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How can we really win against the "Genuis" of Karl Rove?

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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 07:42 PM
Original message
How can we really win against the "Genuis" of Karl Rove?
...of course we can, it's just a matter of knowing how his "Genuis" mind works.

according to this :

http://www.texasmonthly.com/mag/issues/2003-03-01/feature2-2.php?108407125


In 1981 Rove told Clements that he wanted to go out on his own and wanted him to be his first client. "I said, 'I am the age you were when you started Sedco , and I want to start a business,'" Rove recalls. "This took him aback. He is a gruff old guy. He said, 'Let me think about it,' and the next day he said, 'I am your first client.' And he put me in business." Rove, who had no capital of his own, pulled in $60,000 from friends in the Clements administration to start Rove and Company, a small direct-mail and political-list operation that would be at the center of his life for the next eighteen years. Within a month he was sending out a million and a half pieces of mail for Clements. Clements' defeat was a blow to the small start-up...

-snip-

AS GRUESOME AS THE REPUBLICANS' defeat was in 1982, it was not total. One seed of hope was a conservative Democratic congressman from College Station named Phil Gramm, who had won the all-important Democratic primary with Karl Rove's reluctant help. Rove had been ordered by Clements to help Gramm, who had co-sponsored Ronald Reagan's budget cuts over the objections of the leaders of his own party. Rove ran Gramm's direct-mail and phone-bank operations. After his victory in the general election, Gramm switched parties, then resigned and ran again in a special election. Rove spent New Year's Eve and New Year's Day in his office as he and Gramm signed 14,000 personalized letters explaining why Gramm was changing parties. Gramm won again, and when John Tower chose not to seek a fifth term in 1984, Rove helped elect Gramm to the U.S. Senate.

--snip--

Though he could not have known it at the time, Rove's timing had been perfect. Gramm was one of the early bellwethers of the political changes that were about to sweep across Texas. Counties like Collin and Denton, north of the Dallas­Fort Worth area, and Fort Bend and Montgomery, near Houston, were booming with an influx of corporate relocations from the North. Gramm's Senate victory had validated Rove's belief that the rural electorate, long considered a sure thing for Democrats, could be persuaded to vote Republican. His business took off in the mid-eighties, first with direct-mail clients and then with bigger jobs where he was the general consultant, responsible for all aspects of the campaign. He made no more than $30,000 a year for his first four years—less than the people who worked for him—but he met his payrolls. His business grew beyond Texas, aided by his national connections. He did mail for U.S. senators Orrin Hatch, of Utah, and Connie Mack, of Florida, and for Governor John Ashcroft, of Missouri. But he never stopped doing the smaller, less lucrative races that helped broaden the Republican base. Most important, Rove was the general consultant in Bill Clements' 1986 revenge victory over Mark White. "The Clements campaign was so focused and had such discipline," recalls consultant Mark McKinnon, who worked for White (and later became a media adviser for George W. Bush's presidential campaign). "We woke up every morning and got hammered. We were constantly on the defensive. We were constantly responding to something. We would wake up with Karl's fist in our face."

By the 1986 Clements campaign, Rove had become one of the top guns in his field...
After the Clements victory, in 1986, Rove became a full-fledged general consultant. With Gramm's party switch, Rove had caught the rural-Democrats-turning-Republican wave; now, in 1988, he would catch the tort-reform wave. At that time the Texas Supreme Court consisted of nine Democratic judges, most of whom favored plaintiffs. Their ethics as a group had come under scrutiny in a 1987 60 Minutes report called "Justice for Sale?" Two judges had been disciplined by a state judicial watchdog commission. Sensing the opportunity, Rove went to work in 1988 for Tom Phillips, a former Houston district judge who had been appointed chief justice by Clements earlier that year. Rove ran...

--snip--
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. here's the link
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. Not a genius......
Herr Goebbels did all his groundwork for him.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. Rove's genius is that BushInc. controls most of the media.
So all his major fuckups don't get airtime, and all the Democrats who have the goods on BushInc. will get ignored or scorned.
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poskonig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. Rove is overrated.
These guys made plenty of mistakes in the 2000 election and afterwards. I remember when the DUI story broke. Bush was placed in front of a brick wall and responded to many reporters, at night of all times. It made him look like he was guilty and Gore picked up a few points before the election.

Very, very sloppy, methinks.

Much of the "Rove fear" around here is plainly liberal insecurity and lack of confidence.
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. I don't "fear"
Rove, I watched him manipulate two major elections--Texas govenor and President. "Insecurity" has NOTHING to do with it...but facts do.


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AmericanDem Donating Member (521 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. Know first that Rove is NO genius!
He is a despicable, manipulating human being. Do you expect anything else from the grandson of a high ranking Nazi?
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
6. Simple. Develop issue that resonate with Joe & Jane Average.
Lot of the stuff that sends us swooning, just doesn't play in Peoria.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. yeah, like kicking Saddam's butt
note Gephardt's lead in Iowa.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. If our Democratic leaders don't believe that BushCo will stoop to anything
to get what they want, we won't win. To make my Nazi analogy again, the Nazis and Hitler wouldn't have gotten anywhere if any of the leaders of the free world would have taken a hard look at what they were doing as contrary to what they were sayng. This little empire would have gone nowhere.

But self interest allowed the British, French and America to take Hitler at his word and give into his demands. The same thing is happening today with BushCo and if our fearless Democratic leaders don't start taking a hardline at everything they attempt to do, they will win. Karl isn't that intelligent, but he is that devious, just like Hitler.
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. some of the most brilliant minds
are evil--manson comes to mind.
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. Rove thought the Iraq war would lock-up Bush's re-election
I think Idiot would be a more accurate term.
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nn2004 Donating Member (172 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. Rove is a chump
We have the smartest in the world...Bill Clinton and Hillary to carry our flag. They are working on it now as we speak an I trust they will prevail and show Rove that the American people will reject the current norm.

Why do we worry so much with the brain power we hold in people like Bill, Hillary and the rest of the Democrats on our side? 2004 is going to be a landslide for Democrats since the Repubs have draged America down to the level that it is.
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. Find our own
Lee Attwater. Or at least sit back and think about how he would attack the repugs, then act accordingly. It's always nice to say we've taken the high road. But this is politics, a game not for the squeemish. Either we want chimpy out or we don't. If there were a way to turn off enough of chimpy's core supporters I'd be all for it. By any means necessary, I always say.
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gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. Big difference between "genius" and total lack of integrity, mixed with
sociopathic tendencies. That's all it takes to do what Rove does. We just haven't been willing to stoop to his level. If we go there, what does that make us? Sometimes I get riled up and am ready to fight as dirty as he does. But then we've stooped, we've become just like the BFEE.

We need to learn how to fight it and hit it hard, every time he pulls his shit. Hit back, every time, hard. But do not become like Rove.

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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. You don't need to lower yourself in your actions
to fight them, but you must be aware of the fact that they don't play by the same rules we do, so we can't expect them to be honorable. You can't let them get away with lies or actions because you think they are going to do what they said they would do because they won't.

As long as our leadership is aware of these facts, then they should block and interfere in anything they propose to do. The Iraq War should never have gotten the approval of Congress because there were no facts to support it. Our leadership has to get tough, but they don't have to jump into the sewer with them.
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. the media. the media. the media. (broken record)
It's not Rove who's our biggest problem, it's the media.

Clark or Dean could literally walk on water and heal the blind and it wouldn't get reported.

Bush could fuck a goat on the 50 yard line of the super bowl and it wouldn't get reported.

That's the BIGGEST problem in America today.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Yes, and who controls the media, the same people
who give big contributions to the politicians and the think tanks that develop all these schemes.
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
18. Kick
:kick:
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