Death Sentence For Sniper John Muhammad Is WRONG...

[arwalden]

... as soon as he's dead, his punishment is over. His imprisonment has ended. He no longer cares. Why? Because he's dead.

Death is not a "punishment"... it's revenge for (from) the living.

I'm positive that in the months and years prior to his actual execution, he might be frightened or he may have regrets... but as soon as he's dead, it's over. End of story. Lights out. Game over. PUNISHMENT over. Fini.

But in an alternate universe, his punishment could have continued for the rest of his natural life... year after year... decade after decade. Continuous nonstop punishment. (And at quite a bargain too. If I recall correctly, the sum-total costs involved with actually executing someone is far less than a lifetime of imprisonment.)

[TexasMexican]

1. nah.

the sooner he is dead and everyone forgets about him the better.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TexasMexican]

18. yeah because...

belief in the death penalty is the same as supporting the president.

We all breathe the air, does that mean that you are supporting the same values that the president is? :eyes:

[stopthegop]

2. depending on who's right and wrong

about the afterlife...his punishment will just be getting started when he dies

this is just the general death penalty issue...no different in this one case...people believe what they believe...one man's case isn't likely to change minds

[arwalden]

13. Ah... but even THERE he's got an "out"...

I believe that he can be forgiven for his sins, can't he? Someone may need to help me out here and educate me about how Muslims deal with last-minute death-bed confessions and absolution... but the christians make it clear that one need only ask for forgiveness, and accept the lord Jesus and you shall enter the kingdom of heaven.

"Hi Jesus, Mohammad here. I ask for forgiveness and accept you as my Savior."

"Welcome to Heaven, John."

Punishment over.


-- Allen

[forgethell]

45. Yeah,

but a) it's got to be sincere, b) there is still the question of rewards. No doubt this thug will inhabit the slums of heaven, if he ever gets there. And c) as we do not know how God will finally judge this man, we have to go on our own crimiinal law. Being "forgiven" dow not mean the malefactor shouldn't suffer the consequences of what he has done.

[TXlib]

3. The religious conservatives who believe in the DP

think they're sending him to Hell faster.

[Serenades]

4. well

trust me, he will be roasting in some sort of hell even if you are not a believer. there's gotta be karma for stuff like this.

[hlthe2b]

5. I am also strongly anti-Death Penalty...

But, from the perspective of the victim families, I can certainly understand why they would think that death penalty would give them peace (which I believe is NOT the case). I think they picture it as the ultimate "light switch," and that once its been pulled, that there is a finality for them. They no longer have to think about this person and can go on with their lives. I think this is a myth that has been perpetuated around all of our psychobabble theories of "closure." Sadly, for their sakes, as well as for that of society.

[DianeK]

7. under no circumstances do i

accept the death penalty for anyone....it is barbaric and has no place in a civilized society

[Drifter]

8. I am for the death penalty ...

I have been for a long time. Recently, I believe I have been enlightened about how easy it is to condemn the wrong person. I am much less for the death penalty, than I used to be. The death penalty should also include a voluntary provision (ie, McVeigh, waved his rights for appeals, and asked to be put to death without delay).

With that said, I think Muhammad is an ideal candidate for the death penalty. He killed random people. This does not take into account the rumor that these sniper killings were designed to cover the killing of his (ex) wife.

Cheers
Drifter

[forgethell]

47. If this jerk

doesn't deserve the death penalty, no one does. Not even Bush, hey?? But he dos. You make a good point, though. Innocent people are convicted, sometimes. I think a lot of it has to do with prosecutors trying to tie cases to someone, anyone, so their resume looks good. Careerism is the bane of political offices.

My solution is to close procedural loopholes for appeal, but anytime new evidence is brought forward, it should be considered.

[rjbcar27]

9. Disagree Allen

sorry

[TXlib]

10. Ummm...

If I recall correctly, the sum-total costs involved with actually executing someone is far less than a lifetime of imprisonment.

Do you mean the cost of bringing somebody from arrest to execution is far more than bringing somebody from arrest to life imprisonment?

I think that's what you meant to say, and that's what the numbers show.

[arwalden]

14. Yes, that's what I mean. (Your words were more accurate than mine. Thanks)

.

[WinstonChurchill]

11. You make a Compelling Argument for a Slow Death With Pain Enhancers

This guy made a trap door in his trunk to murder folks who were pumping gas, a small boy going to school, a woman shopping at a Home Depot.

He deserves very special treatment.

Very special.

Folks who believe that the death penalty is wrong, no matter how heinous the act, have a "religion" that is different from the masses. They are not going to help Democrats take back political control of this nation.

[prolesunited]

21. So if you're anti-death penalty

It will be your fault Democrats lose?!?!

If you look at the FACTS — not emotions — regarding the death penalty, you will understand that it serves no useful purpose. Look at how many other countries worldwide have abolished it.

In fact, we are one of the FEW countries that allow the death penalty for teens, but I'm sure we'll have a lot of people arguing that Malvo should be put to death as well.

What's interesting to note is that both this guy and McVeigh were military vets who both fought in the first war with Iraq. We trained and programmed them to kill people. When they go haywire and pick the wrong targets, then we turn around and kill them. There is something wrong with this picture.

I don't want him to be free to roam the streets, but tell me what purpose executing him will serve?

[WinstonChurchill]

40. If Our Candidates Are Anti Death Penalty, We Lose National Elections

You can be for whatever you wish, and I can respect that. Do you want to win elections, or feel self-righteous in loss?

I know what I prefer.

[prolesunited]

48. Do you think

we'll win even bigger if the candidates advocate torture as you did in your original post?

I wasn't stating anything about candidates or their positions on the death penalty. In fact, I'll probably be voting for someone who does NOT share my opinion on the death penalty, so you made a really HUGE leap in logic in that I will self-righteously cause the downfall of the Democratic party.

You still didn't answer my question: What does having the state kill him accomplish?

BTW, I can hardly believe some of the comments in this thread. It is one thing to take a principled stand in favor of the death penalty and I can respect that. However, the bloodlust exhibited by some here is appalling.

Advocating torture, more pain, can't wait for him to fry — that makes you, our society, better how?

[Walt Starr]

12. Hell, I think he's the poster child for the death penalty.

Quite frankly, after this case, I'm glad there is a death penalty.

[Loonman]

15. Set him to dance

A sniper, who gave his victims no chance or mercy, also deserves no mercy.

I'll fucking clap when he goes down.

[YNGW]

16. comment

There are some crimes that are so hideous that the people commiting them deserve to die for what they have done (given they understood what they were doing). I personally would have to put premeditated murder, rape, and child molestation at the top of that list.

dai

[ElsewheresDaughter]

17. oh yes let us heap more violence upon the violence already done......sigh

[Larry Gude]

19. Uhm...

"I'm positive that in the months and years..."

"he might be frightened or he may have regrets..."

Positive? Might and may?

This man HUNTED human beings at their most innocent and most vulnerable. He corrupted a boy into participating.

You don't put down a rabid dog as a warning to the other rabid dogs.

[Walt Starr]

28. WELL SAID!

You don't put down a rabid dog as a warning to the other rabid dogs.

It deserved to be repeated!

[Renew Deal]

20. I understand what you are saying. Now fry the bastard.

I am sympathetic to your argument. I even agree with you on some level. But I don't have a problem with this. As long as the proof is overwhelming (DNA), I have no issue. Especially if the family wants it.

[prolesunited]

23. Actually

they couldn't prove that he fired the weapon that actually killed someone. They were able to prove that he helped orchestrate everything, but not that he actually pulled the trigger.

[Egnever]

22. I hope he picks the electric chair.

he deserves to fry. Leathal injection is too easy for the likes of him.

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

24. Sorry . . . .

. . . but I don't see it. I recognize that reasonable minds can disagree on this issue, but my position is that any society that says that there is NO crime, no matter how heinous, that warrants the "ultimate penalty" is a society that, when all is said and done, doesn't itself respect human life.

This may seem paradoxical to some, but to take the position that, no matter WHAT a person does, no matter how horrible, or depraved, or destructive to individuals or to society as a whole, it is never appropriate to apply the death penalty seems morally incoherent to me.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

25. didn't your parents, teachers, ministers teach you the axiom "2 wrongs

can never make a right"???....NEVER

[TexasMexican]

29. actually no.

mine parents never really did, also we didnt go to church too often.

Even had they done so, I dont actually buy into that saying.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

31. pity...i sure hope your future treats you with same regards

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

44. It's true that "two wrongs don't make a right" . . . .

. . . but I don't agree that the death penalty is, in all cases, "wrong." So where does that leave us?

There are many, many problems with the death penalty with respect to its implementation, I agree. But I do not accept that premise that, as a society, we lack the moral authority to inflict the ultimate punishment on someone, regardless of how heinous a crime he may have perpetrated. To my way of thinking, that position, taken to its logical end, is tantamount to saying that human life has no intrinsic value.

[Avalux]

26. Nope not wrong

No religous spin about hell or anything from me. If he's dead; we don't have to pay for him to stay alive, feed him, send him to college, provide him with better medical care than I receive.

Sorry if this sounds harsh - it's how I feel.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

34. sparosnare did you know that it cost far more to carry out DP than life

in prison woithout parole...NY $23 million to prosecute a capital case and execute.....verses 2.5 million to house that inmate for life over 40 years?

[Avalux]

35. I'm interested in what you're saying

please provide me with stats from legitimate sources that this is true. If I'm wrong in thinking Mohammed will be taken care of better than a lot of citizens in this country (big one for me is medical care), then I'll rethink my position.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

38. sparosnare here ya go..this is excepted fact even of proponents for the DP

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/

Costs: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108&scid=7
The estimated costs for NY's death penalty which was reinstated in 1995: $160 million, or approximately $23 million for each person sentenced to death. source: Times Union Sept. 22, 2003

[DarkPhenyx]

27. So you are interested in revenge then.

Interesting opinion. However I do not want Mr. Mohammad to live the rest of his life in relative comfort on my bill. If he is going to be in life forever w/o parole just shoot him. Save us all a lot of money.

[opihimoimoi]

No death penalty?? OK, how about a half and half? Stone him half to death

and then give him the tv, the computer, the living room, the nice bed, doctors, hospital care, nurses, pyschiatrists, case workers, friendly guards, walks in the garden, weight/fitness rooms, table tennis, a library, some lap dancers, and good chow at the seafood buffet.

[GOPFighter]

30. Does anyone think...

...that putting Muhammad to death will deter others from doing what he did? Hell, no. All the murderers put to death up til now didn't deter him. So let's at least be honest about what it really is: revenge.

[YNGW]

32. answer

No one is claiming that the death penality is a deterant. It's for people who have committed crimes that are so horrible in nature that they deserve to die for what they have done. Going out on a random shooting spree to kill innocent people qualifies.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

41. FACT states with the DP have HIGHER murder rates than states without DP

FBI Report Reveals Murder Rate Rise in the South
According to the FBI's Preliminary Uniform Crime Report for 2002, the murder rate in the South increased by 2.1% while the murder rate in the Northeast decreased by almost 5%. The South accounts for 82% of all executions since 1976; the Northeast accounts for less than 1%. Read the report. (FBI Preliminary Uniform Crime Report 2002, June 16, 2003).


Four new studies on deterrence throw further doubt that there is any deterrent effect from sentencing people to death or executing people for homicide. The studies did find support for a brutalization effect. (RECAP Newsletter, National Death Penalty Developments, 12/99)


States Without the Death Penalty Have Better Record on Homicide Rates
A new survey by the New York Times found that states without the death penalty have lower homicide rates than states with the death penalty. The Times reports that ten of the twelve states without the death penalty have homicide rates below the national average, whereas half of the states with the death penalty have homicide rates above. During the last 20 years, the homicide rate in states with the death penalty has been 48% - 101% higher than in states without the death penalty. "I think Michigan made a wise decision 150 years ago," said the state's governor, John Engler, a Republican, referring to the state's abolition of the death penalty in 1846. "We're pretty proud of the fact that we don't have the death penalty." (New York Times, 9/22/00)
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=167

[WinstonChurchill]

43. Yes, and it Will Surely Deter Him

Remember the serial murderer Ted Bundy -- he killed young women all over the country? At one point he was in prison in Colorado and escaped. He went on to Florida where he killed six or more other young women.

Had he been convicted and executed in Colorado, how many of those Florida women would he have killed.

Answer: zero.

Your argument fails, my friend.

[TexasMexican]

33. religious thoughts on the death penalty.

I read Txlibs post about how religious conservatives feel that killing him will just get him to hell faster.

To some degree I believe in this. I do believe in a heaven and a hell, I dont consider myself a religious conservative because I dont buy into alot of the other morality things that religious conservatives do. However I do believe that this guy will go to hell.

On the other hand, lets for he sake of assume that there isnt anything after you die.

Then this guy effectively made those other people cease to exist, they no longer can no longer have any effect on the rest of history they can no longer write books or whatever about thier experiences or ordeals that can be passed on to future generations. I say we kill this guy so that he cant do that either. Why give him life in prision where he would have time to put his thoughts and ideas down on paper. Which would effectively allow them to live past his death. Lets kill him and forget about him. He doesnt deserve to exist.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

36. texmex that's what they believed would happen to Jesus in his day too

the state of his day executed him...he recieved the death penalty....isn't that ironic?...Jesus was on death row and murdered by the State

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

37. What? No Florida-map-adorned flamefests yet?

Kinko's must be closed today. Or their link is busted.

[leftofthedial]

39. I don't know about "wrong"

but it's definitely a couple of years too late.

[roughsatori]

42. I am against the death penalty in ALL instances

Yes even for the Bin Ladens and Bushes of the world. Life in prison without parole for all capital convictions.

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

46. Your position . . . .

. . . strikes me as logically and morally incoherent. "Life in prison without possibility of parole," it seems to me, is tantamount to a concession that the criminal in question is beyond the reach of secular redemption or rehabilitation. Yet, at the same time, you apparently believe that we as a society lack the moral authority to inflict the ultimate punishment on that person.

I don't understand that: you're saying that society has the moral authority to lock a person up for life, with NO possibility of freedom under any circumstance -- i.e., an absolute and permanent moral judgment. What ultimate value is being served by sparing the person's life in that situation? It just strikes me as soft-headed moral cowardice, masquerading as "enlighted" social policy.

[prolesunited]

49. Of course

It is MUCH more moral and enlightened to take a life. :eyes:

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

50. I don't get it . . . .

. . . why not engage the moral and logical issue presented?

What is so "enlightened" about saying that society has the moral authority to imprison a person for life, with no possibility of ever being freed -- i.e., a concession, at least as a practical matter -- that that society has no interest whatsoever of taking account of the person's rehabilitation, should it occur -- but that society has no moral authority to put that person to death? I don't get it.