If Dean isn't the Democratic Presidential Candidate...

[ProudToBeLiberal]

are you voting green? or not at all? I think I truly became a "democrat" because of Howard Dean. If it wasn't for him I still probably been a little more conservative.

[wyldwolf]

1. Not sure of your point...

Dean is a centrist and nothing like a green.

[billbuckhead]

2. NRA, ConFlag, Cato institute, Dean is all over the place

:D

[cavebat2000]

3. Hes not all over

Hes a centrist. Meaning he takes some liberal view points and some conservative. And just to remind people, America will not elect a far left, since most of america is in the middle. Dean is our best chance, by far.

[DrFunkenstein]

4. It's Not How Far Left The Ideas, It Is How Polarizing Is The Message

You can be pretty far to either extreme and people will be pretty forgiving if it is presented right. Bush is a great example. He is far to the right, but he makes it seem palatable.

Which is why I would rather have a progressive who seems centrist than a centrist who seems progressive. And I think Americans will be much more open to the same.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

9. progressive who seems centrist instead of a centrist who seems progressive

That's what I want too. After all, we elected Reagan, who was far right wing but packaged it in an appealing image.

[JNelson6563]

10. yeah, "this war is wrong"

"Bush sucks" and "Bush enablers suck" are so polarizing.

At least that's what my Republican friends tell me.

Julie

[MercutioATC]

17. Actually, I disagree...

I think Bush is very polarizing right now. He wasn't when he campaigned because he campaigned as a "compassionate conservative". Only after he was elected did his spots change.

The 2000 election was obviously quite close. Had Bush actually campaigned as he's governed, I believe he would have lost, precisely because he would have been seen as less of a "centrist" and further to the right.

[wyldwolf]

8. If Dean is our best chance, by far...

...then why does he run behind Clark and Kerry in head to head match-ups with Bush?

[AmericanDem]

12. By whos standards?

my standards say Clark is.

[arewethereyet]

18. my standards say Edwards is

Dean and Clark have a lot of weak spots that the right can exploit

[Closer]

5. Wow

this thread is already becoming a magnet for the most VILE Dean haters.

Just like flies on sh*t

:hi:

[ProudToBeLiberal]

6. lol

[Padraig18]

7. LOL!

They just had their club meeting.

[JNelson6563]

11. but don't blame them

see it's cause people are such meanies to their candidates!! This is the whine served daily when called on hate-mongering dialogue. Oh and if it gets real personal watch 'em scurry behind the claim they never make personal attacks, they just state unpleasant facts. ;-)

Brave little soldiers in the hate-mongering-fests.

Julie

[ozone_man]

13. If not Dean, maybe Kucinich

or a suitable Green candidate. I don't see another dem that I like.

Maybe we will see the merging of the democratic party with the republican party, since it's headed that way (DLC), and then a separate party will be born. Or, maybe Dean will win and restore the democratic party to something respectable again.

[Capn Sunshine]

14. Read up on the Dean Mystique

in Will Pits qusetion thread. Now, if he doesnt get the nom, I'll be quite surpirsed, but hardly crushed. Still have to work like a dog to defeat Bush with whomever the nominee is.

Defeat Bush. Defeat Bush. Defeat Bush.

THIS is the ultimate goal, not aggrandizement of the candidate.
ABB, baby.

[John_H]

15. Dean's agenda isn't remotely similar to the Green's

The greens are for public financing. Dean is an expert money raiser. The Greens are for income capping. Dean believes in the free market. The greens are for nationalizing the fortune 500. Dean is for regulating, not "placing under public copntrol" companies. And the list goes on and on....

[Skwmom]

20. Dean has been called a "Rockefeller Republican" for good

reason. I beginning to think that the Repubs can't lose with Dean. If Dean is the nominee, either way they will have a Republican in office. The irony of this is so rich. Dean's idea of a New Democrat is a Republican/Democrat. Based on what I've read about him, he would really enjoy ridiculing and beating up on the liberal Democrats in Congress.

[arewethereyet]

16. of likely candidates Clark is the only one that concerns me

I just have too many reservations about him, not sure what I'd do about it and I'm hoping I won't have to figure it out.

[FrenchieCat]

21. Maybe you should read this....

http://www.ospolitics.org/usa/archives/2003/11/26/how_i_beca.php

November 26, 2003
How I became a Clark supporter
By Mark A.R. Kleiman

My support for Clark has not come naturally. I'm a partisan and liberal Democrat, no great lover of old Clinton staffers and smug New Democrats. I'm prone to value experience in democratic politics over the hierarchical values of military service. And when I heard that Clark had voted for Reagan, praised Bush, spoken at a Lincoln Day dinner, and said that he'd have been a Republican had Karl Rove returned his calls (no, I don't believe that he was joking -- though he may have been trying for sarcasm), I judged him an amoral opportunist and borderline con artist. In angry e-mails to a pro-Clark friend, I called the general an "ambipartisan" and summarized the Lincoln Day revelation as "Game Over."

But I figured I owed the largely unknown candidate a chance. Being a professor, I decided to read his book, Winning Modern Wars. After finishing it, I figured out what Clark is about, and why his candidacy is both baffling and compelling.
Sabl teaches political philosophy in the Department of Policy Studies at UCLA.

read the rest.....

[arewethereyet]

25. OK I read it...

...its worse than I thought.

And if you can't see just how scary it is that the general thinks that the low income folks in his command are doig OK because the Army "ensures basic living standards and adequate opportunities for all" then I worry for you. Do a little reading, enlisted men live below the poverty level, the housing provided is in such poor condition that it could not be comercially rented, they get ONE set of uniforms and have to buy the others and pay to have them cleaned and pressed.

And thats just Army stuff he should be expected to know about.

This guy is a trainwreck.

[Cascadian]

19. Even if Dean doesn't get the nomination....

I still think it would be unwise right now to front a third party candidate, but I honestly think Dean is the right man and should get the nomination fair and square. If it were Kerry or Gepahrdt, I would hold my nose, but I honestly think they would not win against Bush.

John

[Gringo]

22. Your post is confusing.

You're "proud to be liberal", Dean made you into a dem, without him you would have been more conservative, but you think Disappointed Deanies would vote green?

A. Dean is a total centrist, so I don't know how he could have made anyone "more liberal".

B. If Dean doesn't get the nomination, I will gladly vote for ANY of the other candidates, except for Joseph Lieberman. I'll bet most Deanies feel the same, even those who were/are Greens. They realize the absolute necessity of getting Dumbya OUT of the White House.

[Beaker]

23. "...we may actually have a shot at winning."

nt

[RamboLiberal]

24. I don't understand how anyone can vote Green this time

All you'll ensure is 4 more years of Bush! Geez. I'd like to see Dean or Clark get the Dem nod - but no matter who ends up the nominee I'm going in that voting booth and pulling the Dem lever. It's the only way we have a chance of evicting Bush.

Flame away, but anyone who votes Green for President in this election is a naive idiot.