Bible illiterate...need some help please...Homosexuality as abomination

[masmdu]

I recall somebody here at DU posting a list of things from the Bible that are considered abominations to God as a way of showing how useless it is to make such a claim with regards to homosexuality.

Anybody have that list/link?

The only one I (mis)remember was about how it is an abomination to wear a garment made of mixed fibers and the author therefore suggests that those adhearing to the "abomination" approach to life should avoid poly/cotton blends. (lol)

TIA

[Alenne]

1. Here is a link to Leviticus

http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/Bible/Leviticus.html


I believe what you are looking for is in there somewhere.

[HFishbine]

16. You should have paid attention in Sunday school

http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=LEV+19&language=english&version=NIV-UK&showfn=on&showxref=on

Here are some of the things the bible condemns in Leviticus:

- man lying with man as he does with a woman (punishment by death)
- committing adultery (punishment by death)
- beastiality (punishment by death)
- having sex during a woman's period
- shaving your sideburns
- eating pork
- murder (punishment by death)
- bowing down before carved stones (Paging Roy Moore)
- charging interest on loans
- making a profit on the sale of food
- failing to pay wages every day.
- planting a field with more than one kind of seed
- wearing clothing of more than one kind of fibre
- getting a tattoo
- cursing God (punishment by death)
- prostitution (punishment by death if you are the daughter of a priest)
- eating leavened bread during Passover
- failing to observe the Sabbath
- ill-treatment of foriegners
- cursing one's mother or father (punishment by death)
- consulting mediums (like John Edwards, the "psychic," not the candidate -- punishment by death)

(There are also extensive instructions for dealing with mildew in Leviticus.)

A Fishbine Recommendation: For a very insightful look into the issue of the Bible and homosexuality, visit: http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm (scroll down to topics.)

[calimary]

19. Consulting mediums - well, bye-bye Nancy Reagan then!

[IggleDoer]

27. So if eating pork is so bad. ...

Why is ham the traditional meal for Easter and X-Mas? Kinda' insulting to their religious tenants, isn't it. Or after the meal do X-tians lay with men just to even things up.

[Padraig18]

2. Check Leviticus.

It's full of such things.

[stopbush]

3. Abominations in the Bible

The perspective that's lost is that - according to The Bible - homosexuality is just one of MANY abominations in the eyes of the Judeo God. It's right up there with women wearing men's clothing (pants suits, anyone?) and bringing a whore, a sodomite or a dog to church with you. I guess in the eyes of The Lord, women in pants suits attending church with their dogs are twice as bad as them dern homosexuals!!

Check out this link to The Skeptic's Annotated Bible:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm

[papau]

4. "abomination" in the Old Testament is used for many food/dress rules

Jesus was a Jew who said the Old Testament was the word of God and should guide our lives, but that his coming was the beginning of a new era where we should realize that all the rules in the Old Testament can be summarized as Love thy GOD, and Love thy neighbor as you do yourself.

So the sect of Jews that followed Jesus, latter called Christian, felt that rules not obviously relating to the above two rules, were perhaps misinterpretations by humans of the message from God. So Christians ate ham (an "abomination") and shell fish, and so on. It did not mean that Christians had to get hip and start doing/violating "abominations" - you did not have to try gay sex - but since these "abominations" did not affect your or your neighbor's ability to "Love thy GOD, and Love thy neighbor as you do yourself", they really did not affect your religion.

[oxymoron]

6. And may God help you if you eat shellfish. (nt)

[masmdu]

5. Thanks but I'm loooking specifically for that list....remembered another

from the list...you shouldnt eat meat and dairy together....therefore no cheeseburgers

[Bozola]

7. For a good biblical laugh....

please refer to the sins of Onan.

[NORML Christian]

8. Don't just read Leviticus................

Ro 1:13
Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you,
(but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other
Gentiles.
Ro 1:14
I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
Ro 1:15
So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
Ro 1:16
¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to
every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Ro 1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just
shall live by faith.
Ro 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of
men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Ro 1:19
¶ Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto
them.
Ro 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being
understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are
without excuse:
Ro 1:21
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but
became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Ro 1:22
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Ro 1:23
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,
and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Ro 1:24
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to
dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Ro 1:25
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than
the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Ro 1:26
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the
natural use into that which is against nature:
Ro 1:27
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one
toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves
that recompence of their error which was meet.
Ro 1:28
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a
reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Ro 1:29
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness;
full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Ro 1:30
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to
parents,
Ro 1:31
Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Ro 1:32
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death,
not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

The new covenant did not do awa with homosexuality as an abomination. See verses 26 & 27.

[Arianrhod]

22. The writings of Paul are not the "new covenant".

The New Covenant consists of the sacrament (Luke 22:20), which is a remembrance of the sacrifice of the cross (1 Cor 11:23-26).

Paul admits in Corinthians that sometimes he doesn't really know what God wants, and is merely giving his own personal opinion (1 Cor 7:12,25). So to claim that his distaste for homosexuality is somehow a part of that covenant is no more viable than to claim that his disdain for the Church at Jerusalem is (Gal 1).

[phaseolus]

9. Well, there's that open letter to Dr. Laura...

all over the web, one copy is here --
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_drl.htm

[moez]

10. I don't know if this is what you're referring to or not...

I posted it in another thread. It was an email that I received that made me laugh. Supposedly, it's an "open letter" to Dr. Laura. I'm sure it was bogus, but it's good for a chuckle....

Here goes:


Recently, Dr. Laura Schlessinger said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew,
homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot
be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to
Dr. Laura penned by a US resident which was posted on the Internet.


Dear Dr. Laura:


Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have
learned a great deal from your show and try to share that knowledge with
as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual
lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly
states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from
you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow
them:


1. When I burn a bull on the altar of sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odor for the Lord?Lev. 1:19. The problem is my neighbors. They
claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?


2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus
21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for
her?


3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness?Lev. 15:19-24. The problem is, how do I
tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.


4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and
female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of
mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you
clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?


5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2
clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill
him myself?


6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination?Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I
don't agree. Can you settle this?


7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a
defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my
vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?


8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.
19:27. How should they die?


9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me
unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?


10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different
crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two
different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to
curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the
trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them?Lev. 24:10-16?
Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do
with people who sleep with their in-laws?Lev. 20:14?


I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you
can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and
unchanging.


Your devoted fan

[newyawker99]

23. Hi moez!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Mari333]

11. also try this

www.gaychristians.org for some better interpretations.

[Mixxster]

12. I thought you might have been thinking of the "Dear Dr. Laura" letter, too

But I also found this:

http://www.swade.net/glbt/bible.html#otherab

Remember, according to Leviticus, it is an abomination to eat pork, shrimp, be served your food by a woman in her menses, have sex with her during her period, wear clothes made of multiple blends of fabrics, etc.

Other Abominations deserving death

19:20 If you're a woman, engaged and the dowry's been paid, don't fool around with anyone else!

20:23 Don't adopt the customs of another land!

20:25 Don't eat that ham sandwich! Or that shrimp! And woe to those who enjoy grilled rattlesnake or aligator!

20:27 Somebody call Dionne Warwick and tell her she and her Psychic Hotline buddies are sentenced to death!

24:16 Blasphemers beware!

24:17,21 A strong argument FOR the death penalty!

27:29 Okay, this one is a bit tricky ... If someone donates something to God, and, in turn, that gift is sold, the gift must be put to death!

And, woe to y'all wearing your cotton/rayon blends! Leviticus 19:19

[Plaid Adder]

13. For a more in-depth treatment of the Bible and homosexuality

try http://www.dignityusa.org

Dignity is an organization of gay Catholics and is focused on specifically Catholic issues (reconciling one's own conscience with the Pope's dictates, etc.) but it does provide a good treatment of some of the actual theological issues from a queer-positive perspective.

I'm going to warn you now, though: it is impossible to win an argument with a fundamentalist Christian just by using the Bible. Fundamentalists believe that their reading of the Bible is right no matter what evidence or logic you can produce to challenge it. If they were able to admit that their intepretation of it might be wrong, they wouldn't be fundamentalists.

To me, the single most important fact about the Bible and homosexuality is that Jesus did not appear to care about homosexuality one way or the other. All the passages that specifically mention homosexuality, and which the right uses to beat up on us, are either from the Old Testament or from Paul. Jesus was a lot more worried about money than he was about sex. Most fundamentalist Christians, however, are hysterical about sex while conveniently ignoring the outrageously hypocritical approach most fundamentalist leaders take to the economic-justice issues so dear to Jesus's heart. I mean Bush is a perfect example. What the hell has HE ever done to feed the poor, house the homeless, clothe the naked, etc., since he took office?

The story has been the same throughout American history: Christians read the Bible and they see what they want to see. Puritans saw a justification for taking possession of the native Americans' land (after all, they were going to use it to increase and multiply). Slaveowners saw a justification for slavery. Mormons saw a justification for polygamy. And warmongers find a justification for war. It does not matter how wildly these beliefs may be at variance with what seem, on a first reading, to be the major tenets of Christianity (love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, sell all you have and give it to the poor, etc. etc. etc.). The human brain has an amazingly well-developed capacity to rationalize.

Didn't mean for this to get this long...my point is just that the religious right is never going to be swayed by the argument that they are misinterpreting the Bible. Fundamentalism is all about KNOWING that your personal interpretation of the Word of God is absolutely true and right.

It sucks, but there it is,

The Plaid Adder

[papau]

15. well said

being humble is claimed - but untrue - in those that judge others by their interpretation of "The Law"

It is said that if the way to being with God is the "Law", then there was no point to Jesus’ life.

"The curtain was rent (tore)" - after Jesus’ death on the cross - refers to tearing down the "whose interpretation of the law is correct" curtain that hid the holy of holies - the platform that was the throne of God and behind a curtain in the Temple - so that all could be with God.

[JNelson6563]

14. talk to someone who knows the original

languages for the particular texts you are interested it. I recall some fascinating discussion on this and other issues with a scholar who studied the Greek writings.

Less to be lost in the translation. ;-)

Julie

[MercutioATC]

17. THIS is a great site! Want a bible reference? Look HERE!

www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

[DrFunkenstein]

20. Apparently, God Is Not Down With O.P.P.

20 : 10
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.


An let's not forget that any kid that curses out their parents should surely be put to death:

20 : 9
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

[MercutioATC]

24. It's funny, I never realized that so much of the Bible really DOES read

like a Monty Python skit...

[htuttle]

25. Just don't say...

..."Jehovah"

(ducks and runs)

[supernova]

18. Interesting article from the BBC

comparing liberal and fundamentalist bibical interpretations re: homosexuality.

Exerpt:

There are several verses in the Bible which are similarly contested - there are however a much smaller number of seemingly clear statements. The most famous of them is probably from Leviticus: "You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; that is an abomination."

ANTI-GAY
An anti-gay position would be that this line is unambiguous. It is also repeated elsewhere in the book. The speaker of the words is God, so this is an explicit indication that homosexuality is wrong in God's eyes. It was one of the sins that justified God in giving the land of Canaan to the Israelites

PRO-GAY
A pro-gay argument might say that other verses in the same book forbid a wide range of sexual activities, including having sex with a woman who is having her period. This is an indication that the passage embodies specific cultural values rather than God's law.



The whole article is worth a read. More at:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3205727.stm

[Lisa0825]

21. One of my favorite articles for disputing anti-gay arguments...

http://www.tamfs-michigan.org/biblestudy.htm

A Biblical study pertaining

to the issue of homosexuality

with references to the Presbyterian Confessions, the writings of John Calvin, and noted Biblical scholars

By
Reverend Paul Peterson
Minister of Outreach and Education
That All May Freely Serve, Michigan

[SpiralHawk]

26. For your contemplation at vespers

"We are totally, like, up the estuary of excrement without a manual marine propulsion device."

- Neuvo Bibliaclical assesment of ChimpCo's BibliAckAckAckal Imact on The Planet.