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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 02:58 AM
Original message
We Are a Minority Party, an open letter to DU
Democrats...We are a minority party in representation but not in participation. Our last three national elections were Democratic majorities. Your neighbor knows that as does the nation and the world. We hold and can maintain the high ground.

Republicans have squandered their party to fear, pandered to hate and prostituted their principles to the highest bidder.

This election is a clear referendum on American policy, both here at home and abroad.

The last three years has seen an unprecedented assault on basic American institutions. Meicare has been gutted. Social Security has been targeted for privitization. Environmental safeguards have been overturned or sidestepped. International agreements have been abandoned. Basic constitutional rights for American citizens have been diminished or denied. Anti trust laws have been circumvented to accomodate corporate monopolies. Foriegn policy has become a corporate/national security enigma.

Democrats, across the spectrum, have presented alternatives to these policies. Each candidate running for the Democratic ticket has a response to the Republican agenda. More importantly, each candidate has a Democratic agenda for the country.

I ask all of you to encourage "your candidate" to bring this debate to the Republicans. It is an election we can win for America.
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pcx99 Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 03:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. I don't look forward to the next election -- not at all.
    Democrats...We are a minority party in representation but not in participation.


And, unfortunately, rushing headlong deeper into the minority pit. It may well be that this time next year, democrats will not even have the votes to keep a senate fillibuster going.

    Republicans have squandered their party to fear, pandered to hate and prostituted their principles to the highest bidder.


Again, unfortunately, I don't see this. The hate I see is comming from the "hate bush" democrats, trying to pander to seniors fear over the drug bill and selling their soul to foreign interests in raising campaign money ( Canadians for dean and other wonderful such tactics and yes I know they've shut down but WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?). And don't think the country didn't notice the democrats voting to allow illegal (lets stress that -- illegal) aliens to have a drivers license (!!!!) to pander to the hispanic vote.

    This election is a clear referendum on American policy, both here at home and abroad.


Not abroad -- abroad has nothing to do with our elections. I know its fashionable to think we're all a global village but we're not. We are a government that's elected by our citizens, not frenchmen, not germans, not canadians. Pander to the "abroad" community and we'll really see how deep that minority pit can go.

As for the referendum, 2/3rds of American people support the war in Iraq and 80% believe it's made us safer and probably more now that lybia has capitulated. The democrat's strategy of becomming the anti-war party will not play well in the next election and while I get the sense that many people on this forum are hoping and praying for another domestic terrorist attack so they can say "I told you so", being the anti-war party when this country is under attack is even worse than being the anti-war party when 2/3rds of American's support our present actions.

So yes, the election is a clear referendum on American Policy and it's my belief that the Democrats are going to get smacked pretty hard.

    The last three years has seen an unprecedented assault on basic American institutions. Meicare has been gutted. Social Security has been targeted for privitization. Environmental safeguards have been overturned or sidestepped. International agreements have been abandoned. Basic constitutional rights for American citizens have been diminished or denied. Anti trust laws have been circumvented to accomodate corporate monopolies. Foriegn policy has become a corporate/national security enigma.


Yes and none of this will play well during the next election because it will all be overshadowed by the war on terror and the economy, and really since the number one concern of American's is dealing with the terrorist threat to this nation, the economy will have to tank REALLY hard to become an issue (which all indications say it will not, quite the oposite in fact).

Medicare will continue to function and will function with a drug card and the promise of drug coverage at the next election, any problems with it are future unrealized problems so it's a non-issue until something actually breaks. Ditto for social security. Seniors have been ooga boogaed about social security not being there for them since it was founded to the point where they won't be concerned about anything until their checks stop coming or are less than they were before.

American's don't care squat about international agreements, the vast majority of American's would very much like to see the UN dismantled, aren't overy thrilled with nafta, and probably give a small prayer of thanks every time they pay their winter heating bill that the kyoto protocols failed (and btw you can thank france for the kyoto failure, it wasn't the US that broke it). But the only big agreement we actually broke was the anti-ballistic missle treaty and American's really strongly support missle shields (even if they are imperfect) so there's no political points there. And big business has long since taken over the world, we're all pretty resigned to it.

Yes I know you can argue how the world will end on each and every point, but politically they're non-issues for the reasons I mentioned.

    Democrats, across the spectrum, have presented alternatives to these policies. Each candidate running for the Democratic ticket has a response to the Republican agenda. More importantly, each candidate has a Democratic agenda for the country.


But the Democrats don't have an agenda for the important issue. I've watched dean bash the Iraq war but not once has he come up with an alternative. Nor will he say how he'd address the proliferation of WMD in the arab states or the rampant anti-americanism and terrorism being fostered by those same arab states. You do know, do you not, that palestinian textbooks from kindergarten to high-school preach hatred of YOU -- yes YOU, not just jews, and but of the entire west and America in particular, the same is true of syria, egypt, saudi arabia, and formerly of Iraq and Afghanistan.

It's not enough to say "the war in Iraq was a mistake" you've got to say how YOU would make the world safer. But the democrates aren't and that's a REAL problem come election day.

I'm a yellow dog democrat but right now I'd vote for a yellow dog before I'd vote for anyone save Leiberman who is the only candidate that actually seems to not drive me into a blind rage over statements that are tantamount to treason and comfort to our enemies in a time of war (yes war, there are people over in Iraq putting their lives on the line every single day and one of them is my Cousin) and it sure isn't patriotic to be saying that they're wrong to be over there and it was a mistake to be over there.

Unfortunately Leiberman isn't going to win the democratic party nomination as the party moves so far to the left its driving its conservative core to the republicans out of total disgust.

So don't plan any big parties next year. It's not going to happen because the Dems do not have a message that's going to play.

Which is bad for the dems and bad for America.


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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. It's late so I'll just make a couple of comments

about your post. First, you're correct about some things, I think, but wrong about others. You don't seem to like Dems very much right now -- hey, are you Zell Miller? (I just wrote several paragraphs explaining him, kind of defending him and his right turn since he's been in D.C.)

Second, one thing you said is a mistake on your part, I think. You cited this from the original post:

"This election is a clear referendum on American policy, both here at home and abroad."

And then you opined:

"Not abroad -- abroad has nothing to do with our elections"

I think the original poster was talking about this election being a referendum on Bush's domestic and foreign policies, nothing more. Which any presidential election should be, in my opinion.
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Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. "Unfortunately Lieberman isn't going to win"
There, there: you can vote for a real Republican instead.

Your first post to DW amounted to a sad recitation of the hopeless capitulation to its agenda that right wing America would like Democrats to make. Ack, what a dour and spiteful recipe!

As for your self-professed "blind rage" over the protest of our illegal and immoral wars, fella, that's a pity. Rage dulls the mind.
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Not quite
Again, unfortunately, I don't see this. The hate I see is comming from the "hate bush" democrats, trying to pander to seniors fear over the drug bill and selling their soul to foreign interests in raising campaign money

It isn't panmdering to infomr people about a wasteful bill that will negatively impact them. That isn't fear mongering, that is being honest about something they have every reason to fear. As far as selling their soul to foreign interests -- thats fine -- it is when they sell out America it bothers me. According to a 12-8-2003 Opensecrets document, Republicans have received $1,869,119 of Foreign PAC money as compared to $991,139 given to Dems.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/foreign.asp

As for the referendum, 2/3rds of American people support the war in Iraq and 80% believe it's made us safer and probably more now that lybia has capitulated. The democrat's strategy of becomming the anti-war party will not play well in the next election and while I get the sense that many people on this forum are hoping and praying for another domestic terrorist attack so they can say "I told you so", being the anti-war party when this country is under attack is even worse than being the anti-war party when 2/3rds of American's support our present actions.

Where to start...

I'd like a link to your stats. Accorind to the lastest CBS poll, 18% believe Saddam's capture has made us safer
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/17/opinion/polls/main589167.shtml
Additionally, Tom Ridge put us at Orange alert today. "Ridge announced in a hastily arranged news conference Sunday that he was raising the national threat level to orange, the second-highest level, saying attacks were possible during the holidays and that threat indicators are “perhaps greater now than at any point” since Sept. 11, 2001."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3776558/

the economy will have to tank REALLY hard to become an issue

It has tanked really hard. There is a net job loss since Bush took over.

(yes war, there are people over in Iraq putting their lives on the line every single day and one of them is my Cousin) and it sure isn't patriotic to be saying that they're wrong to be over there and it was a mistake to be over there.

Why is it not patriotic to question an unpatriotic policy? supporting the troops by keeping them out of unnecessary conflict, and supporitng them properly when conflict is required is patriotic. Were those opposed to Vietnam unpatriotic? How about those who opposed NATO action in Yugoslvia (Bosnia or Kosovo)? Somolia? Grenada?

Opposing a war does not make one unpatriotic. The very real sense that people are engaged in the issue, frankly, calls to the opposite conclusion. To question people's patriotism who are engaged in running for president is, to be charitable, not well thought out. In fact it reflects the spin of Fox News.

While well written, your statements are documentably incorrect, and they conclusions are not only based on said misinformation, but do not culminate logically from your argument.


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are_we_united_yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. delete
Edited on Mon Dec-22-03 07:56 AM by are_we_united_yet
posted to wrong message
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are_we_united_yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. You are incorrect
It is a global village
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. not in 2000 he didn't
Gore: 50996039

Bush: 50456141

5096039 > 5046141


Additionally, the media recount of Florida not only had Gore winning, but increased the vote margin by a few 10,000 more.
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pcx99 Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Yup. Bush had more votes than clinton ever did but he did lose the popular vote to gore -- a quirk of the US electorial college. Of course this wasn't helped by the fact that gore lost his own home state.

    Additionally, the media recount of Florida not only had Gore winning, but increased the vote margin by a few 10,000 more.


After watching the news this year, I refuse to give this any weight. THe media has it's own agenda and daily manipulates facts and figures to its own ends. Fox does this, CNN does this, the NY Times does this. We saw this with the LA times poll shortly before the governor's recall, we saw this on day 3 of the iraq war when things became a quagmire and we see it daily as Iraq is portrayed as vietnam.

Even if the recount was totally politically neutral it would still be biased to Al Gore because the contraversy would sell more papers.

The only recount that will matter is the one in 2004.
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Bush lost his home state of CT too
But he won the state he lived in for the last few years.

Gore, Lost TN, but won DC, where he has lived for the last few years.

Gore won FL if the state laws had been followed. This was clear by a simple count of the overvotes. Media agenda (and it isn't bent to the left) had little or nothing to do with the recount tallies.

Gore won Florida without the need of a single hanging or dimpled chad. Gore won Florida despite the badly flawed Palm Beach Butterfly ballot.

Gore won Florida despite the Absentee Ballot tampering (this inludes both late votes, and the documented tampering.

You can pick all the nits you want, but I have the facts on my side and will win.

So keeop your lies and damned lies to yourself. I'll stick with the tangible vote count.
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are_we_united_yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Planet?
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