What will happen to us when a candidate is chosen?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

I am not asking people to post mantras proclaiming ANYONE BUT BUSH. That is the easy part. The hard part is dissecting how one reconciles their virulent opposition to a candidate of their own party with their knowledge that if they don't support or promote that candidate Bush is guaranteed to win.

For myself, I can consider the examples of Gephardt or Lieberman. Their PRESENT behavior in the party has caused me consternation. The only place I could go to is their past to reconcile for myself why I would throw my support behind them.

But..as a community whose sole existence was created out of a desire to reclaim what was taken from us in 2000...what will you do when the candidate you wanted isn't chosen and the one whose character and record you slaughtered is?

How will you reconcile that?

What will you do?

[_Jumper_]

1. I like them all

I will do everything possible to help the nominee win. However, if we elect a candidate who ranks near the bottom in electability I will be dissapointed, althought I will still fight the uphill battle.

[greatauntoftriplets]

2. Probably not say much, as I have done on the candidates of late.

In other words, I will keep my counsel.

[DuctapeFatwa]

3. People who don't like who the corporations choose will post other places

and if they do post here, it will be stuff about yaks and whatnot.

They have already decreed that once the money boys pick a sweetie it will be forbidden to criticize said sweetie.

I guess people can post news stories..

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

29. yep

I think you pretty much nailed it.

[Julien Sorel]

4. I didn't slaughter anyone's character.

They did it themselves. So the blame here is placed incorrectly.


I've already said I won't vote for Dean under any circumstances, and he reinforces that nearly every time he opens his mouth, so if he gets the nomination, I'll be gone from this place. Probably do me some good, anyway, as I waste too much time here as it is, and reading the posts of some of the, to be frank, liars who infest this place sickens me, especially when you can't call them what they are.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Julien Sorel]

7. An example of someone who has to be referred

to as a 'multi-purpose excavation tool' instead of a spade.

[_NorCal_D_]

17. Ah, Closer

you do not realize the enormity of BB's statements.
Dean is a very polarizing figure. If he were to get the nomination, it may mean a mass exodus from the Democratic Party.

1. A+ NRA rating.
   
2. State's rights.
   
3. Libertarian/Centrist in many respects.
   

This man does not represent me. Does he represent you?

[mdmc]

31. What if your man Clark asked him to veep for him?

Clark / Dean 2004... Would you still be so upset?

[_NorCal_D_]

49. No

I am very much ABB, however I can't say the same for other Clark supporters.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

11. Whoa! I'm not placing blame

there's poison on every candidate. I am simply asking how it will wash. Really? YOu won't vote for Dean? Will you leave the top slot blank? or vote for Bush? Third party?

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bearfartinthewoods]

46. more "Deleted message" i bet

and we'll punch walls. get drunk or go for long walks and scream at trees.

then we go out and work our butts off, coming back here only, i hope, to get the lastest talking points and some encouragement, and then back out to battle again.

i hope everyone is staking out some battlefield turf now. it's good to know the terrain ahead of time. where do people meet and gather? where can you engage people in coversations without looking like a nutcase? a weighted, rhetorical question from a familiar face is worth an hour of speech-a-fying.

[Julien Sorel]

19. Perhaps blame was too strong, but it was close.

what will you do when the candidate you wanted isn't chosen and the one whose character and record you slaughtered is?

As for what I would do, I hate Dean and Bush about equally. I merely disliked Bush, and wondered why he thought he was qualified to be president, until after the election, when it became obvious he was willing to subvert democracy in order to gain office. I have zero doubt that Dean would do the same thing were he in Bush's position in 2000.

There are lots of people here who accuse Bush of stealing the election who would be absolutely delighted if a Democrat did the same thing. Add it all up, and it makes me simply want to get out of this country, but since I'm stuck here by golden handcuffs, and soon, age, I'll probably write in someone innocuous, as the minor parties also leave me cold. This is really a shitty time for this country politically speaking, unfortunately. The Democrats apparently have to have their Goldwater moment, while the Republicans have become absolutely ruthless. Those of us with higher expectations from our political process than what we're seeing are likely in for a tough 10 years or so.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

25. I feel that pain

BTW..I didn't get to see the deleted message..was it good?

[Julien Sorel]

26. I didn't see it either.

It probably came from one of the Kool-aid crew, so you likely didn't miss anything.

[11 Bravo]

28. And what are those of us who lack your moral clarity

and ideological purity to do? Sit out the election? If anyone wants to know how the Repubs came to occupy the House, Senate, White House, and the majority of statehouses in this nation; they have only to read your posts. It is precisely this type of internecine bullshit which has thrust an otherwise unelectable moron into the Presidency. Please, sleep tight. Dream the uncluttered dreams available only to those possessed of the certainty afforded to zealots and cretins. As for me, ABB, baby.

[Zhade]

54. There's no accusation about Bush stealing the election. He DID steal it.

NT!

[slinkerwink]

53. good----don't let the door hit you on the way out

;-)

[whirlygigspin]

63. funny, I was just thinking the same,but opposite about Clark

I know you don't like Dean personally--

but I like the fact that he's trying to empower people,not himself.
You can call it a gimmick, but he seems sinsere, for that I support
him. I don't know what Clark is trying to empower, and I don't
like the military in control of governments, it's just a viewpoint
thing.

I think we all need a little air, maybe take a break for a while.
So I'm gonna go to the beach now and get some sun and hope you will do something similar.

You know, when all this is said and done, it's the voter who decides,
so don't get upset too much, wave your flag, hug your kids and hope they don't grow up to be republicans.

We really don't need four more years of kick the poor, slap the fag, shoot me some ragheads, kiss my bible,corporate welfare lovin' Texas macho bullshit motherfucker driving us all nuts and ruining our economy. Do we?

[forgethell]

6. It is to be hoped that

we can all pull together. However, there will be immense archival footage that Bush & Friends will be using to discredit whoever the candidate actually is, thoughtfully supplied by his now friends.

I worry for us, Ireally do.

[Cleita]

8. I for one will be happy to look in on GD

and not have to read that my candidate, avoided the draft, wants to privatize Social Security, wasn't born in a one room shack after which his mother got up to finish doing the laundry she was taking in, doesn't wear shirts that fit, wears shirts that fit too well, is too short, is too tall, has a short temper, doesn't speak up and has no temper, and so on. I will be delighted even if it is you-know-who.

Why? Because the election is about more than the candidates. It's about saving our country and the world from some very evil people.

[mydawgmax]

9. Get over and on with it.

I was a strong Bradley supporter in 2000 and really really hated Gore by the time the primaries was over. I thought Gore had run a pretty savage and not entirely honest campaign against Bradley. That being said, I was able to come around and focus on what was important -- beating Bush. I think there are a fair number of Bradley supporters out there who felt that way about Gore and were able to put the primaries behind them. No candidate is perfect, and they are all fighting hard for the nomination and unfortunately it will get ugly. If my candidate (Kerry) doesent get the nomination, I plan to take a little time, and get over and on with it which means working for the dem nominee, whoever that is.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

12. Thanks for the post and welcome to DU

that's pretty much my plan as well. BTW..I've always admired Kerry. I felt for a while as though he didn't seem to want it bad enough. I'd love to see him debate Bush.

[Capn Sunshine]

22. That's where I'm at

while a fervent worker for Howard Dean, I could accomodate another candidate enough to vote against the BFEE. I'm a party guy. Which many seem to forget,is the POINT of this whole excercise.

I've worked with Kerry before; I could do that. I'm friendly with many in the Clark campaign, I know a few from the Clinton alumni group. I could work for anyone. Any nominated democrat.ANY.

But I would welcome those who want to leave here; this place would be better off without them if they are a one trick pony and intent on calling everyone who does not buy their take on their candidate "Liars"

But seriously, I'll work for the nominee. Even in the unlikely event he's someone other than Howard Dean.
The HIGHLY unlikely event.

[JNelson6563]

24. Funny how I always seem to agree

with you Cap'n. And a big Hear!! Hear!! on the farewell-to-some sentiments!!

Julie

[David Zephyr]

21. Welcome to the DU, Mydawgmax!

And I think you have expressed how many of us will react. We'll "get over it" and then work, as you say, "for the dem nominee, whoever that is." :hi:

[_NorCal_D_]

27. I agree

If someone besides Clark received the nomination, I would call on all disenfranchised Clark supporters to back the nominee. This election is just too important to sit out. B-)

[newyawker99]

45. Hi mydawgmax!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Some Moran]

10. Salvation or destruction for us all...

I'm not sure I'm looking forward to the DU fallout of the end of the primaries.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

13. If Dean gets the nod

I will focus my efforts on state and local races and hold my nose and vote for Dean in November. And hope he governs according to his rhetoric and not his record. The organizational and GOTV efforts involved in working at the state level will help the nominee, no matter who it is, so I still feel like I'd be fighting the good fight. But I just can't see me mouthing words I don't believe.

Gephardt, Lieberman -- neither of them have a chance so it's moot.

Asbestos suit on.

[FubarFly]

62. That's a very good response.

I'm glad to see that you have a constructive alternative planned out.

I would also do the same while voting for Kerry, but I would hope that he does the opposite- governs according to his record, not his rhetoric.

Go figure.

[_NorCal_D_]

15. Good question

I would be fairly comfortable with any candidate receiving the nomination except Dean. If Dean does get the nomination :scared:, I will probably take a long vacation from DU until around election day.

However this doesn’t mean I will not be voting for him. B-)

[LWolf]

16. I will support him against Bush.

Whoever he is. I'm human; I don't want to see a candidate I don't personally like, trust, agree with, etc. get the nomination. But I'm not stupid nor suicidal. When the time comes, I'll be a fervent supporter of the democratic nominee in the interests of evicting the pretender.

[David Zephyr]

18. A Question That We All Need to Consider...Seriously.

Thank you for bringing this question to us all, NSMA!

While merely contemplating a second term for George W. Bush immediately reconciles any misgivings I may have about any of the Democratic Candidates, I will be frank and admit that it will be far easier, in my case, to accept any of the contenders who have opposed the War in Iraq than those who supported it.

[mzmolly]

dup

*

[mzmolly]

20. I'll work for the nominee...

PERIOD.

[Nashyra]

23. I too will work for the nominee

Period. I just hope it is my first second or 3rd choice.

[Lorien]

30. I'll vote my conscious

I cannot consciously sit by while Bushco continues to destroy the environment, wage wars for profit, steal from the working class, erode our healthcare and educational systems, strip us of our civil liberties, and piss on the constitution. Not working for the dem nominee or voting third party WOULD be "sitting by" as far as I'm concerned. I'll work to exhaustion for whomever the democratic party nominates; I could not conciously betray my country or the planet with anything less.

[mdmc]

32. yeah, me too

:dem: no one out there is all bad

[Kenneth ken]

33. for me

there is nothing to reconcile.

I purposely avoid criticizing any of the candidates. I did once slam a Clark supporter (before Clark announced his candidacy - or even his party affiliation) for what I thought was a terrible post, but I subsequently apologized for that.

Other than that, I am still trying to fully embrace the ABB idea in regard to a couple candidates, but at least I won't have to retract any prior invective.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

35. Yeah so far I've stayed out of the thick of it

I have had specific issues with things specific candidates have done ..but I am not firmly in anyone's camp yet.

Happy Thanksgiving KK!

[Ksec]

34. We will all come together

if we dont kill each other first :)

[creativelcro]

37. I'll vote for whomever gets the Dem nomination

[David Zephyr]

36. Bump!

:kick:

[fairfaxvadem]

38. To semi-quote the First Democrat, Ben Franklin....

We must hang together or we will certainly hang separately...

I think that sentiment is more than appropriate for this timely topic. The primaries and caucuses will be over before we know it so most of us need to get prepared for disappointment, and then find something in the Dem Candidate they can get behind.

If beating Shrub is your first goal, and it should be I think, then this shouldn't be too difficult for most of us.

As for me, I'd vote for any one of the current crop, some I would have to hold my nose for, I admit, but I'd do it.

Folks, four more years of Bush/Cheney is not an option here.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

40. This post is why you need to make sure you check in more

We need MORE of these.

[fairfaxvadem]

42. thanks, that's awfully nice of you...

and i will be posting more as this semester comes to a close.

But I get a little distressed over the arguments over candidates I see posted. I probably have issues with ALL of them, but nothing to warrant any serious rant against any of them here.

[Hippo_Tron]

39. Well...

The candiate will be quite far from perfect and for many of us will not be our first choice. Yet when you look at it he's still much better than Bush. We will still continue to counter Republican arguments that say Bush is better than the democratic candidate because the truth is he's worse than any of them in comparison.

[fairfaxvadem]

41. all I ask of the Candidate, and the Veep Candidate...

Is that they take these clowns to the woodshed in the debates. I know these things are rigged, slanted, whatever, but they need to ignore that crap and just go for the jugular (juggular?? no dictionary close by, sorry)...I know there is a lot more to the campaign then the debates, but we need some major eye candy for the American people.

My fantasy is to be in charge of the Democratic message machine next year. Oh, the things I would come up with...I am totally okay with Negative Campaigning.

The happy part of it is that you don't have to make any stuff up. The truth is scary enough...

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

43. "The truth is scary enough..."

That is SO true. The facts alone on the war, Enron, Wilsongate, etc. should CAN them..now we have a medicare bill which is a HUGE giveaway to the VERY PEOPLE who brought you healthcare costs that outpaced inflation by a ridiculous margin that will further drain it dry.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

44. kick

[MasonJar]

47. Any body but Bush n/t

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

48. one more

:kick:

[Selwynn]

50. You bit the bullet., support the lesser or 2 evils, then work ....

for party change internal to the Dem party in the next four years.

[Zynx]

51. The nominee gets my full support no matter who it is.

No chance I will vote for Bush. No chance I will vote Green.

[GreenPartyVoter]

52. I will still vote dem

just to spite Bu$h.

And I will flood said Dem's Oval office with letters about election reform. (If it's Dean or Kucinich, there will be an open ear to hear me. Not sure how the other folks stand on the issue.)

[Lisa0825]

55. I am ABB to the core...

I am a Dean supporter, contributer, and volunteer. I don't have anything against any of the candidates (except Lieberbush), beyond their campaign tactics. I would vote even for Lieberman if he was what we had against Bush, but I think Sharpton is more likely than him.

I recently talked to a Dem leader for my county, and when he found out I supported Dean, he had a series of questions for me including: 1)Have I ever been involved in politics before beyond voting (no) and 2) what will I do if Dean doesn't get the nom (take time to mourn, then get up and work my ass off for whoever DOES get it). I pledged to him that I will never be politically passive again, and that includes NOW, regardless of the nominee.

I really believe Dean can win. I think Clark *could* win, but I don't feel the same energy and inspiration from him. I don't give anyone elsemuch chance of winning, but i will absolutely vote for whoever runs against Bush!

[cally]

56. I doubt this will surprise anyone

but I will support any Dem nominee. I firmly support one candidate but I respect and support all. It won't be that hard for me to transfer my loyalties to the nominee. I've already had to mourn Gore not running, I'll survive the next round.

[Dr Fate]

57. There are many things I respect about each candidate...

...it will not be an issue for me...

[Dulcinea]

58. There is no such thing as a perfect candidate.

We're voting for human beings here, not some ideal.

I will fully support whoever gets the nomination & will encourage others to do so as well. Boy George & his posse of angry, greedy old men have to go by any means necessary.

[JohnKleeb]

59. All will be good mostly I think

I hope it will. Yes I plan to support the nominee. Cant vote too young as you know or may not know. I think it will be good honestly. Heh hopefully some civility in here and the road to liberation from Bush will begin.

[Eloriel]

60. I'll probably have to give up DU

There is no one likely to be nominated (other than Dean) who I can feel good about in any way. Once we have a nominee, Skinner will impose that "no bashing" (or whatever he calls it) rule, I'll have to stifle my sorrow and despair under that rule. That won't work for me.

i do have to take exception to this comment from you, NSMA:

when the candidate you wanted isn't chosen and the one whose character and record you slaughtered is

You're saying that it's inappropriate for anyone to point out the unflattering FACTS or our disdainful OPINIONS about other candidates? We should just be Pollyannas?

I'm hoping you composed that in haste.

Eloriel

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

66. I think there is a very big difference between challenging ACTUAL

events and making up/ adding to actual events in order to slaughter one's character. I have had my criticism and issues with some of the candidates myself. I think it is for each of us to look at what we do.

No I never said anything about unflattering FACTS (the key word being facts)

I didn't compose it in haste. There are facts and there is crap. Distinguishing between the two is important.

[SOteric]

61. I'm not sure I'm included in your question, but that's never stopped me

from giving opinion before and I don't see why it should stop me from giving opinion now.

I have not been participating in the great candidate-bash and mudslinging festival.

In fact, I have not yet publicly or firmly come out in favour of any one specific candidate. This is not because I'm wishy-washy. For the sake of Skinner's straw poll earlier this year I went with the candidate I was leaning toward most heavily at the time.

I have a short list of three candidates I would be happiest with. In truth I will stand behind pretty much any Democrat on the ballot. You'll note I said "pretty much." I don't consider myself ABB. I don't have a candidate I'm going to bash at this moment, so all you candidate loyalists who might be sufficiently bored as to be reading this far down in the thread can untwist your knickers now.

At this point in my examination of the candidates, there isn't a glaring misstep any of the candidates has made that would cause me to completely rule them out. I leave the space in my declaration for ABB because in the short experience of my life the better part of wisdom and my combined life lessons have too often presented a new variation of the old saw "out of the frying pan, into the fire." And perhaps not without reason, those life lessons always seem to be delivered in close proximity to the utterance of the phrase "nothing could be worse than this."

Yeah, I'm verbose. Sue me.

So rather than commit to any candidate, I insist on intense scrutiny. I conceive it possible that there could be someone worse than Bush and that someone could possible be running as a Democrat. History is resplendent in example of incompetent and perfidious rulers, even if few were American presidents. And a time when so many Americans are deeply disappointed in the administration is a time ripe for a desperate population to vote in a candidate without intense scrutiny.

What disappoints me most in all the poo-flinging that goes on in this forum with regard to candidates is that one cannot scrutinise a candidate with that level of exacting detail while engaged in loyalist behaviour.

I'm not ready for the tin-foil hat, but I intend to vote with my eyes wide open.

Okay, I've said my piece. You can go back to your turkey sandwiches and martinis.

[whirlygigspin]

64. put down the cool aid and walk away from the computer

go outside and take a walk, get some air.

that's an order from general cool aid Clark himself.

[SOteric]

65. I don't take orders.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

68. I do

Ya want fries with that? :D

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

67. Of course you are included in my question

I'm pretty much where you are. I have my favorites. SOme of them are NOT everyone else's favorites. I *could* vote for any of them but have specific issues with each of them. It is true that if you take what YOU value and compare it with the candidate's record (particularly some very popular ones) and post about it, you may as well be sticking your hand in a blender for the post lashing you will get for it (not that I care too much)

I venture more into P and C and read or I read the actual articles or follow the actual links.

My favorite candidate has already dropped out ( was Graham) so I am NOT very optimistic about this election simply because the man who had MORE qualifications than MOST of the other candidates ( been a Senator, been a governor of a LARGE state, served on Senate Intelligence, Voted AGAINST IWR) just wasn't SEXY enough to the powers that be to raise anyone's interest....that concerns me.

[Armstead]

69. Would support but with fatalism and will try and look at the Big Picture

Well, since ABB is really the issue at this point, I have to day I'd support Daffy Duck if he were the Democratic nominee.

But on a personal level, I'll feel fatalist and frustrated if it becomes another non-issues campaign in 04. I don't see it merely as Democrat vs. GOP, but as the need for a more fundamental housecleaning and change in direction. If the Democrats decide to follow a tepid centrist strategy, I'll trry and remember the non-political aspects of all of this to keep my spirits up.

Here's my own preferences and why, because it is relevant to your question.

Dean -- He's a moderate who "gets it." He's not as clearly liberasl as Kucinich, and I worry he may pander and become a Clinton centrist down the road. But in general, I think he has been listening to the left, taking the liberals and progressives into account. And I think his plain spoken style and bullishness is what we need in terms of personal qualities.

Kucinich -- My sentimental favorite. He's been a terrible candidate, he has no chance of winning. But his views and his heart are closest to mine. He is what I think the Democratic Party ought to stand for. Depiste his New Age trappings, he is basically the mix of realism and idealism that used to be what was considered Mainstream Liberal.

Those are the two who really resonate with me. (I've been impressed by Sharpton and Braun, but Sharpton is Sharpton and Braun has too many skeletons to be a ground breaker as a serious candidate.)

As for the rest...

I could support Gephardt easily, and think he might be the strongest candidate ultimately, if he continues to be more outspoken. Edwards would make a great VP or Attorney General, and with a little more seasoning a presidential candidate down the road -- but I could support him in the top spot this year. I have mixed and ambiguous feelings about Clark. Kerry is a pretty good Senator but he's been a disaster in this campaign, and I think he'd be a sure ticket to defeat in the general. Joe Lieberman I would grudgingly support only on the ABB theory, but with many clothespins in my nose.