What do DUers REALLY focus on?

[jpgray]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=786963&mesg_id=786963

Here's a "let me be a public servant and bring out this 'interesting' fact about a candidate I don't support!" thread, or as I call it, the "concerned voter camouflage-bash":

Dean's Governorship of a population 608,000

http://www.vtliving.com/stats/

I thought it was important to get this info out and put things into perspective. Dean governed Vermont a population of 608,827. From my understanding he holds little if any experience in world affairs. This man now is trying to seak power to our highest office to look over and protect the worlds #1 superpower. This does make me take a step back.

Vermonts population is smaller then many cities in the USA.

In my opinion, the primary goal of this thread is to tweak Dean supporters and to draw them into a lengthy and largely pointless debate. It has succeeded--the thread now reaches 255 replies.

Now, on the flipside, here is a 5 page article on wounded soldiers that I would consider a must-read for all of us who are concerned about Iraq policy--this is an important glimpse of the crushing cost of the war:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=23262

Facing the Horrific Every Day (Army Hospital Baghdad)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20034-2003Nov28.html

<snip>

Since the largest U.S. Army hospital in Iraq opened its doors on April 10, nearly all U.S. casualties have passed through its first-floor emergency room. Some come already dead. Some arrive with one arm instead of two, a shattered leg or a face wiped away by an explosion.

Assaults on U.S. troops have numbered as many as 45 a day in recent weeks. For the staff at the 28th Combat Support Hospital, located within the U.S.-led occupation authority's headquarters at one of former president Saddam Hussein's palaces, that translates into a dozen patients some days. Twenty-four hours in the hospital's emergency room with soldiers stripped of their uniforms and gritty exteriors revealed the physical and emotional toll.

About 70 percent of the hospital's patients are wounded soldiers; the rest are Iraqi civilians and prisoners, along with a small number of U.S. civilian contractors, said Maj. Mark White, director of patient administration.

The number of soldiers treated for serious combat injuries is not publicly disclosed. Instead, the hospital releases statistics on patient admissions -- a total of 1,659 U.S. soldiers through Oct. 30. The combined number of U.S. soldiers and Iraqi patients admitted per month has increased since September, and this month was expected to reach about 400, White said.

<snip>

The worst that Maj. Michael Hilliard, 33, an emergency physician, saw back home in San Antonio were car crash and gunshot victims. Here, he estimates that he has treated the broken bodies of more than 1,000 U.S. soldiers.

"The injuries are horrific," he said. "They are beyond anything that you see in a textbook, and they are the worst that I have ever seen."

This thread has 6 replies. Only six. Which thread deserves more replies? I wonder how many will answer.

edit: I would like to add that the last thing I want to do is have a "holier than thou" attitude--we all are susceptible to the sucking power of the argument threads. I myself have to consciously avoid them, or I could spend all my time arguing with people inside, never getting any closer to victory, but never truly getting defeated either.

[slinkerwink]

1. obviously the thread about soldiers needs more replies....

but flame fests seem to dominate GD....

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. I would change your title to

"What do DU'ers REALLY focus on" or it will end up locked as someone will mistake this valuable post as flame bait.

[jpgray]

3. All right, I will edit the title. (nt)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. Soldiers, of course

Flaming a candidate and replying (or replying to an obvious freeper post) doesn't really do anything except waste time and bandwidth. I enjoy DU because it cites sources and presents facts. What I'd like to see is all Dems finding good things to say about other Dems, and find the flaws in the GOP and plot strategies to get out the truth about the attempt to take over the country by the extreme right wing. Frankly, when I see an obvious freeper post, I punch alert and don't respond. When I see a flamefest against a candidate, I simply don't read the posts and move on to better things.

[creativelcro]

8. I agree with this assessment

all I can do is keep adding to my Ignore list. Some users start threads with the purpose of provoking people. After 2 incidents they are on my Ignore list since generally they do not contribute anything valuable.

[JohnKleeb]

5. People like to fight sad reality

:(
My postive posts on Kucinich in politics/campaigns often go nowhere because of fightin.

[blm]

6. and you are absolutely correct...

the hijacking of our values as a Democratic party. We've resorted to accepting personality and spin over our regard for truth and records and actions.

[Nazgul35]

7. Notice that you are talking about...

different forums.

1) Many people don't visit all the forums

2) Many people will actually read the other thread without adding comment...perhaps a tag that counts how many read a post is needed...

3) I would assume that everyone here is all in agreement about how horrible the war is...so you are unlikely to get a thread with alot of people arguing with each other...

I wouldnt make assumptions about what is going on at DU without having all the facts, which none of us have...take it with a grain of salt...

[jpgray]

9. Your points are taken

But I wanted to use it as an example of where the focus of energy is. For example there is a thread in GD currently that has a DUer's conversation with a Marine that just returned home. I find that to be infintely more valuable than a thread that somehow ties the population of a state to the political ability of its governor.

And yes, I am sure argument drives a thread to that number of replies, but I would say why put all that energy into a place that doesn't really deserve it?

[Nazgul35]

10. Having read these posts...

and others....it is apparant that there is a crowd of usual suspects that drive the threads...

And judging from the exchange, there's not much of intellegence or maturity involved in most of it...

But you point is well taken, but I would suggest that this is a human problem, and not a DU problem...look at what makes it to the TV every night....

[jpgray]

11. You're right; luckily nsma gave good advice on changing the title (nt)

[Pastiche423]

12. What can DUers do

about the injured troops?

There really isn't anything we can do, besides fight for a candidate that will end the occupation.

When I read a thread about the dead and injured troops, I feel helpless and hopeless.

I believe that is the reason many read, but do not post.

[JohnKleeb]

15. Thats a good theory

I hope they can come home honestly. Sigh I am nervous about there being a war in the next adminstration, I really am, war no matter whether the one who starts it is a dem or repug doesnt matter to me. Thats why I am a potential pacifist/Kucinich supporter. I am afraid of war, like if this occupation continues, people my age will be sent over there, sigh times when you wonder why you should give a damn, I tell you why I care, its our future, I dont want the guys I grew up with suffering. I cant be drafted due to a heart condition but I'll be damned if war continues.

[jpgray]

17. I probably didn't put forth my message very clearly

Or maybe I did so in a rude way--"go read the posts that are important to me!" If that's the impression, I apologize. But I think that candidate threads of this type are NOT very helpful when it comes to honest depictions of views and experience, because they so often lead to the same old fights that haven't really stopped since the primaries picked up. If two sides watn to fight, all one has to do is provide a biased look at one candidate's record, and then the other side will predictably come and the two will fight for as long as there are willing posters. That state of affairs is what bothers me, the energy being placed in an argument that will have no outcome and cannot be won by either side. The only reason ti keep it up is if one enjoys the argument, and of course we all do at one time or another.

[JohnKleeb]

18. I hate the fighting too JP

Goddamn despise it.

[loudnclear]

13. Be wary of Freepers but, I have noticed that serious posts to garner

some kind of real action from our family of DUers go almost unnoticed with few responses. What's that all about?

[jpgray]

19. Well, there are exceptions--BBV, for example gets many replies

But yes, I would rather some of those activist threads got more attention than the candidate threads. ESPECIALLY those that ask for people to call their Senator or congressperson, since I would guess more posters complain about bills that pass with Democratic votes than posters actually call or fax in their opinion. There's nothing wrong with fighting for your candidate, but I think some of these arguments are better avoided.

[Turbineguy]

14. Thanks for this post

You are of course right. The death and injuries are far more important. But.....

I think most people at DU (and elsewhere!) would do something about this if they could. I think that the reason we are in Iraq is about 99.9999% due to the outcome of the 2000 election.

As long as the current administration is in the Whitehouse, this carnage will continue. The sad thing is that there is no letup looking forward.

How many more will die or be maimed before 20 January 2005?

Our task at DU (again, and elsewhere) is to make people understand that the situation in Iraq cannot be resolved by this administration. It will take a new President, who comes in with a clean record and a clean past to take corrective action.

Nobody in their right mind can expect anybody to believe anything Bush says. And so it is. Even if the Bush Administration were to come up with A Plan that would actually work, they would not be able to implement it, because the Plan would be considered more lies.

So in the context of "what can I do about this?" I think the disparity in the number of posts, while on the suface unfortunate, is not an indication that DU People do not care about this awful tragic reality.

Nobody rationalizes these casualties in any way.

[Turbineguy]

16. Sorry, my post took a while to write

and as such seems to repeat the sentiments of others. When I started, there were no replies. By the time I posted there were.

[jpgray]

20. Don't worry about it--my original post now looks pretty obnoxious to me

:)

But as a general rule, I think the pettiest battles about campaigns, the ones that will NEVER have any outcome and are more personal than anything else, are a waste of time for the people involved and for the people who read. I hope everyone can distinguish between a real argument over issues and a personality brawl, but I certainly know that the personality brawl is very sdecutive--we are all human. So don't listen to me if you think I'm saying "go read the posts I think are important! Stop talking about the candidates!" because that's not at all the message I wanted to put forth.