Was Nathan Hale a member of the Armed Forces?

[Warren Stuart]

He was a spy who was executed for his activities, does he deserve the honor that has been accorded to him?

[ArkDem]

He was commissioned as First Lieutenant in the Seventh Connecticut regimen

.

[bryant69]

1. Yeah but was he our spy?

I mean if he was spying for the right side, well that makes a difference.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[TorchTheWitch]

13. yes, he was spying for our side

Interesting that this came up as I'm just now reading a novel that incorporates the story of Nate Hale, and intrigued by it, just last night I spent quite a bit of time researching Hale.

In 1775, Hale was a commissioned lieutenant in the Seventh Connecticut militia and later joined the Continental Army in the Nineteenth Continental Regiment and was stationed in Boston. He became a captain and went to New York City with his regiment on April 30, 1776. He was selected by Lt. Col. Thomas Knowlton to lead a company of the famous Knowlton Rangers. Later that summer General Washington asked Lt. Col. Knowlton for a volunteer from his rangers to spy on the British troops on Long Island.

This request led to his volunteering to spy on the British in Long Island. Interesting note that spying in those days was considered vastly ungentlemanly, and he was chastised by friends and fellow soldiers about his not only agreeing to do such a lowly thing but that he actually volunteered to do it.

Nate Hale is honored as our country's first spy (although he failed his first mission so badly that he was caught and hung), and he is Connecticut's official state hero. Hale was captured by the British and hanged on September 22, 1776 at the age of 21. It is also speculated from past writings that he was betrayed by his own cousin who was a British sympathizer, and it was this betrayal that led to his capture. As the story goes, the British executioner asked if he had any final words, and apparently he replied "I only regret I have but one life to lose for my country." These words come from a popular play at the time called "Cato":

"How beautiful is death, when earn'd by virtue!
Who would not be that youth? What pity is it
That we can die but once to serve our country!"
~ Joseph Addison, 1713, from "Cato", Act 4 - Scene 4

From information gleaned through old manuscripts and letters, it is speculated that certain phrases from "Cato" were to be used as codes should Hale's mission fail and he was caught he could still get what information he learned back to his superiors. Supposedly, these code phrases were meant to be included in letters that normally a captured enemy would have been permitted to write to his family. However, he was denied permission to have such letters forwarded, so it may be that he chose these words to say before his public execution in an attempt that the information would be passed by an observer. However, it is also speculated if he actually used those words or not. There are several examples gleaned from past writings that cite different "last words." Then again, customarily, one who is about to be executed is given the opportunity to give a short speech, and it may be that all, some of none of the several reported phrases were used.

It is not known where the body of Hale now lies as he was left hanging for three days as was the custom (a gruesome warning to the rebels) and then cut down, his body cast into an unmarked grave somewhere in Manhattan.

There are several statues of him in various places throughout the country. One such statue is at Yale University where Hale was a student, and the same rendition of this statue is also at Langley, home of the CIA. It is not known what Hale looked like and the statue is an artist's rendition using reports of his general appearance. The statue shows him bound with rope at the feet and also bound with rope with his hands behind his back.



A different statue of Hale stands in New York's City Hall.

There are several places that bear plaques or monuments having to do with Hale and his mission. There is one such plaque on the side of a building at the corner of Third Avenue and 66th Street which is the approximate location of Hale's execution. There is also a boulder called the Nathan Hale Stone in Huntington that bears a plaque which states: "captured by the British on this shore Sep. 1776" except it is most likely that he was actually captured in New York, not in Huntington. The original Hale family homestead is also a museum dedicated to Nate Hale and receives approximately 3500 visitors per year.

The Hale story is quite interesting perhaps because there are still so many gaps in the story and still much speculation. One such interesting bit is that it is reported that Hale had no offspring, however, it is also rumored from bits and pieces of past writings that he was helped in his mission by an attractive young widow who it was said later gave birth. What is interesting is that timelines seem to refute that she was impregnated by her recently dead husband. So it may or may not be that there are decendants of Nate Hale, and to this day from what has been learned, it still cannot be reported accurately either way.

[kskiska]

15. I attended Nathan Hale Junior High School in Conn.

His quote was on a stone memorial out in front. I read about the "Cato" story, too, but the speculation was that he said it in jest, to mock the British.

[mikehiggins]

2. Not a very good spy, either

but it was his willingness to die for his country that made him notable in the history of the Revolution.

He was a civilian, he was a spy (what the British considered a traitor to the Crown), he was caught (supposedly through his own ineptness--apparently he couldn't keep his mouth shut among supposed friends) and he was executed.

And none of his relatives suggested he was a soldier after the fact.

So I must admit I miss the point of your post.

[ArkDem]

4. You are wrong

http://www.ctssar.org/patriots/nathan_hale.htm

[mikehiggins]

9. Thanks for the correction. I did not know that.

It isn't what we don't know that hurts us, as someone once said, but what we do know that's wrong.

Now I have to crank Hale quite a few more notches up in my estimation.

Thanks again for the information.

[ArkDem]

11. Ain't no thang...

.

[Warren Stuart]

8. Despite his ineptness

He is an honored war hero, to most people in the general public he was a spy whose only regret is that he "had but one life to give to his country".

What is the perception of the average person in this country? Would a reasonable person know of the issues in the above posts? Most likely this person wouldn't. Would a reasonable person consider Nathan Hale to be a member of the Armed Forces. Most likely this person would.

Can a person be a spy and a member of the Armed Forces? I say yes and most reasonable people would agree with me.

The point of my post involves the Charlie Dean controversy, if he was working for the government, and was killed for his activities then he deserves to be called a member of the Armed Forces. Even though technically he wasn't.

[tjdee]

3. Do people just not understand what Armed Services means?

I mean, really.

A spy is not a member of our armed services.
In Hale's case however he had also been a first lieutenant.

[ArkDem]

5. Captian

.

[tjdee]

6. Woops, thanks. nt

[WoodrowFan]

12. yeah but..

it's still serving your country. Who risks their life more, the civilian spy in an enemy country or the serviceman in the motorpool in Arlington? Hale served his country whether he was officially in the military or not. He didn't do a very good job, but still, he tried to do more than Bush and the rest of the many chickenhawks combined.

[tjdee]

14. That is a separate issue.

Of course espionage is a valuable service to the country.

However, that STILL does NOT make it part of the US Armed Services.

It appears to me that many people (not you) are trying to make this about the value of Charles Dean and his possible work. It isn't. It is about whether Charles Dean was a member of the armed services. He was not--and saying so is not disrespectful to him. It is a statement of fact.

[punpirate]

7. Does it really, truly fucking matter...

... with the 2004 election approaching?

Put your attentions where they count.

This is a silly distraction compared to what is necessary now.

[Warren Stuart]

10. Yes it does matter.

I'm just nipping that "Howard is liar" crap in the bud.

Whatever we do to ourselves, the Republicans are going to magnify it ten times over. The less work we do for them now, the harder they will have to work later.