Cloture passes ... then daschle comes out

[Egnever]

Sites the bill up for vote being against the budget rules. This party aint over yet.

[maddezmom]

1. looks like a long day for the Senators

it'll go back and forth all day.

[Egnever]

2. Frist asks for waiver on budget act rules.

This also requires 60 votes to pass. so we are back in a cloture vote type scenario. Or filibuster if you will. Gonna be a long day like you said.

[flpoljunkie]

5. Thanks for posting this, Egnever. Hope lives!

Bill Nelson will no doubt vote against waiving the budget act. Perhaps this is what his office meant.

[Hawkeye-X]

6. Sorry, the 1975 Budget Act is clear

Frist can't waive it.. It'll be unconstitutional if it passes, which violates OTHER laws involving Medicare.

Hawkeye-X

[msmcghee]

20. Help with point of order.

Can someone here point me to a clear explanation what "point of order" actually means? HawkeyeX maybe.

I've heard it used many times - but I've never really understood it. I always thought it was quibbling over process and not really important. But here, it looks like it can actally kill the bill. Is that correct?

[Egnever]

24. Yes this can/will kill the bill unless.....

The senate votes to waive the rule, wich requires 60 votes{same as cloture vote} to pass. So we are basically back where we were before the cloture vote but given more time for debate.

You know if i didnt find the prospect of this thing passing so frightening. This would be very entertaining. Or maybe its very entertaining because the prospect of it passing is so frightening.

This stuff is better than any cliffhanger I have ever seen.

[goobergunch]

26. Point of Order - raised when something violates the rules

If sustained and not waived, the something dies.

[Tatiana]

3. Well at least he is trying to do something.

Though I still feel he should have voted against cloture and supported the filibuster.

[Egnever]

7. Actually this is smart

It acts almost exactly the same as a filibuster as it requires the same 60 votes to waive the rules in the budget act. So this allows more debate and forces the repugs to go on record as bending the rules in order to pass this thing. It will be interesting to see where this goes. It has the potential to kill it on procedural grounds before an actual vote ever hapens.

[nostamj]

9. IMAGINE that!

REPUBLICANS changing the RULES to get what they want.

what will they think of next?

[prolesunited]

13. Kinda like what they did

to get it through the House.

[Tatiana]

17. Exactly!

I sure home Daschle knows what he's doing. If he stops this bill from passing, he just may have saved his job as minority leader.

[DancingBear]

42. Do I detect a hint of sarcasm in your voice?

snit, snit, snit. :) :)

[bain_sidhe]

8. Did you hear his intro?

He said, basically, that there are more rules/proceedures about which a point of order can be raised... Have a feeling he's planning to raise more than this one, with each one taking a two hour (at least) debate to resolve.

Crafty. I like it!

[MoonAndSun]

4. what is Daschle trying to do with this argument?

is there something going on behind the scenes we do not know about?

[flpoljunkie]

10. Cost of bill exceeds the $400 budgeted in the Budget Act of 2004.

Without 60 votes, this bill is pulled from the floor on a point of order, that is busts the budget.

[prolesunited]

15. Perhaps this is a better tactic

They have already painted the Dems as uncooperative and playing politics with the people's business. If they went with the filibuster, it would have been cast as more of the same.

By doing it this way, he is actually forcing the Repugs to vote in favor of busting the budget. Can you imagine that — the GOP having to say the want to create more debt. Whose the party of big spenders now? :evilgrin:

If it plays out right, this is VERY shrewd.

[Egnever]

18. Agreed! Make the pugs vote for driving the country further into debt

This is very crafty indeed. My hopes are renewed!

[xray s]

29. Driving the country into debt to line the pockets of HMO's and Big Pharma

Bush probably added another dozen Pioneers to the fold today. The Bush administration has sold out the true fiscal conservatives like McCain to pad his warchest and make his buddies rich.

That is the real story of this bill. The billions of taxpayers money going into politically connected inefficient private insurance plans, and into Big Pharma companies. They are the only ones who truly win today.

Daschle is making sure these guys are covered thick in tar before they go home to explain this atrocity to their constituents. Watch closely, they will get as much heat from the consevatives back home as they will from the seniors who are being sold a lemon with the old bait and switch technique so beloved by this administration.

Good.

[Egnever]

11. the prescription drug bill defies budget rules..

By over spending outside of the budget and because of this it can not be enacted without changing the rules on budget spending. It forces Republicans to admit they are no longer fiscaly responsible in order to get this bill passed. I think its a smart tack. Also it requires a supermajority to waive the rules so esentially a filibuster is still in effect.

[bain_sidhe]

12. I suspect he's just doing a de-facto fillibuster

Couldn't pass the real fillibuster, so he's going to raise point of order after point of order, each one requiring two hours (at least) to resolve.

GO TOM!

(Hey, credit where it's due!)

[Hawkeye-X]

16. Yup. The 1974 Budget Act is very clear

The medicare bill will die where it is intended -- on procedural grounds, and it'll be shat upon, slapped around and the original copy of the bill (all 17,000 pages) shoved up Frist's ass for trying to steal more money for his interests (family owns HCA)

Hawkeye-X

[1songbird]

23. I hope you're right.

[Snellius]

21. I think he's trying to force the Repubs to show their true hand

The more Repubs have to try to explain this the more they will have to confess how dishonest and corrupt this bill is. Why else are they trying to rush and ram it through congress in only a couple of days? Even if the bill passes, the Repubs will have a hard time stealing the issue. It may even end up their MedIraq, a "mission accomplished" they wish they had never wished for.

[virgdem]

14. I was wondering why so many Democrats voted for cloture -

made me think that the Dems had a few tricks up their sleeves. This one is not over until the fat lady sings, and I don't hear her singing just yet. Go Dems and kill this horrible POS bill that should never have seen the light of day.

[creativelcro]

22. obviously, they did not have the votes!

[Tyler Durden]

19. Daschle many not be far left, but he's not STUPID.

When you know you're going lose cloture, you work on parliamentary procedure and rules violations.

VERY shrewd.

[creativelcro]

25. Gosh, did you see

the thickness of the book Graham just patted on ?... Who could possibly read the entire thing ??

[Silverhair]

27. Wasted effort. His Point of Order has to pass by 60 votes.

Since cloture passed by 70-29, that means that 30 senators would have to change their mind. This party is over.

[creativelcro]

28. I thought it was the other way around... 10 senators...

[Tatiana]

30. Not necessarily...

Eleven Senators would only have to agree to enforce procedural rules, otherwise they would have to then change the rules.

[creativelcro]

32. the other side needs 60 votes.

We only need 40. Boxer made it clear. So, only 11 additional people have to vote NO.

[bain_sidhe]

43. No... not wasted... gives cover to

Senators who might not want the bill, but are afraid to vote against it. Voting for the point of order is a vote to enforce the budget resolution. It's completely different from voting against the Medicare "prescription drug benefit" (translation, "steal from Gram and Gramps to enrich drug companies and HMOs")

[dweller]

31. Boxer up now

busts the budget by giving away millions $ to HMO's & pharma cos.
we're willing to spend money for the seniors, not to the others who don't need it...
dp

[creativelcro]

33. Boxer could barely lift the darn thing!!!

[MoonAndSun]

34. There is so much I do not know about how the Senate is run.

but obviously Frist "The Majority Leader" doesn't either. Daschle is doing something that I thought was not possible, actually trying to stop a repuke runaway train. Color me shocked but very impressed. Let's hope the Dems can do this and have the Medicare "crap" put downt the toilet where it belongs.

[maddezmom]

35. now pRick S up

:puke: don't what he's saying cuz he's on mute.

[creativelcro]

37. He's crying unfair

'cause the cloture vote already happened and Dems are still using procedural obstruction...

[in_cog_ni_to]

36. Santorum......."This is tantamount to a filibuster."

Man I hope so! GO DEMS!!!! :bounce:

[creativelcro]

38. They did not complain

when the HOUSE stole the vote a few nights ago...

[in_cog_ni_to]

40. No shit.

They're such h a bunch of hypocrites!

[in_cog_ni_to]

39. "You're either for this bill or you're not for this bill."

Santorum is such a whiny ass bastard. I hope the Dems cram that bill right where it belongs! Down the throat or up the behinds of the republicans!

[KayLaw]

41. My Goodness!

Santorum sure is upset. It's hard to listen because he keeps repeating himself.

[DemBones DemBones]

44. This is great! It shows the importance of

parliamentary procedure in Congress and other large organizations. Most of us laugh at parliamentary procedure in our club meetings but that's because club members all pretty much agree with each other. (But what are the exceptions in club unanimity? Expenditures! Money always matters.)

Nickles is up now, referring to Daschle as "the Democrat leader." I'm so sick of that grammatically incorrect meme of theirs. :grr:

[DemBones DemBones]

45. Durbin connects the dots of United Health Care to AARP!

Newt Gingrich was tied into Golden Rule Insurance (an Illinois company)
which has been bought out by United Health Care, which is tied to AARP, i.e.
GOP pays off buddies in insurance industry AGAIN!

It's complicated so I'll replay it on TiVo and transcribe it.

[creativelcro]

46. Reps are cracking...

Grassle made a stupid comments about the exact number of pages in the bill!... is that the best argument they have??

[creativelcro]

47. they are voting on the P.O.O. soon