is the United States "backwards" ?

[JI7]

i think in comparison to europe and canada, we are backwards, especially on issues like gay rights, abortion rights, separation of church and state. i believe these issues hurt us in many elections since many americans are still very much opposed to gay rights, especially marriage (which accounts for many democratic politicians saying they oppose it even if they really don't),i don't think they are very supportive of abortion rights and separation of church and state also. some other issues are abortion rights,acceptance of non monotheistic religions and atheists or agnostics (even jews and muslims still get crap over their religion). the odd thing is that many who always complain about the muslim nations being backwards take the above positions.

even on economic issues like labor rights i don't like the attitude of some people who complain about those who strike. i have a friend who said she doesn't like them and whenever she sees them she feels like telling them to get a job.

[mmonk]

1. In some ways yes

with its de-emphasis on science and its increasing religious radicalism.

[LittleApple81]

2. Yes. and we are become more so. We are listening too much

to the "religious ultra-right" and letting them control our policies, laws, and attitudes. We are supposed to EVOLVE as human beings. OOOPs, the religious fanatics do not believe in evolution of any kind, do they?

[JI7]

4. that's the frightening thing

it seems it's becomeing MORE SO. i saw a poll on cnn i think which said people in support of gay rights decreased from a few months ago and they said this might have been because of the supreme court sodomy case. i'm thinking while all this is going on that even if you personally feel homosexuality if wrong how can you still support such a law ? why are people so hateful like that ? they would be willing to put consensual adults engaged in private consensual sexual act into prison just because they don't think it's "right" for two people of the same sex to do it, even though they are consenting adults.

[La_Serpiente]

6. I don't think

Americans are as sexually mature as Europeans. I think that is why the rate of support for gay rights has been decreasing. People are afraid to tackle issues of maturity and sexuality even though they have sex a lot themselves.

[DBoon]

14. No, they apparently believe in de-evolution

And we are slowly slipping backwards as a result.

Are we not men?

[Castilleja]

33. I think we are stuck...

on the road to evolution as human beings. Other countries have passed us, unafraid to move on down the road.

[Benhurst]

3. Is the pope Catholic? Do Bears go in the woods? n/t

[larryepke]

5. We're certainly behind...

in health care. Many so called "third world" countries have better health care for their citizens. Where else do the elderly routinely go broke in their last years of life when they become ill?

[Jacobin]

7. Just retreating from the Renaissance

Neo-cons long for the Dark Ages and are working non-stop to return to those days of yore.

[DBoon]

15. Exactly - repudiate the Enlightenment

And you do in fact get the dark ages.

Part of their basic philosophy.

Liberty? Equality? Fraternity?

No what we have is obedience, ignorance, and warfare

[Dead_Parrot]

8. Sort of...

...which is slightly ironic, since was the US in the '60s and '70s that gave everyone else pause for thought as to how to tackle these 'new' problems. The US seems to have gone from being gently progressive to insanely conservative, all in the last decade. OK, shrub is at the forefront, but it wasn't him it would be someone else rubbing up the right into a socio-religious frenzy...

Meanwhile, I saw in another thread that the Queen - Head of the Anglican Church of England - might make an anouncement about gay 'marriages'.

Go figure :shrug:

[jsw_81]

9. You bet we're backwards

Just look at the political battles we have over issues like gay rights, women's rights, separation of church and state, and gun safety. In practically all other civilized countries virtually EVERYONE (including the "conservatives") is pro-choice, pro-gay rights, and a supporter of church/state separation and gun safety legislation. Here in the states, however, we have a huge segment of the population that is openly hostile to such views and we even have tens of millions of citizens who are actively anti-science (e.g. creationists). Many of these idiots are even proud of their ignorance and highly suspicious of anyone with a college education. And sadly, our political leaders have to pander to these clowns in order to have a chance at winning an election. Do you think anyone could really be elected president if he/she attacked the fundies or supported gay marriage? No way. They'd get trounced. In Britain/France/Canada/Germany/Holland the opposite would be true. Someone like Bush wouldn't even get elected to the city council in those nations.

So we may be the richest and strongest nation on earth, but we're still a long ways away from being fully civilized. Beating Bush next year would be a huge step on the road to becoming fully civilized, but if we should lose...

:scared:

[niyad]

13. so very, very true. when I talk to my friends in europe, they remain

astounded at just how reactionary this country seems to be, and how appallingly ignorant and provincial most of its citizens are.

one has to look at the educational system. it is not possible that so many people could be ignorant by accident. but, as we all know, it is much easier to control an ignorant populace than an informed and intelligent one.

[Liberal Veteran]

10. Provincial would be the word I would choose.....

We are a people of limited outlook for the most part and do not understand the world beyond our own borders and often not beyond the scope of our region within those borders.

[pippin]

11. definitely

and have become more so in the last few years. Backwardness is related to ignorance. People in this country on the whole have become less informed (blame the media for this) more consumer oriented and (buing bigger cars, bigger homes, more this and that) more hassled by everyday life.

In England, working class people know a lot more about their hsitory, current affairs and what's going on in the US. Most Americans know next to nothing about the history or politics of this country much less that of other nations. In the UK people can name US senators and events that are going on here. I doubt most Americans--even fairly well educated ones--are able to name a single British MP. When it comes to US foreign affairs my guess is that Americans find it easier to spout the jingoisms of the adminsitration or the clergy rather than know the facts. Have we become more ignorant? yes, and sad to say often proud of it! :-(

[Muddleoftheroad]

17. Blame the educational system

If we as a society have a major gap in our education, then who else do we blame?

I will say that a British MP does not compare to a U.S. senator in power or influence, so it's not exactly a fair comparison.

[JI7]

32. yeah

i have talked to foreigners who know many things about our politics. and they aren't professors or any other expert or do work related to the united states. they are just regular people. and they know names of specific congress members, especially senators, they k now just about all major executive figures which most americans don't know.

[skippysmom]

12. we are INCREDIBLY backwards

particularly when it comes to taking care of our citizens. Almost every industrialized nation has universal health care, paid parental leaves, etc. Only we would leave those things up to the market. Everyone for himself, that seems to be our philosophy.

Hell, IRAQ had universal health care.

[Ripley]

16. Yes. While Americans laugh at Europeans fear of GMO...

making fun of their term "Frankenfood," watch as our cancer rates and other major illnesses and disorders increase. Americans are incredibly ignorant about what they put into their bodies, and have no concern for what is happening in the food chain. They want to leave it up to "science" (really just corporate pigs like Monsanto) to do whatever they think is best with our wheat fields. Funny, how Americans want to believe only certain science. Monsanto says the bread is safe! Hooray! 90% of the world scientists say global warming is ocurring rapidly, apparently in response to human activity..Boo!!

Americans desire quantity over quality and cheapness over safety.

[jsw_81]

19. Global warming?

That's a myth! Rush Limbaugh done told me so. </murkan>

[Ripley]

21. Hope you don't have a house on the beach friend!

I expect in my lifetime to see Miami, New York and other major coastal cities to become partially submerged.

[AG78]

18. Yes...

But we're an overly complicated and divisive society, so it's not a shock.

We need unemployment for the system to work.

We need to make everything in existence, including existence itself, a commodity.

We need a two party system where it's really one party, because politicians are addicted to the power that the vote gives them.

We need to keep normal people divided, because if they ever came together, they would make real changes.

We need to keep people in fear on a variety of topics, because if they are, they'll give money and support to whatever vehicle will keep them safe.

But it all depends on how far forward the country as a whole went in a couple hundred years.

[newyawker99]

22. Hi AG78!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[AG78]

23. Thank you kindly

Just found this place this week.

[Snellius]

20. Unlike the U.S., Europe overthrew its old class system.

But it took 2 incredibly destructive world wars. Despite all the patriotic hymns to the "land of the free", the United States is still based on a culture of privilege and slavery.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. I believe that our retrograde attitudes

are deliberately induced.

People are confused and frightened about what's happening in the world, and they want something to cling to. Since our culture has long valued practical skills over intellectualism ("I don't hold much by book l'arnin'.'"), when people see economic disruption and social changes, they don't know how to analyze them, so they're as frightened as a puppy who sees a vacuum cleaner in operation for the first time.

Part of the provincialism comes from the early nineteenth century, which was the last time America received large percentages of immigrants. The people who were already here were horrified at all those (gasp!) Irish, Jews, Germans, Eastern Europeans, Italians, Scandinavians, and Greeks and were certain that they would never assimilate. For that reason, the public schools came down heavily on immigrant children and taught them to be ashamed of their ancestral languages and cultures. Not knowing anything about the world became a perverse virtue in the eyes of many, and these attitudes persisted.

As an example of how much these attitudes persisted, there was a movement during my college years (1968-1972) to eliminate my school's foreign language requirement. It was led by a young man who said that he had "dreaded the prospect of learning a foreign language all his life." Since he came from a small rural high school that probably didn't even offer a foreign language, so you have to wonder where he got this attitude, if not from home.

The wingnuts know that the masses are frightened and ignorant, so they preach "traditional values," and "patriotism," which feel safe and familiar, even though they were never exactly as the wingnuts portray them. At the same time, they try to starve the schools and keep the curriculum dumbed down (as in the current attempt to enforce a sanitized version of American history in the Minnesota public schools) so that the masses never learn better.

I also strongly suspect that a thorough investigation of the amazing proliferation of fundamentalist churches and schools would reveal financing by the old familiar right-wing foundations.

You're right about comparisons with other countries. The one I know best is Japan, of course, and even though Japan's government is usually referred to as "conservative," it still has rudimentary national health care, a school system that teaches 99% of the population the world's most difficult writing system, and a superb public transportation exceeding even those found in Europe. It is currently looking to the future, thinking seriously about how to deal with its aging population and environmental issues.

While there are certainly stupid people in Japan (somebody has to be watching those idiotic talk shows), the level of general knowledge seems higher than in the States, and the news media cover the world outside the country better than U.S., media do. Science and math education, as well as music and art education, are very rigorous. Last year, some friends asked me to explain what fundamentalism was, and I happened to mention that fundamentalists don't believe in evolution. My friends couldn't believe it. How could anyone not believe in evolution? None of these people were scientists, by the way.

So yes, I find Americans to be, for the most part, kind-hearted and well-meaning, but ignorant, largely due to having been taught in many subtle ways that ignorance is good.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. Dupe

:-(

[theboss]

26. I get scared when a country is on "the same page"

Everytime someone tells me that "virtually everyone" someplace believes in something, I reach for a gun.

One of the strengths of the US is that we don't agree on anything. And that is a good thing, I think.

I also wonder if the people who tell me how smart the Brits are or how caring the Canadians are about their fellow man have ever:

A. Been to the slums in Manchester or
B. Been to a hockey game in Thunder Bay.

[YNGW]

27. comment

We're ahead in some ways, behind in others. Things have a way of evening themselves out.

:donut:

ypada

[YNGW]

28. comment

Double post. Sorry. I'm learning.

:silly:

yicstlfm

[skibunny4dean]

29. I'm learning too...

But I think in the case of "are we behind the rest of the world", I think that some Americans are the stupidest people in the world in certain issues. How can people not see things our way? Are they neanderthals?

[YNGW]

30. skibunny4dean

Thanks for the backup.

Nice pic, Breezy!! Yousa! Yousa! Yousa!

:loveya: :thumbsup: :hi: ;-) :loveya: :loveya: :loveya:

iwfybo

[MrPrax]

31. A small start for sure

The US is so backward that people who post reflective pieces on 'how backward the US is' mention 'we are backwards, especially on issues like gay rights, abortion rights, separation of church and state.'

Why bother with half federal rev. going to the military, capital punishment, longer work weeks, lack of universal healthcare, incarceration, the 'freedom' to buy military grade weapons, etc etc

I tend to feel that the problem was the Cold War? The US has spent much of that time convincing itself of it's 'greatness' in comparison to a...well..totalitarian craphole that it has done little to improve itself.

Sorta like running for President of the World using a 'negative' campaign and lots of 'smearing'.