How do presidential candidates who advocate middle-class tax hikes usually

[_Jumper_]

...fare in the general election?

[Capn Sunshine]

1. Depends if you let the opponents frame the issue

Since a repeal of the unfair tax cuts and application of more tax friendly legislation to the middle class is what this is about.

But hey, every time you repeat that republican spin, you save them a dollar in advertising.

[_Jumper_]

10. Dollars and cents

Will the average American pay more or less in federal taxes under than Dean plan than they would under current tax legislation?

[bread_and_roses]

25. It is not Republican spin

to question/oppose this particular policy. The reason it has been debated here repeatedly is that many oppose it for legitimate reasons ranging from the electablity factor to very strongly held philosophical objections.

[Capn Sunshine]

2. CLARK IS GOING TO KEEP THE BUSH TAX STRUCTURE?

Is that waht you mean?

How errrrrrr....convenient for the upper 1%.
That general, he's a bit of all right.

[DeanIsAPitbull]

4. Have you read Clark's platform?

Quit trying to start fights.

[_Jumper_]

6. Clark wants to raise taxes on the top 2% of taxpayers

He does not believe the average American is undertaxed, though.

[flpoljunkie]

11. Kerry, Clark and Edwards all would phase out tax cut at $200,000 income.

The top 1% starts at about $345,000.

[maddezmom]

13. good plan : )

[DeanIsAPitbull]

3. I wouldnt be surprised to see Dean back off this in the GE

[_Jumper_]

5. Would that be unprecedented?

Raising taxes on average Americans is a centerpiece of his campaign. Can he renege on that and still retain sufficient credibility to win?

[DeanIsAPitbull]

7. I wouldnt say it is a centerpiece

[NewYorkerfromMass]

9. more waffling if he does.

can't have that. People can't stand waffling.

[Hep]

8. Circumventing DU rules, Lesson 1:

You can keep threads from being locked if you can use vague enough references to a candidate while still being able to engage in disrespectful misrepresentation.

Next week: When is a Personal Attack NOT a Personal Attack?

[_Jumper_]

12. This is the #1 issue regarding the Dean candidacy

Can we win by advocating a middle-class tax hike? If Dean supporters cannot defend that on DU how do you expect Dean to sell this to moderate middle-class voters?

[Hep]

14. Whose #1 issue?

And who among us is man enough to call Dean out by NAME, rather than using vagueries?

I don't need to defend Dean on DU. This is the absofrekinglute LAST place where meaningful dpolitical dialog takes place. Thanks to *cough* SOME people.

[_Jumper_]

16. Not everything is 100% about Dean

I am looking for historical examples. I know Mondale lost on a tax raising platform. Have other candidates lost on such a platform? Has any candidate actually won by advocating a tax increase on average Americans? If so, that would make me a lot less nervous about a Dean nomination.

[Hep]

20. It's not that equivocation bothers me

What bothers me is how naturally it comes to some folks.

[_Jumper_]

22. Let's not talk about what we need to do to win in 2004

Let's go back to venting anger.:eyes:

[Hep]

26. If you had an idea

I expect you would have shared it by now.

[Capn Sunshine]

19. I'm not going to defend what isn't true

Framing this this way is just a republican talking point.

Repealing a cut is not a hike on the middle class when you target the middle class with your own tax break legislation.

What is funny is pretending that we keep the present lousy tax cut and , oh, just add a hike to the top 2%?

That's everybody above 118,000 which is a policeman and a nurse married and living in LA.

So A TAX HIKE IS GOOD WHEN ITS FROM YOUR GUY?

Clark wants to raise taxes on police, nurses , and firemen? Is that what you mean?

Is he going to pay for it like Bush did, by cutting veterans benefits?

Clark wants to cut veterans benefits?

Can you see how this game is played?

[_Jumper_]

21. This is how Middle America looks at the issue

Will the average American pay more or less in federal taxes in Dean is elected?

I believe one needs to make $200,000 to be in the top 2% of income earners.

Clark is not the issue. The issue here is whether or not it is possible to convince average Americans that they should be more taxes.

[Hep]

27. The same

IF you're me. And it's fine. I, like many WELL MEANING americans (look us up, we;'re a fun bunch), realize that if we're to make our communities better, it might take a little more cash. I'm down, as long as it's being spent wisely. And with Dean, it will be.

[dansolo]

30. I thought foreign policy was the #1 issue

Isn't that why we are supposed to all run out and support Clark?

[Hep]

33. The #1 issue changes

depending on the smell of Anti Deanies shit each morning.

[_Jumper_]

35. I meant #1 liablity with Dean

Clark's primary liability is his honesty, because he can easily be painted as an ambitious opportunist.

[ramapo]

15. They lose!

Look at Mondale as prime example. Even if it is the correct policy, any candidate who tries this will be crucified.

[_Jumper_]

17. Has anyone else tried it?

If so, how did they fare?

[bluestateguy]

18. We can't win that debate

If we advocate repealing only the tax cuts for the well to do the debate can be framed on terms far more favorable terms for Democrats. By calling for repeal of all tax cuts the debate will be framed on the terms of "should middle class people have to pay more in taxes?" No matter how sensible Howard Dean's answer to that question may be, I am not confident that the American people would see it his way. The bottom line is they would pay more in taxes, and that is all they would need to hear before making up their mind.

[drfemoe]

23. Clinton won twice

Bush I promised "NO NEW TAXES" . raised 'em . and lost.

[_Jumper_]

24. Did Clinton advocate middle-class tax hikes?

?

[Hep]

28. Are you new?

You're maybe unaware that the left has been long known as the "tax and spend" side of the debate? That regardless of who the D is, it's always about D's wanting to raise taxes? Which D candidate has been able to AVOID that argument, exactly? I'd like to visit his grave.

[Yupster]

29. Clinton ran on a middle class tax cut

Once he got in, he said the books were far worse than he expected to see, and he would not be able to do his tax cut.

[drfemoe]

32. links?

references? quotes? someone who knows someone who said it? anything?

[_Jumper_]

36. Thanks

However, that is significantlly different than rolling back tax cuts that were already passed.

[drfemoe]

31. I don't remember every word

he said while campaigning .. but I doubt he came into office saying "no new taxes" and passed new taxes three months later.

You can do the campaign research if you really want to know...
which is what I would do if I really wanted to know.

This story was published on Friday, March 19, 1993.

http://www-tech.mit.edu/V113/N15/house.15w.html

House Approves Clinton Plan to Raise Taxes, Slash Defecit
By Eric Pianin
The Washington Post
WASHINGTON

The House Thursday nightapproved 243-183 the broad outlines of President Clinton's five-year economic plan, a new Democratic vision for reinvigorating the economy and reducing the deficit by $510 billion that would require a huge tax increase, bruising cuts in defense and major "investment" spending.

Under the plan, adopted as part of a multi-year budget resolution, Pentagon spending over the next five years will be slashed by $115.7 billion more than was recommended by President George Bush -- a move that will cause widespread layoffs in the defense industry and fuel additional base closings.

[forgethell]

34. Extremely poorly

That's why only the rich are taxed. /sarcasm