Did anyone see the Bush IQ debunking on CSPAN this morning?

[screembloodymurder]

Several days ago, a caller mentioned that Bush had an IQ of 91. Today a whole segment was dedicated to that call and misinformation and conspiracy theories found on the net. At first, I was pissed because I've never seen CSPAN go after a caller (they even replayed the call). I've heard countless right-wing lunatics' lies go unchallenged, and here's this well-meaning, older lady getting bashed for misrepresenting Bush's IQ by a few measly points.

Then I realized, Brian felt compelled to set the record straight less the viewers actually think Bush is a moron. If he acts like a moron, talks like a moron, walks like a moron; I don't need no stinking IQ test to tell me he's a moron. So what do you think?

[elperromagico]

1. He apparently has an IQ somewhere in the 120s,

or at least that's what his SAT scores would indicate.

To me, it's not so much that he's stupid, it's more that he's intellectually lazy.

[enki23]

6. what were his SAT scores?

the 120 number seems pretty suspect, as that's pretty high for modern IQ test numbers for adults.

[_Jumper_]

11. I believe he scored a 1230

n/t

[knight_of_the_star]

27. I read in Newsweek

That he got something like a 1203. I went through public schooling, did no SAT prep and had to work late the night before and got a 1230, thank you very much. I'm willing to bet Bush got his 1203 with his 4 years+ of private schooling, SAT prep courses I couldn't even DREAM of affording, and he likely got to sleep very early the night before. His score was probably propped up by cash. Most people on here don't have that luxury.

[trogdor]

41. The average score at Andover was 1370.

That would put Dumbya in about the 30th percentile in his farking graduating class. Maybe.

SAT scores are affected by more than your native intelligence.

[elperromagico]

15. To my knowledge, he hasn't taken an IQ test

The 91 IQ figure is an urban legend, spread around in e-mails a couple of years ago.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bliq-bush.htm

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.htm

Bush's SAT scores were
Verbal: 566
Math: 640

The 120s estimate is based on those SAT scores (which were good but not stellar considering his educational background). An IQ in the 120s is essentially average.

As I said, I don't think he's an outright idiot so much as he's just mentally lazy.

[MoonRiver]

17. No, an IQ in the 120's is considered Superior.

Average IQs range from 90 to 109. High Average is 110-119. Superior is 120-129. Very Superior is 130 and up.

[elperromagico]

20. Self-delete

[MoonRiver]

21. The most commonly used IQ tests have produced those values, not me!

It's based on statistical analysis. The test authors administered the instruments to millions of people, and produced those numbers. That's the only way the tests have any validity.

[CSI Willows]

56. then we can't be saying Bush has an IQ of 120

my IQ is 140.....Bush, he ain't the sharpest tool in the shed so I highly doubt that his is around 120.

[elperromagico]

57. And of course, there is the possibility of dyslexia

His brother Neil is dyslexic, isn't he? George H. W. Bush was responsible for some of the most amusing verbal gaffes of the early 90s. Is George H. W. dyslexic as well?

I suspect that there is a strain of dyslexia within the Bush family that has evidenced itself in at least three members of the family (and quite possibly more).

Dubya's general distaste and lack of aptitude for reading (i.e. his insistence that staffers summarize briefing reports for him), coupled with his mangled speech patterns suggest dyslexia.

18. those aren't that high

this actually supposed to be a reply to (1)

,,, considering Bush's background and that the SAT is biased (particularly back when he would have taken it) in a way that means white males tend to score higher on it.

[Julien Sorel]

58. That verbal score is a red flag.

Math scores can be driven up by education, but verbal scores, in my experience, are much more indicative of intellectual prowess. It takes years and years of reading and reasoning, or else a genuinely superior native intellect, to develop good language skills; math, however, as it is presented on the SATs, is simply a question of classroom education. No wonder he's so damn dumb. I think he's natively of average intelligence or so, simultaneously propped up by all the priveleges and experiences that come from being born into a wealthy, influential family, and held back by being a mentally lazy fuck.

[Warpy]

9. SAT scores that high

...from kids in public school indicate a reasonably high IQ. SAT scores that LOW form prep school prepared students indicate normal intelligence, at best. There's a reason the scions of the plutocrats all go to prep school, and it's not merely to avoid contaminating their offspring by exposing them to the working class. Prep schools offer small classes and a great deal of individual instruction, all dedicated to having lesser generations assume the reins of leadership from their forebears when it's time.

Public schools are geared to the golden mean, which means kids with higher IQs are pretty much left to fend for themselves in pursuing enriched course work. Therefore, like anything else, when looking at things like SAT scores, it's wise to consider the source.

[ozone_man]

43. I agree totally.

Don't use SAT scores, especially not from a prep school, to measure intelligence. Even IQ tests do not properly account for differences in societal and ethnic backgrounds. They're made for WASPs.

[MoonRiver]

10. I seriously doubt it was * who took 'his' SAT.

If a person has enough money finding a look alike stand-in smartypants wouldn't be difficult.

Besides, all anybody has to do is listen to the moron speak spontaneously to recognize he's really stupid. With all his family privilege and educational opportunities he can't string together a coherent sentence, and hasn't a clue about anything other than what is spoon fed him by his handlers. I'm convinced there isn't one bright filament in that dim bulb. Yep, an IQ of 91, along with a serious learning disability, seems about right.

[Yupster]

32. Bush is no Ted Kennedy

Teddy's the one who got expelled for hiring another student to take his Spanish test for him.

Abd another thing -- a friend who's in college says he can now take many of his tests for his regular college classes in his dorm room on-line. He says this is routing. If this is true, how can the teacher have any confidence that the correct student is the one taking the test? This seems nuts to me. You'd at least want the students in some kind of controlled testing center so you know who's taking the test. Anyone know if this is really true?

[fshrink]

39. SAT scores and IQ scores are very different things.

They correlate weakly, which doesn't mean much either. Plus IQ scores (on the most common test: WAIS) have a confidence band of 15 points (at 95% confidence level). We'll never know what his IQ is, and even if we did it wouldn't mean much. He might be a human residue, he still deserves the same respect as any human being: not to be brought down to a number, the validity of which is highly questionable anyway.

[elperromagico]

47. I agree, of course

I'm just repeating the figure I've been told in the past.

[prolesunited]

2. Funny, Brian NEVER

seems compelled to set the record straight when his friends call in and tell lies about Dems. Damn liberal media! :eyes:

[screembloodymurder]

4. Not enough time to correct Republican lies.

He'd have to correct every caller.

[screembloodymurder]

5. Not enough time to correct Republican lies.

He'd have to correct every caller.

[neuvocat]

3. The fact that they're trying to defend Bush over this

gives credence to the caller's assertion to begin with.

[opihimoimoi]

8. He is the LOLO of the Century, er, make that ALL MANKIND

I will make a thread of this.

[Jack Rabbit]

7. Here's the scoop from Snopes

From snopes.com

Presidential IQ

Claim: According to a study by the Lovenstein Institute, President Bush has the lowest IQ of all presidents of past 50 years.
Status: False.

Origins: No, this isn't a real news report, nor does it describe a real study. There isn't a "Lovenstein Institute" in Scranton, Pennsylvania (or anywhere else in the USA), nor do any of the people quoted in the story exist, because this is just another spoof that was taken too seriously.
The piece is simply a political jibe, made obvious by its ranking all the Democratic presidents of the last several decades as having high (even exceptionally high) IQs -- note that Bill Clinton's IQ is listed as being exactly twice George W. Bush's -- while ranking all the Republican presidents from the same time frame as average to moderate in intelligence, with the current president and his father assigned below-average figures placing them at the very bottom of the list. (President Nixon is the sole exception, presumably because his reputation is still so tarnished that not even a high IQ measurement can yet redeem him in the court of public opinion.)

Read more.

Sorry, everybody.

[Skittles]

19. HEY - this CLAIM is debunked

not the fact that Dubya IS INDEED A MORON and his IQ could very well be 91 - or LESS

[Brucey]

12. It's like Nixon saying he's not a crook.

The fact that the issue is brought up is enough. He may have a passable IQ (knowledge of words and puzzles), but he is far from being a thinker. He's written more books than he's read (1). On C-SPAN the other day the moderator said he was smart because in his speech he named John Locke. Well, we all know that someone else wrote the speech and he's just reading it. There are books full of the dumb things he has said when he is speaking on his own. He might not be officially mentally retarded, but he is nowhere near a high-IQ person or a deep thinker in any way. Perhaps that's why average people like him so much - he is just like them.

[glarius]

13. Did you see his performance in Britain?....I've seen him here in Canada

in live settings with other world leaders, where he looked like a fish out of water...Just like he seemed with Blair....He looks like it's all he can do to walk across a room, he's so tied up in knots of indecision and incomprehension....If it wasn't for his "people" who surround and protect him he would probably faint with the lack of knowledge of what he should say or do....

[MoonRiver]

14. * could end all this debate by just taking an IQ test, then publishing

its results. :D

[elperromagico]

16. I think it should be noted

that the same source which produced the 91 IQ figure also gave Nixon an IQ of 155.

Here are the alleged IQ rankings of the last 12 presidents:

147 .. Franklin D. Roosevelt (D)
132 .. Harry Truman (D)
122 .. Dwight D. Eisenhower (R)
174 .. John F. Kennedy (D)
126 .. Lyndon B. Johnson (D)
155 .. Richard M. Nixon (R)
121 .. Gerald Ford (R)
175 .. James E. Carter (D)
105 .. Ronald Reagan (R)
098 .. George HW Bush (R)
182 .. William J. Clinton (D)
091 .. George W. Bush (R)

(http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.htm)

[Catherine Vincent]

51. My baby Clinton has the highest score of them all!

:loveya:

[elperromagico]

55. That IQ figure might be close to accurate

n/t

[karlschneider]

22. I say he is not a moron, but is an idiot. (There is a subtle distinction

in today's American English, they are no longer essentially synonyms.)

It is somewhat analogous to the distinction between "ignorant" and "stupid."

That being said, there is evidence that his "intellect" embraces some of each of those four categories.

More than anything else, however, he is clearly a lout with some mental issues having little or nothing to do with any of them.

:eyes:

[TacticalPeek]

23. Now if Brian and c-span would just do a segment to set the record

straight about that pesky AWOL rumor.

Something about a reward being offered to any Alabama Guradsman who could say that they served in the Alabama Guard with Shrub? Something about scrubbing his military records? Grounded from flying for refusing orders to take medical exams after they began including drug tests?

C-span viewers want to know.

[karlschneider]

24. I say he is not a moron, but is an idiot. (There is a subtle distinction

in today's American English, they are no longer essentially synonyms.)

It is somewhat analogous to the distinction between "ignorant" and "stupid."

That being said, there is evidence that his "intellect" embraces some of each of those four categories.

More than anything else, however, he is clearly a lout with some mental issues having little or nothing to do with any of them.

:eyes:

[TacticalPeek]

25. Now if Brian and c-span would just do a segment to set the record

straight about that pesky AWOL rumor.

Something about a reward being offered to any Alabama Guradsman who could say that they served in the Alabama Guard with Shrub? Something about scrubbing his military records? Grounded from flying for refusing orders to take medical exams after they began including drug tests?

C-span viewers want to know.

[karlschneider]

26. I say he is not a moron, but is an idiot. (There is a subtle distinction

in today's American English, they are no longer essentially synonyms.)

It is somewhat analogous to the distinction between "ignorant" and "stupid."

That being said, there is evidence that his "intellect" embraces some of each of those four categories.

More than anything else, however, he is clearly a lout with some mental issues having little or nothing to do with any of them.

:eyes:

[TacticalPeek]

28. Now if Brian and c-span would just do a segment to set the record

straight about that pesky AWOL rumor.

Something about a reward being offered to any Alabama Guradsman who could say that they served in the Alabama Guard with Shrub? Something about scrubbing his military records? Grounded from flying for refusing orders to take medical exams after they began including drug tests?

C-span viewers want to know.

[TacticalPeek]

29. Now if Brian and c-span would just do a segment to set the record

straight about that pesky AWOL rumor.

Something about a reward being offered to any Alabama Guradsman who could say that they served in the Alabama Guard with Shrub? Something about scrubbing his military records? Grounded from flying for refusing orders to take medical exams after they began including drug tests?

C-span viewers want to know.

[JHB]

31. Tonight on "Its the Mind"....

...we examine the phenomenon of Deja vu, that strange feeling you sometimes get that we've lived through something before, that what is happening now has already happened...

[elperromagico]

48. LOL

Python reference, very good, very good.

[Barbara917]

30. Is this evidence of low IQ, idiocy, stupidity, chauvinism?

Does it matter whether the behavior depicted here is a result of low IQ or not?

[TacticalPeek]

33. His way to meet girls that don't attend his family reunion.

[robbedvoter]

61. Barbara: I was looking for that pic! (Letterman) Thanks!

[ClintonTyree]

34. One step above.................

plant life. Very close though, very close.

[mmonk]

35. I have too much difficulty

putting that name and intelligence in the same sentence. Its too difficult.

[Basurero]

36. 91 seems a bit high.

Could they have meant 9 (nine)? I could understand that, going by what he's done in office.

[newyawker99]

42. Hi Basurero!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

37. You forgot the category: IQ less than that of the average houseplant.

[scarletlib]

38. Years of alcohol abuse and heaven knows what other drugs

would undoubtedly have reduced his I.Q. by the simple destruction of brain cells.

[elperromagico]

49. As would lack of intellectual stimulation n/t

[devinsgram]

40. Mine is 116 and I know I'm a lot smarter then

he is. My dog is smarter. My cats are smarter. I've seen a bag of hammers smarter.

[screembloodymurder]

60. O' Brother

a bag of hammers.

[susu369]

44. The program just reinforced that Snopes is quite pro-Bush

Barbara Mikkelson bragged about her research regarding the IQ's and then admitted she did not know what Clinton's IQ was.

Hello? Researcher?

[Terwilliger]

45. IQ of 666 but he's dyslexic?

sounds like a joke Bush might attempt

[MrPrax]

46. Where's dumb as a bag of hammers?

or Not the sharpest knife in the drawer?

"Potatos are smrter"
-Dan Quayle

[quaker bill]

50. That would be Potatoes

[quaker bill]

52. IQ does not relate to sensibility

I have known some fripping genius lunatics. PhD's that I would not trust to care for my dog.

On the other hand, I would want to see the test results before I would believe Bush has an IQ of 120. 100 to 110 maybe. The man should have been a plumber.

Of course 1200 on the SAT is not all that high for President of the United States.

I did substantially better than that hungover.

[MoonRiver]

54. You mean: "PotatoEs are smarter"

:D

[grasswire]

53. outrageous

In all the days I've watched Washington Journal I've never seen a call refuted. A close question might be asked, but never anything like what Lamb has done.

Rove must have leaned on Lamb.

I'd call and get mad, but I have to watch the replay. 4 a.m. is just too early for me.

[radfringe]

59. depends on how you define "stupid"

Oxford dictionary aside - this is how I define stupidity vs ignorance

Ignorance is when you don't know something because of a lack of knowledge/experience
example: Don't know how to re-wire a house because you've never been taught

Stupidity is when you know better but go ahead and do it anyways
example: You know driving intoxicated is dangerous but you slam down severl drinks and get behind the wheel anyways

Baghdad Bush KNOWS better but goes ahead anyways = STUPIDITY

it has nothing to do with IQ scores or intuitive abilities - it has to do with common sense