wouldn't they use it on more than one tank?

[Occulus]

6. testing the viability

or something.

[Blue_Chill]

18. These weapons aren't rare

It could very easily be some sort of Sabot round. Large caliber small projectile kinetic weapon.

Nothing new.

[TexasMexican]

7. Alien weapons, UFOs, and Saddam Hussein

http://english.pravda.ru/main/2003/01/31/42821.html

Ofcourse the real reason for the Iraq war was to so we could get the UFO and its technology.

It appears we are too late and Saddam's people have already begun reverse engineering alien weapons.

[hippiechick]

28. OMG ! A 'medium' said the same thing last spring !

in a 'speak as you wish' segment at the congregation I used to belong to ... that the war in Iraq was not about oil or terror, but that the aliens who out us here in the first place were getting ready to return and the US wanted to be there first to take all the technology and thwart the 'reclaiming' of the planet.


I shit you not !!! :tinfoilhat:



:hippie:

[Walt Starr]

8. Hmmm, maybe the Iraqis got ahold of some

spray on teflon and are making armour piercing bullets.

It's not tough to do.

[htuttle]

9. When this story first broke

I remember a bunch of those familiar with military rounds suggesting that it was something called a 'sabot' round. Apparently there are a number of anti-tank projectiles that would fit the description.

[jayfish]

23. Here Is The Thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=645320

Jay

[nostamj]

10. the Army Times had a feature story

it was posted her with discussion about a week ago...

[soothsayer]

11. the freepers have a hilarious thread on this (not intentionally funny)

Not that it's not well meaning. It starts out something like: Guys, lets put our military and engineering knowledge together and and help them figure this out like we helped with the space shuttle disaster.

For some reason that just cracked me up!

They're so cute over there.

[Loonman]

13. Single handedly

They think they singlehandedly got the CBS Reagan thing off the air.


Deluded...

[drfemoe]

35. Showtime

or someone is going to air it .. "they" just intimated cbs.

[Mattforclark]

16. RPG-22 /Army Times

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292236-2336437.php

"In addition, the Russians have developed an improved weapon, the RPG-22. These and perhaps even newer variants have been used against American forces in Afghanistan. It is believed U.S. troops seized some that have been returned to the United States for testing, but scant details about their effects and "fingerprints" are available.

Still another possibility is a retrofitted warhead for the RPG system being developed by a Swiss manufacturer.

At this time, it appears most likely that an RPG-22 or some other improved variant of the Russian-designed weapon damaged the M1 tank, sources concluded. The damage certainly was caused by some sort of shaped-charge or hollow-charge warhead, and the cohesive nature of the destructive jet suggests a more effective weapon than a fragmented-jet RPG-7.

A spokesman for General Dynamics Land Systems, which manufactures the Abrams, said company engineers agree some type of RPG probably caused the damage. After checking with them, the spokesman delivered the manufacturer's verdict: The tank was hit by "a 'golden' RPG" - an extremely lucky shot.

In the end, a civilian weapons expert said, "I hope it was a lucky shot and we are not part of someone's test program. Being a live target is no fun.""

[SlavesandBulldozers]

12. The Weapon

is called a Kornet-E. a russian made shaped charge missile that injects a stream of plasma into a tank exploding the ammunition and killing the crew.

It's official.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/SciTech/iraq_kornetFAQ030327.html

[Superfly]

14. We have similar weapons

like SADARM and BAT...artillery projectiles that explode 10 meters above their targets, making something called an EFP (Explosively Formed Projectile) that penetrates the target.

On edit: I can't believe I misspelled artillery.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

17. yes we do

in fact, most of our weapons are this good. the thing that's surprising most of the military community is that the Iraqis have them. They had planned on the enemy having a shitload of RPG's, and perhaps some more sophisticated AT-shoulder weapons, but I dont think they anticipated encountering shoulder-fired weapons capable of defeating reactive armor combined with depleted uranium armomr.

in fact, from the way it sounds, this weapon is a lot like a du-sabot round from an M1, only shoulder launched.

[Superfly]

19. Correct me if I'm wrong...

but M-1's do not use reacitve armor. About the closest thing to reactive armor on an M1 are the blow-off hatches over the ammunition bustle rack.

[mmm]

22. what is reactive armor?

(I better check my bustle rack ((once I find out what a bustle rack is).)

[Superfly]

24. Reactive armor is armor that

dispells the energy of an explosion or projectile by causing an explosion of its own, away from the crew compartment.

The bustle rack is where the ammunition is stored on an M1.

[Code_Name_D]

26. The A1 stores amuniiton in a shelded anti-chamber.

Detonating the ammunition may not kill the crew, or cripile the tank, if I recall corectly.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

33. you might be right

i dont recall seeing the reactive armor units on m1's.

[mmm]

20. I thought you were pulling my leg - but it's true

I had no idea such a thing existed in shoulder-launch
size. Please take me off the tank crew!

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OldSoldier]

34. Shoulder-fired sabot rounds? Talk about a crazy gunner!

Sabot rounds require hypervelocity to work--about 6000 ft/second. And the little penetrators are very heavy for their size, so it takes a lot of gunpowder to make one go that fast. Maybe twenty or thirty pounds.

Now imagine plunking thirty pounds of gunpowder six inches from your ear and setting it off all at once. The first time you did it, it would pop your eardrums right out of your head.

Most if not all shoulder-fired AT rounds use some sort of rocketry for just this reason; a small "substainer" charge shoots the projectile out of the launcher to a safe distance from the gunner before the main motor ignites. This way your gunners don't all receive permanent hearing profiles when they come back from the range.

Once again: if they're using sabot rounds, they're firing them from old tank cannons mounted on something solid, like a tripod or a pickup.

[HereSince1628]

27. I thought this was interesting...I posted it days ago

when it was printed in Army Times and it fell like a rock. Now it has 26 responses?

Jeese, I guess I need a new mouthwash.... :(

[donsu]

30. LOL it's strange what flys or not at DU

[soothsayer]

32. I read yours!

But don't recall commenting. Of course, I hadn't seen the funny freeper thread yet either.

On edit: Wait! I think i wrote something about depleted DU and maybe they were using it against us much like the vietnamese would use our unexploded ordinance against us.

[markus]

29. They'll be rounding up every who sent pencils to Iraq

to help out the school kids, at the behest of the teacher/Guardsman.

Hah, giving aid and comfort to the enemy, were you.

[drfemoe]

36. aren't we humans

ingenious? :nuke: we are so smart we are going to destory each other and our entire planet. :cry:

[jmowreader]

37. It's "main battle tank" not just "battle tank"

Kind of the "full size car" of the tank world.

You've got light tanks, medium tanks and main battle tanks.

The United States, having retired the last of the M-551 Sheridans, now only has main battle tanks. The Russians rely on medium tanks and they at least used to have light tanks (PT-76s and MT-LBs, although the MT-LB is real versatile, you can use it for anything from carrying troops to pulling water tankers); pretty much the "infantry fighting vehicle" (a vehicle with a big gun and a passenger compartment) has replaced the light tank because it's more versatile.

[smallprint]

38. Is this the mysterious new weapon everyone is talking about?