Why Howard Dean cannot win a general election

[webkev]

We're doomed people


http://www.hackwriters.com/howarddean.htm

Howard Dean will never be president. He is a bizarre amalgam of Michael Dukakis and George McGovern rolled into an unpolished, ornery fire breather built to appeal to the extreme left wing of a party currently lost on the national political scene.

[mzmolly]

1. Marcus?

:hi:

[Rowdyboy]

10. I'm beginning to see why you Dean people are so pissed off...

I'm sorry. If I could muzzle these idiots I would unfortunately, there's no known way.

[janx]

16. Thanks RB. I have my own theory about the situation, but I'm

not allowed to post it here.

If you understand my meaning, that is...

[Padraig18]

53. You've always been civil.

It seems to be the newer Clark supporters here at DU that are rabidly anti-Dean? Did you guys have a signup sheet for DU over at your campaigns blog, or something? J/K.... :P

[Kool Kitty]

58. Please don't think we're all like this.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

45. Who's "Marcus"?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[deutsey]

2. Oh. Well. That settles it then.

:shrug:

[Don Claybrook]

7. Yeah, let's pack up.

I'm just going to campaign for Goldwater this time around. Or maybe I'll throw my support behind Admiral Stockdale. Remember him? :)

[FubarFly]

9. Yeah, I guess that leaves me more time to work on my..

er..golf. Although first I have to learn how to play golf. :-)

[Scott Lee]

3. How's it going, Marcus!

[ibegurpard]

4. Another opinion masquerading as "fact."

getting very tiresome.

[arcane1]

5. um

ok....

Howard Dean, that zany leftist :eyes:

[Cocoa]

6. extreme left?

every time the TV people call Dean a lefty, I laugh out loud, thinking who would believe that shit?

Do you?

[webkev]

26. the article doesn't say Dean is a lefty

because Dean is more a Centrist..
but because he is completely antiwar then he appeals to radical left

[NicoleM]

28. He's completely antiwar?

That's news to me. . .and Howard Dean.

[Ripley]

29. You really do a disservice for Clark, unless you

really don't support him either.

You don't have any facts right. Dean is not completely anti-war. He has always said he supported Kosovo, GW1 and Afghanistan. Which part don't you get?

Oh yeah, yer playing "dumb."

[webkev]

31. in terms of the Iraq War

he is the most angriest.. so people who hate Shrub with a passion want to side with someone who also hates Shrub with a passion (and lets it show),,

[ulysses]

32. "because he is completely antiwar"

How to say this and follow the civility rules?

Your statement that Dean is completely antiwar is factually incorrect, friend, as is your implication that only the "radical" left is antiwar. Perhaps you'd like to recheck Dean's statements, as well as get to know some of the folks who were out protesting last February and March, and check back. Hmm?

[HuckleB]

40. Ummm.

It calls Dean an "an anti-war, radically motivated fiscal and social New England liberal." If that ain't calling him a full-blooded lefty, then what is?

[Crunchy Frog]

51. I've been around members of the radical left

and at the time time I was a Dean supporter, and believe me, he does not appeal to them.

[Scott Lee]

57. You clearly don't know enough radical leftists.

Maybe your group was the coffee clutch lefties....you know, the ones who want to change the world one latte at a time?

[VermontDem2004]

8. Oh great

Another one of these threads. :eyes:

[Jacobin]

11. Hiya Marcus

:hi:

Content is getting a little stale. Need something new and more inflammatory.

[VermontDem2004]

12. rotflmao

Need something new and more inflammatory.

[Cleita]

13. Is this an oracle that has spoken?

Or is it another Dean bash? You decide. My opinion thinks Kucinich is more like Dukakis and McGovern, not Dean, who reminds me of Harry Truman. He will be our next President if we have an honest election.

[TexasPatriot]

33. i dont think it was an oracle

afterall - there were no supplications, no 'you owe the oracle' something witty, and no how many chucks could a woodchuck named howard dean chuck questions.

I dont mind people taking a crack at Dean over something they feel is important (' dont like his environmental record', 'i'm afraid of X', etc) - Hell I see plenty of attacks on Clark and Kerry et al around here that go into a fair amount of detail and try to make the argument stick.

But this thing is just 6000 words of vitriol distilled down to 2000. Make an argument, put some meat on it, or shut up.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

14. Extreme left wing? Howard Dean? What the hell?

How about moderate liberal Howard Dean.

[ulysses]

23. you didn't get the memo?

Anyone to the left of, oh, Ghengis Khan is now to be understood as "extreme".

[Scott Lee]

60. He doesn't have to be extreme left to get support from pragmatists

Many of us lefties are such creatures, you know. My support for him is based heavbily on two issues: Truncate the PNAC/Forever War crowd, and throw out the criminals currently squatting in my government. Dean doesn't have to be able to sing The Internationale by heart in order to get THIS Red's vote.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

67. I'm a red for sure, but I wasn't criticising Dean. I was criticising the

guy who called him extreme left wing, which he isn't, and shouldn't be.

[wysimdnwyg]

15. And I'm from the Democrat (sic) Party!

"...an anti-war, radically motivated fiscal and social New England liberal will never win key independents in the mid-west or the south.

The last one to pull that off needed to cheat, and then had his head blown off before repeating the deed...."

Gee, this guy doesn't like John Kennedy, either. I'm sure he's a well respected, life-long Democrat. :dunce:

I read the article

&
James Campion, the author, who is listed as a journalist from New Jersey when I look around on the site says
"an anti-war, radically motivated fiscal and social New England liberal will never win key independents in the mid-west or the south."

I don't live there anymore, but I lived in the mid-west for 35 years and I don't agree with this statement from my contacts in the mid-west and south.

and where is he getting this from?

"on the national scene Gore is an anathema. He has the stank of defeat on him,"


While I'm typing this out, I bet others have posted a few juicy replies. I'll go look now.

[KaraokeKarlton]

56. He must be talking about Mid-West and South Jersey

LMAO! What a tool!

[1songbird]

17. Interesting because Dean's record does not show

an extreme left platform. I think he has more centrist appeal than people give him credit for. Clark's my guy but I have to give Dean more credit than Dukakis and McGovern.

[slinkerwink]

25. thanks for saying that

[knight_of_the_star]

18. That was stupid

If you are going to post something like that, at least TRY to use facts, not just some other guy's opinion.

[Ripley]

19. Aw shit, not the we're doomed crap again...

Are you guys going through puberty?

[holeinboatoutatsea]

20. I'm so confused

http://www.deanforamerica.com/#

[slinkerwink]

21. POO

:hurts:

[MercutioATC]

54. Best response yet...just "poo"

POO

[Scott Lee]

61. Goddamit, you beat me to the punch. AGAIN.

[edzontar]

22. Sorry Marcus, but your moment in the sun is over--check the Madonna thread

nt

[Screaming Lord Byron]

24. Shall we take bets on how long it takes for this flamebait to get locked?

On edit - Bush will need a Doctor. Now who does that make me think of?

[webkev]

27. i give it a minute (nt)

[edzontar]

30. YOU started it, Marcus!!!!

Seriously, go to the Madonna thread-its funnier.

[Scott Lee]

62. Actually, it won't be. New orders from the top.

I'm not the only one that has detected a top down frowning on Howard Dean here at DU lately. It came down after Saddam's capture.

[HuckleB]

34. Where's the Beef?

I'm sorry, but that piece left my head hurting. It offered no substance, not even something to reply to. Why did you post it?

[denverbill]

35. Goddang son. If Dean is so godawful why is he on your ticket?

Clark/Dean 2004 and you post this atrocious crapola?

[HuckleB]

37. I was just thinking the same thing.

it's a little bizarre. Not to mention the Superman get up. Scary.

[webkev]

39. I never said he was awful

I like him.. he just won't win
people know it, they don't care..

my hate for shrub makes me react to anything I see standing in the way of his departure back to his ranch.. and maybe to jail

I disagreed with the anti dean ads, but they scared me and made me think about what the repugs will do

[ulysses]

42. so why

do you still want him as Clark's vp?

[webkev]

43. because I like him

he will not win the GE though
check around.. I am not the only one who shares that opinion

he can be president in 2008 for all i care.. but lets win now for the sake of all thats good

Howard Dean has a good spirit, but that won't hold up to the repugs

[nomaco-10]

46. Where would you suggest we check.....

around to? Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Karl Rove, Joe Scarborough or that authority to end all authorities, Bill O'Really? Links Please!

[webkev]

47. look around this board for start (nt)

[nomaco-10]

36. Rasberry...

Grunt... Squirt... POOP!

[PATRICK]

38. refreshingly concise

is about all I can say. One polite correction. There is no extrreme left wing of any voice or potency in the USA. It is not lost. It is not there at all.

The only extremists in America in force are fascist style and the only counter to them is the rational idealism of the people supporting Dean. Candidate competition I can put into perspective, even the rootin' tootin'(on edit for proper colloquilaism)) free for all posted above. Not understanding who is trying to save the nation in the grass roots organization would be fatal for all. By implication it is his supporters that define Dean's "ultra liberalism"? Hoo hah. Try winning an election without them this time.

Perhaps a more intelligent worry about Dean's relative strengths vis a vis the others is dangerous ground, but it is generally not tromped with subtle feet.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VermontDem2004]

44. why get angry over it

It basically says nothing more then "we are doomed!!!"

[wabeewoman]

48. Sorry Webkev

but you've been reading the repug 'talking points' and believing. 'unpolished onery fire breather' PLEEEZE. Who even reads crap like that let alone base an opinion on it. It makes me all the more convinced Dean is the man because the repugs are RUNNING SCARED!

[janx]

49. Yes indeed they are.

Imagine that!

[MGKrebs]

50. 10,000 Georgians disagree.

[PatrickS]

52. I wonder who's going to start tomorrow's...

"Why Howard Dean cannot win a general election" thread. What's DU without one?

[Zorra]

55. Will you vote for Dean if he is nominated?

I sure will. And I think any Dem that gets nominated will kick Scrubs a$$.

[ecstatic]

59. keep letting the rightwing scare you

They talk trash about Hilary Clinton too. We all know that if she ran for President she would WIN BY A LANDSLIDE!

[Duder]

63. Whatever...

[DemCam]

64. It's not about supporting the nominee

It's about getting a nominee that has the best chance of beating Bush, the best command of the world that we live in now, the best man, since it won't be Carol this year, who can defend the values of the Democratic Party and yet bring in the vote from the broadest spectrum of voters.

That man is Wes Clark...as unpolished as he sometimes appears...meaning lack of glibness...

He is the man, quite simply, who can help us walk throught the minefield that Bush, et. all have laid for the United States of America.

[GoldenOldie]

65. Where are you coming from????

I remember Dukakis and McGovern ....anyone who lived through their era cannot relate Dean to them, but is buying into the Neocon's latest polititical ploy in order to divide and conquer. I have always crossed party lines believing I should select the person and not the party. Times have changed and the "GOP" has become a party of Neocon's that serve not the country but the corporations and the richest segiment of our nation. The Neocon's garner their strength on the religious weak and uniformed part of our society, which buys into their "you are one of us" mentality all the time screwing them out of their rightful place in our nation.
I have endured numerous Presidiential elections but I believe this time in our Nation's historyh, whe ere the Democrats have a quality group of candidates to chose from are exceptional. I say, fight for your choice of canditate but be prepared to support the winner....our nation depends on it...4 more years of Georgie can only be harmful to us all.

[mzmolly]

66. Exactly my point in an earlier thread...

for those that saw it :eyes:

Were doomed with BUSH. Dean will WIN!