Pummeled with concrete blocks in the face? Bush just lost his war.

[Must_B_Free]

About a dozen swarming teenagers dragged the soldiers out of the wreckage and beat them with concrete blocks, the witnesses said.

"They lifted a block and hit them with it on the face," said Younis Mahmoud, 19.

The bodies were seen with their throats cut. It was unknown whether the soldiers were alive or dead when pulled from the wreckage.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031123/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_633

Folks - Busholini just lost the PR war. The only one to blame is Bush who went ahead with this fiasco for his own profit and power enrichment.

This brings to mind the LA riots and makes one woncder why. Then of course the answer is that we are an invading and occupying force.

Iraq = Waterloo. Bush is our thanksgiving Turkey.

[roguevalley]

1. I have to agree. I can hardly take this in. I am so sorry for the families

that will know this. They will have no comfort for their
children. And what about Iraq? How can we have come to
this?

How can we have come to this?

[hlthe2b]

6. How truly horrible for those families, who (until now) had

been able to console themselves that their loved ones were (perhaps) helping the Iraqi people and thus their sacrifices were tremendously appreciated...

Now, the truth is hitting them square in the face, just as they are reeling from the deaths of their loved ones-- deaths that were all for nothing, it would appear.

[Carolina]

2. how awful for those soldiers

and their families. But I sure hope you're right about this being the harbinger of a real thanksgiving for us!

[Must_B_Free]

54. This is truely horrible...

[Tatiana]

3. I hate Bush.

I really do.

There is NO excuse for this! No excuse for these men and women being led to slaughter, while that asshole spends half his Residency vacationing and attending fundraisers.

UGH... Tears of frustration :(

[dkf]

21. I'm so sick right now.

Why did we get into this mess. My heart is breaking for those poor soldiers and their families. They were just pawns in some stupid idiotic game that I don't even know the point of.

I hope they release the names of these soldiers so they can be honored properly. Bush needs to go to Dover when they come back and he needs to be at their funerals.

Ol' bubble boy needs to see the death and destruction he has caused.
In addition to the bubble boy, Gephardt, Kerry, Lieberman, Clark and Edwards should be there also.

Sickening.

[Malva Zebrina]

42. and visits to lord it over royalty in London

stick in their craw, with his frump o lump, let them eat cake, Stepford , horrendously dressed, wife.

[Closer]

4. This makes me so sad :-(

But let's do the RIGHT thing by not letting this go by the wayside. bAlthough this horrific event is tragic beyond words, this MUST be used against the Bush Cabal!

Were this illegal war under a Democratic President, you better BELIEVE the Repubs would NOT let this one go. It'd be all over the papers, tv and in rightwing talking points as the definitive sign that the Dem's plan had gone awry and was fundamentally wrong headed.


We must do the same. Honor the victims here by keeping this tragic event in people's minds, and in the public conscience.


This sad event marks the beginning of the end of the NeoCon rule, if we do our part.

[Bonobo]

68. Hell yes! Remember what they did to Carter in 1980!

And that was minor compared to the shit the Chimp has led us into!

[Myra]

5. 'Scuse the practical concerns, but please vote this report a 5

Scroll to the bottom and vote 5.

Right now it's 3.73.

[maddezmom]

10. done n~t

[eileen_d]

12. Thanks for the reminder

And let me echo everyone's sadness and disgust. :(

[RetroLounge]

47. Done

and disgusted...

[maddezmom]

7. saw this earlier

so f'ing sad. I saw a thread earlier today from a mom who had a step mom going to be processed. Hope she didn't see this. :(

[Military Brat]

8. This is about as grotesque as it gets

What next? Will they tie our dead or dying soldiers to bumpers and drag them through the streets? What's it going to take, bush, what the hell is it going to take???

Just say it, bush, just say our will won't be broken. Go ahead, say it, you AWOL deserter. Tell them one more time in that privileged snotty voice of yours, "Bring 'em on," and stomp your little pointy-toed cowboy boots for emphasis.

:mad:

[lolly]

9. Images?

If I recall, the images from Somalia were replayed over and over on TV.

I'm sure the reason AWOL's war team has kept reporters away from all the copter crashes is that they don't want similar images broadcast repeatedly--ditto with the images of returning soldiers in coffins.

If TV doesn't have pictures, they report it once, then it's an "old story," dropped in favor of pictures of Jacko being brough into court.

I wish I were wrong, but after seeing poll after poll showing that around half the American populace still admires this buffoon after he's sent hundreds of our soldiers off to be slaughtered, it's hard for me to think the corporate press will change under any provocation.

[Abe Linkman]

13. bush now has a "great" excuse to ratchet up the war machine

Anyone who thinks this is the beginning of the end is naive. If anything, it will serve as a rationale for further U.S. led/supported reprisals against the Iraqi people.

In a sick sort of way, "they're" glad this happened. It's a great excuse to do more, so that by next June, the "enemy" will no longer be a "threat".

[Minstrel Boy]

60. you're right. "Bad PR" for Bush? He thrives on this.

It's more red meat to throw to the propagandized throng. Hear them clamour ever louder for Iraq's sand to be turned to glass.

[hlthe2b]

15. Sadly, you may be right. We may NEED to have

video or photos of these attrocities beamed to the American public before it even begins to "penetrate" their consciousness.

[Noordam]

11. I never want to hear about Blackhawk DOWN and Clinton did it

These soldiers should be home with the families.

[tomzee]

14. those who forget history....

Leading up to this fiasco, did anybody in this administration go to school on what happened to the Soviets in Afghanistan? Many differences in circumstances, to be sure, but you'd think that would have given some pause to the planners. It gets more unbelievable every day.

[R3dD0g]

19. MOAB

The MOAB bomb was tested this weekend. It would be a perfect first use to drop it on the citizens of Mosul.

[qanda]

23. Yes, that would be the complete their "Liberation"

I thought those in the north were our friends? Friends don't drop MOAB's on friends.

[Renew Deal]

41. lol

They would be liberated from this planet. That's a funny comment.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chookie]

66. Seriously....

Do you think they will use the MOAB in Iraq? I know it was meant to scare the hell out of everyone and get them to pee themselves like frightened little girls -- but do you think they would use it?

I think not very likely.

Hell of a lot of good it would do anyway, because here we go again -- getting snuffed and humiliated with stuff like box cutters and bricks.

But we will see a new bombing campaign come out of this.

Remember how the commander over there was crowing just a few days ago that since the last bombing campaign, that attacks on troops have dropped 70%? He spoke too soon.

[lolly]

20. Hallmark of Ideologues

Fanatics think they're in control of history, that nothing can stop them.

Why did Hitler try to invade Russia in winter, with the devastating failure of one of history's greatest generals, Napoleon, as such an obvious warning of the stupidity of such an enterprise? His obsession with his own rightness made him utterly incapable of considering the possibility of failure.

So, no, the lessons of the Soviets in Afghanistan, and of the U.S. in Vietnam, are meaningless to these people. They are rigid and fanatical, devoted only to advancing their maniacal cause.

I suppose the good news is that these people always eventually overreach and come crashing down. The truly horrible news is that they usually leave several nations destroyed in their wake--and lots of innocent lives, like the poor young men in those pictures. The other bad news is that the average citizen seems equally incapable of applying the lessons of history to these madmen once they get caught up in the nationalistic fervor.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jmowreader]

52. Yes, of course we can!

If you live in Utah, you even have the option of being executed by firing squad.

Read Elie Wiesel's Night. He discusses a public hanging in one of the camps he was in. A couple of people did something to piss the camp commander off--I don't remember what, maybe attempting escape--and were hanged in front of the whole camp. They tied 'em up, dropped 'em, made everyone march past so they'd see clearly what happens to people who fuck up, then left the bodies there until the next day.

This may be a good thing to do with the entire BFEE--is someone keeping track of the extent of that criminal enterprise?

[Malva Zebrina]

53. OK--OK

:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

[Yupster]

55. Hitler invaded USSR

on June 22, 1941.

[fujiyama]

32. I sometimes wonder

It's difficult to believe eveyone one of those in the administration are so poorly read and unaware of history.

I swear, when they named the operation "Iron Hammer", one of them must have known that the Nazis had an operation that tranlated to exactly the same thing.

They must have known that after "defeating" a decrepit, poorly maintained army that they had just taken over a nation with thousands of years of history, that would fight their occupiers to the death. They surely would have known that this nation they had invaded and owned in a sense, had a population of several million, few of whom wanted to be occupied by a foreign power.

Surely they couldn't have been as naive to believe that these people would throw flowers, instead of grenades...

The world has too many examples of guerilla wars that couldn't be won. Our own nation had one, which ended with the deaths of over 58, 000 Americans, and what is probably several million Asians. The cheif American rival in the last half century had one in South/Central Asia which eventually destroyed their status as a Super Power.

If those cases are too far back in history, let us look to the last ten years, where Americans where butchered in Africa, once again being forced to leave.

Of course in that instance we were told instead by the media how the new president had little experience and how his predecessor had led a "definitive" victory in the same nation we are bogged down now. Endless hours of Americans being dragged through the streets were shown. That same media mentions soldiers being killed in passing, and jumos to the next celebrity murder or scandal with glee.

We are fools to believe that this same media will give us a fair shot in the next election. This same media, owned by corporations which have benefitted greatly through this administration's policies. The deck is stacked against us, be it we nominate a wounded war hero and four star general, or a governor from a liberal state.

[Bonobo]

69. Yup, I know one thing-you can't beat folks who are so determined

that they will rig up that donkeycart to fire missiles. We are doomed over there because they will NEVER give up. You are 100% correct.

[chookie]

65. I believe they did not

Bush is no historian. He does not seek out a range of opinions, but rather chooses to listen to a narrow circle of ideologues, or is being used by ideologues, who he is too lazy or incompetent to check.

I'm sorry -- Condi must be one stupid human. She's incompetent! Get her OUT of there. I guess her Soviet studies ended before the Afghan War, and she hasn't picked up a book since. I don't think any of these people are up to their job. They thought they were wise, because they were ignorant.

Gee -- leaders usually want to hear from the best and the brightest, to have a wide range of options, to have considered a range of scenarios. Not these guys. All along, what they wanted to do was rush to this war. It was eerie how they were rushing things!

We have the greatest army in history, but I think not even the greatest army in history is going to prevail when they are sent to fight a stupid war according to a wacky plan.

I know the Bushistas are claiming people like me are delighting to see Bush fail. Not true. I am horrified. Only thing is, I *knew* all along that he would fail, and heaven knows, I tried to stop him in my small capacity as an American citizen.

[Deja Q]

16. This will make Bush angry, Americans angry too - but not at Bush...

Americans will see Iraqis as defiant animals. Those for this 'war' already see the Iraqi people as such, but the undecided folk are becoming more decided. Decided in the wrong way because they don't understand the whole situation or prefer to think one-sidedly.

Bush will also be persuaded to use more frightning methods to stop the Iraqi people from what I feel is a just retaliation on their part. If you think that hearing about nuclear bullets was bad, just wait.

Okay, in all honesty I'm not a Saddam-lover. He's done his share of vile things. But I sure as hell can't support bush* and his haphazard plans. And we all know this "war" was about petty vengeance and oil, the facts that unfolded during the invasion speak for themselves. And while Saddam would have used WMD if he had them (the way bush* was chiding him, how else would he have responded? Duh), it's quite clear that bush* has TONS of WMDs and has no qualms about using them. bush* is a far greater danger than all the terrorists combined, even if his actions create a thousandfold more terrorists, he is still the more dangerous - because he will only create more of what he wants to fight. "Bring 'em on" speaks volumes as well. bush* is a sadistic warmonger, period.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Actually I beg to differ

this will make some Americans angry at the Iraqis, the usual
bomb them to the stone age suspects.

But it will also make others stand up and go, hmmm... where are
the flowers? This will hit hard against the propaganda and will make
more and more ask, what the F#UCK are we doing there?

[Deja Q]

36. I hope so

Time will tell... I hope you're right, I tend to be a pessimist...

[alcuno]

35. They made a HUGE strategic error; they gave the American people an out.

You said that Americans would see Iraqis as "defiant animals." Then what did we go over and liberate them for? Oh, we didn't go to liberate them? We went for WMD's? Then where are they?

The problem with the Iraqis are defiant animals' argument is that it doesn't fit with the liberation argument and there are no WMD's.

So once again, Americans are left wondering why we are there. The administration made a huge strategic error by giving Americans an out when the going got tough. Now everyone can just say, "I was lied to."

[Malva Zebrina]

46. Of course

that is why there was not a real plan for occupied Iraq. These people could always be villified as either infidels (wrong religion, wrong god) or as scum. Bush et al knew they could sell Iraqi people as scum of the earth, no matter what they had to do to get that impression over. Think about it--the Iraqi people, as innocent as they are, are being villified daily--they were never ever given any respect at all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Well the propaganda will fail

ONLY if this breaks thorugh the wash and people see the pictures

Folks this may very well be the begining of the end and if Iraq goes, so do the dreams of an American Empire and the spreaad to Iran,

Which from the POV of Wolfowitz is kind of reality hitting the dreams
he has had since '92

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

22. Pictures WILL come out.

They always do, and they always find somewhere to be published. Just the way it is.

When they do, they will be ONE in a string of Mogadishus for the maladministration.

There is no difference, none whatsoever, between this sad and butt-ugly event and the events in Somalia. Except for the fact that Dems, being fundamentally more decent folks, won't try to take political advantage with this on The Hill.

I am not sure whether to be proud of that fact or cry bitter tears because of it.

[youngred]

25. Will this percipitate a withdrawl

what will all the Republicans who criticized Clinton after Mogadishu do?

This is a horrible day for the US military and the US as a country...I'm just glad for once that bad news for the country is bad news for bush too instead of elevating him higher

[nostamj]

28. with bush?

an escalation!

flags and patriotic outrage!!

sickening.

[Dr Fate]

26. "Bush Haters"

The media calls DEmocrats the Bush-haters!!!

JEEZUSS CHRIST!!! The propaganda is so thick you could cut it with a butter knife...

[spanone]

29. Teenagers.....guess the next generations loves liberation

[Fleshdancer]

33. I read that half of the Iraqi population is under the age of 18

At this point, I don't think Iraqi has a "teenage" population...either they're children or adults. I imagine war doesn't give people the luxury of growing up slowly.

[aquart]

38. In war countries, the natural end of puberty is death.

Wait till it's 90% under 18. And every fatherless child hates us.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

50. The average age of an American Civil War soldier was 17...

...and they were seeing things in battle that no human being should never have to see. There weren't many "children" back then, either.

The longer this war continues, the more hardened the Iraqis will become toward death of any kind.

[wtmusic]

30. "We all know that Americans are being threatened," Croke said.

Touchy, touchy. Now--do we know *why* Americans are being threatened?

[Fleshdancer]

31. gruesome photo on drudgereport

Just when you think things can't get any worse. My breaking heart goes out to the families.

My brother has to go back to Iraq after the Christmas holidays...so much for a merry holiday season.

[nostamj]

37. "We're not going to get ghoulish about it"

In Baghdad, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt confirmed the Mosul deaths but refused to provide details.

"We're not going to get ghoulish about it," he said.

The savagery of the attack was unusual for Mosul, once touted as a success story in sharp contrast to the anti-American violence seen in Sunni Muslim areas north and west of Baghdad.

[gristy]

34. I think events like this one, and this event in particular, will renew

calls for the BFEE's impeachment and removal from office. Not explicitly because 2 soldiers were brutally murdered in Iraq, but because the horror of Bush's illegal war is made SO clear, and when the horror is clear, the minds and ears of so many Americans and their Representatives will be opened to the brutal illegality of this war and to the lies that led to it. drip, DRIP, DRIP!

[asjr]

39. bush

What I would like to see is millions of citizens pounding the pavement to the door of the WH saying We are not leaving until you are gone! He did enough in his first few months in the WH to require impeachment. DUers have been calling for it for ages. We have been steamrolled. I have been watching C-Span about the energy bill and the "war on Medicare" and am sickened by how the Repubs are acting. And a minute ago I heard Dianne Feinstein saying she will vote for the medicare bill. Why? I could hardly believe my ears. If this bill goes through we seniors are goners. I am so outraged and heavy of heart that my country has been taken over by greedy power-lovers who are bent on making this a police state.

[leesa]

40. Very terrible, but I don't see why this is Bush's Waterloo

Americans think the only response to something like this is to bomb them some more. Americans virtually never put two and two together. Bush will point out the barbarism of those "terrorists" and the American public will cry for more Iraqi blood.

[scottcsmith]

43. I am so angry

If you've ever visited my web page, you know I am no supporter of this war in Iraq, and you've probably read the hate mail sent to me. I can't believe there are so many people in the United States that do not take issue with this war and the actions taken by Bush and his administration. When will Americans wake up? When we hit 1000 dead? 2000? More? All of this for nothing, just dead kids in a deadly snipe hunt. And they'll continue to die, one after the other, and conservatives will excuse every fucking decision and action taken by the Bush administration, and they will continue to trivialize the deaths of these soldiers. No wonder the rest of the world hates us.

[gristy]

45. Checked out your web site, Scott.

Looks great. Keep the faith. We DUers love you.

[karlschneider]

51. Checked your website. Very well done, sir.

I have to wonder just exactly what some of the hate-mail authors think they were actually 'defending'.

Obviously not the Constitution.
good job.

[benburch]

59. Re: I am so angry

No wonder the rest of the world hates us.

I am beginning to hate this damned country, too. I live with sheep who can only look the other way while the wolves who run the show slaughter their children.

[leftofthedial]

48. I think the masses of American people will do one of two things

1. Remain willfully ignorant ("what ambush? I never watch the news").

OR

2. Believe exactly what the RW disinformation machine tells them to believe, which will NOT be anger at Bush.






edit: punctuation

[Media_Lies_Daily]

49. Two comments concerning the harsh reality of combat in the Middle...

...East. As the cycle of attack-retaliate-attack-retaliate repeats itself in Afghanistan and Iraq, the level of brutality will rise on a gradual basis.

Here are my two comments...and neither is very pleasant to talk about:

1) It took quite a few killings like this of American troops in Vietnam before the American public at large began to understand that we were locked in a brutal war with no clear exit strategy. Sound familiar?

2) When Soviet troops were captured by the Afghan resistance, they would be executed while the event was filmed. That film would be left on or near the body of the executed man so that everyone would understand what would happen if captured. Once in a while the Afghans would make sure that the film made it into the hands of the commanding officer of the soldier's unit.

The method of execution became more brutal as the was continued. The favored mode of execution late in the war involved forcing the bound prisoner to lie on the ground with his head held immobile by a boot or two pressing his head to the ground. A large knife would then be pushed completely through the neck from side to side, and then sliced outward to completely cut the throat. The cutting would be continued until the head was completely severed. Of course, the sound effects of the dying prisoner just made the videos even worse.

Any wonder now why the Soviets cremated the bodies of their dead before sending them home in small aluminum containers? Remember this idea being brought to the surface by the Pentagon prior to the attack on Iraq?

These kinds of brutal events will begin to happen to American troops with increased regularity as the war in the Middle East drags on. IMHO, if the Bushies insist on expanding the war to include other Middle Eastern countries, it will get a great deal worse. We are making enemies of people in that region that carry grudges and have long memories.

[grasswire]

58. I've been over to freeperville..

...to see the reaction. Most of them think mosul should be nuked now; leveled. They seem to think that the land is ours to have and say nothing about the fact that Iraqis are repelling invaders.

[retyred]

61. This is exactly the way

it will be played by the conservative press, Iraq was wrong before, during and after the war and it isn't just republicans that feel this way, a lot of democrats feel Iraq needed to be invaded and conquered.

bush will come out and do his best John Wayne about we will not be detered and main stream America will pick up a flag, wave it proudly and claim what a brave man our flightsuit is.

Most Americans will see this as more reasons that the war on terror needs to be fought even harder and these heathen bastards need and deserve whatever we care to dish out.



retyred in fla
“good night paul, wherever you are”
read the book

[Walt Starr]

56. This is Bush's Mogadishu

The only difference is, his predecessor didn't get him into the conflict.

[BurntIceCubeTray]

57. How many Iraq teenagers will be pre-empted for this?

What do you think the 101st members are thinking right now?

[Must_B_Free]

62. Just think of all the progress we've made from this incident.

remember - the more they kill us, the more progress we're making.

[chookie]

63. The Mother of All Turkey Shoots

I do not oppose Bush reflexively. I try very hard to see the bright side, or, failing that, even the other guy's point of view. I have given careful consideration to what he is doing in Iraq. That being said, he has failed to convince me that his actions, after Sept 11, and even well before it, are anything short of a disaster for our beloved nation.

It hurts deeply when we lose any of ours, but there was something particularly troubling about these latest casualties.

My view is, increasingly, that we are being humiliated in Iraq -- here we are, the greatest power on the planet, in history, and we are defenseless against determined thugs. Uh -- this is *very* bad PR. We are providing delight to the people who hate us, to see us be humiliated.

Even the US commander said today to the effect that "They know they cannot be victorious in fighting using conventional methods -- so they do stuff like this." No shit, Sherlock! That's precisely the point. And I am beginning to wonder -- very seriously -- if we cannot possibly prevail over those who employ these "uncoventional means." That is a pretty sobering thought, deeply deeply troubling to me.

So -- how is His Chimperial Highness going to deal with this? By bombing the shit out of innocent people, in order to scare the hell out of EVERYBODY in the Middle East. I think to scare them into surrendering is going to mean war on such an inhuman scale that the rest of the world will probably attack us directly or otherwise. More likely -- it's just going to make more people turn to jihad.

Here we go, gang! We haven't exported democracy to Iraq -- we've created our own Israel/Palestine quagmire.

His Chimperial Highness has gotten us into deep shit. I think the situation is far more serious than people realize. Truly, our Achille's Heel has been exposed.

Bush will say we must go like lambs to the slaughter to "show our resolve." I think we can show our damned resolve all we want, but we're still not going to win this thing. We'll just be short a lot good men. For all our military might, in the eyes of the world, America is seen being plinked off one man at a time, and that looks very very very weak.

My god -- you're right -- it's lost. They REALLY made a mess out of this thing. Even if they did have the best of intentions (which I do not believe) -- my god, they've totally botched it. This is going to have severe repercussions for years to come, regardless of who's president.

Have you noticed -- Bush is now selling this war in very general terms, that it is The Very Battle For Freedom? He really seems to think of this, or perhaps is trying to sell it, as Armageddon. And, um, I think the Book of Revelations is the only one he's using to run his foreign policy.

I predict it's all going to get much much worse....

[Zero Division]

64. A comment from a Calpundit reader describes exactly how the RW

war supporters' feelings about "Iraqi liberation" would change over time due to the inevitable backlash against American troops in Iraq:

This is about the 25th post down (by "Jon") in the Comments section for this post: http://www.calpundit.com/archives/002697.html

"1. Weepy self-regard for their own moral beauty, with simultaneous denunciations of those who inexplicably hated Iraqis and wanted them to live in bondage forever

2. Confusion and anger when Iraqis failed to deliver neverending hosannas to their goodness

3. The desire to start mowing Iraqis down wholesale for their lack of gratitude."

[Lefta Dissenter]

67. Does anyone know where there might be a transcript

of today's military briefing? I was sort of listening, but then my daughter got home, so I was distracted...

I could swear, though, that he said something to the effect of, "the attacks against us are becoming less and less significant." I'd really like to see a transcript, to see if that is, indeed, what he said. If so, do you think that the families of those young soldiers would consider the attacks insignificant?

I am just horrified by the lack of any sort of humanity in ANY of the members of our administration.

My greatest sorrow is for those families... my heart is just broken for them.

[Fleshdancer]

70. This is insane

It wasn't too long ago the neocon crackpots were praising Operation Iron Hammer (was that the name?) as being an effective way of controlling terrorist activity in the area. :grr:

[oasis]

71. This occupation of Iraq is NOT a war on terrorism. Wake up national press.