I despise them, but I'm still impressed by Bush & Co. on Medicare

[dolstein]

It's probably a lousy bill. It could very well destroy Medicare as we know it. But I have to say that I'm very impressed by the ruthless efficiency of the Bush administration. Getting the AARP to endorse the measure was quite an accomplishment -- all the more so given that most rank-and-file members seem to oppose the bill. And getting the Congressional Republicans to sign on to what is still a large expansion of a federal entitlement program is no small feat either.

I'll say it again -- I hate Bush. I hate what he stands for. I hate his policies. But I cannot deny that he's proven to be a very effective president from the standpoint of getting Congress to go along with what he wants. And I wouldn't be surprised if large numbers of voters value effectiveness more than ideology.

[Beetwasher]

1. Bush Had NOTHING To Do With It

That's like crediting Ronald McDonald for McDonald Corps success.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

5. "That's like crediting Ronald McDonald for McDonald Corps success."

*lol* very good point!

[PAMod]

13. Heh heh - that is a classic characterization, mind if I use it?

Although, at least Ronald seems to know what he's doing, so it is unfair to him to mention him in the same breath.

[drfemoe]

22. so who did it?

dismantling medicare is part of the repup platform. Pop's a repup isn't he? What are you saying? The Res is NOT in CHARGE??
say it ain't so ..

[neuvocat]

2. Treachery is not to be admired.

Nor deceit, nor intimidation, nor bullying with all the power that was stolen from others.

[Mentalist]

3. I keep hearing this

It could very well destroy Medicare as we know it.

But I never hear anyone explain how. Anybody willing to enlighten me?

[redqueen]

6. It is opening the system to private insurers.

What was formerly a safe, guaranteed benefit, provided for all by the government for the common good -- now becomes part of the 'free market'.

This was done previously under Clinton, when they added ... what was it... medicare plus? Anyway it was a massive failure. Just like now, they had a sunset provision, and as soon as the government stopped subsidizing the premiums, the insurers backed out and cut all participants off.

Thankfully they had the option of returning to the medicare system. Who knows if that provision is in this bill.

From what it looks like, in 6 or 10 years, people who still 'don't get it' then will be in for a very rude awakening.

[Mentalist]

11. Still havent explained

how it is going to destroy medicare.

From the little I know about the privatization portion of the bill, in 7 years, seniors in 6 US cities will have the option to join a private plan. No one will be forced to.

I just don't see how in 6 cities, in 7 years, an option for some to try out an alternative will destroy medicare.

If thats the basis for the claims that this bill will destroy medicare I wholly reject the claim.

[redqueen]

12. That's completely mistaken.

It's not that simple.

Long story short, the plan will become too expensive and they'll axe it altogether (that's the plan anyway... starve the beast).

This paragraph has a Great quote from Rangel, kind of boils it down:

But New York Rep. Charles Rangel, the senior Democrat on the committee, said that while Republicans tout the prescription drug coverage, "the price of that benefit is the end of Medicare as we know it. If this bill becomes law, it will start a time bomb that will go off in 2010 and end the guarantee of affordable coverage under Medicare."



Here's a good resource which will save me from re-inventing the wheel.

on edit: here is an even better summary page, with different critiques of different aspects of the bill.

[RobinA]

21. This Happened

here in SE Pa. "Switch to an HMO, all you seniors. Cheaper, better benefits." Couple years later.... "Your HMO is out of the medicare business as of yesterday, better get some new coverage before that open heart surgery you have scheduled." I just laugh when I hear about market forces benefitting the coverage for seniors. Been there, done that, it was a failure.

[gasperc]

4. AARP to go along?

they put in a GOP mole to rubber stamp the thing, the membership is overwelmibgly opposed. besides the deductible is in the thousands that should convince many to get outraged. the GOP is protecting high drug prices with this bill, the DEM plan was forcing drug companies to submit to formularies and fixed and volume discounted prices.

[redqueen]

8. The president of AARP met with Bush.

Inside job.

If anyone saw the litigation guy from AARP on C-Span this morning, it was almost sad to see him trying to spin this as a 'good thing'.

He kept citing his poll, which said most members agreed with it. LOL

[StClone]

7. You made the point

That the AARP rank and file reject the MediCare Bill. The boys in the head office endorse it, which is also what I have come to understand.

I can make some assumptions why that is the case.

[Wwagsthedog]

9. bush + congress = massive conspiracy against 99% of Americans

n/t

[rucky]

10. The Fruit Rots From The Top...

or sumptin like that

[Yupster]

14. Agree dolstein

For a guy who got less votes, he really has been pretty efective in getting what he wants even when the country is not behind him.

Coincidently, I was reading the transcript of the 2000 Gore-Bush Jim Lehrer debate last night. Here's a ditty from it...

"BUSH: Well, here's what I've said: I've said, Jim, I've said that eight years ago they campaigned on prescription drugs for seniors, and four years ago they campaigned on getting prescription drugs for seniors, and now they're campaigning on getting prescription drugs for seniors. It seems like they can't get it done."

This sounds like a 30 second campaign ad for the upcoming campaign in the making. The banner at the bottom will be "promises made, promises kept."

Bush is certainly aggressive, and he's no caretaker.

[MoonRiver]

15. I think the AARP is a microcosm for our whole political system.

The majority don't agree with Washington's policies, but those viewpoints are totally ignored.

:argh:

[redqueen]

16. Don't forget to point out why.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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[MoonRiver]

18. You got it!

The scumbag bottom feeders have personal radar, guiding them toward the direction they should slither.
:puke:

[adriennel]

17. no, no, no

This is not "a large expansion of a federal entitlement program". In fact, it is the opposite! They want to privatize Medicare by getting seniors to buy into HMO plans instead. The bill also restricts the government from negotiating prices with pharmaceutical companies, which leaves us with some of the highest prescription drug prices in the world, prices destined to increase for ALL if this bill is passed.
IMO, this bill is putting more power in the hands of insurance and pharmaceutical companies and as a result, our health care costs will continue to skyrocket. It is not an addition to the Medicare program, it is a serious challenge to the structure of the program.

[adriennel]

19. and not all Republicans are for it

..someone posted this morning that Lott(?), McCain, and Snowe were opposed to the prescription drug bill.

[tom_paine]

20. By that standard so was Hitler, Stalin, and Ferdie Marcos.

Once you get rid of those pesky morals and stop giving a shit about Constitutions, ethics, and start playing like a Third World Junta, sure it gets easier, especially if most everyone else is playing the game as if all those things are still in force to some degree.

So what? My point is, given that the Busheviks are destroying the checks and balances of America in order to posess the corspe, shouldn't we expect them to be EFFECTIVE in getting what they want relative to people who were forced to work within the frameowkr of the Old Republic?

[yowzayowzayowza]

24. Bingo!

...difficult to respect effective goose-stepping into fascist oblivion.

[fshrink]

25. Yup

Democracy is messy, slow and erratic. But that's how you take your pleasure in living in a community.

[w4rma]

23. Yup. They're vicious bastards. (n/t)