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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 04:05 PM
Original message
Tech jobs quieting shifting over to India at alarming pace
US companies moving more jobs to India but quietly
Wednesday December 24 2003 14:27 IST
Reuters

NEW YORK: US corporations are picking up the pace in shifting well-paid technology jobs to India, China and other low-cost centres, but they are keeping quiet for fear of a backlash, industry professionals said.

Morgan Stanley estimates the number of US jobs outsourced to India will double to about 150,000 in the next three years. Analysts predict as many as two million US white-collar jobs such as programmers, software engineers and applications designers will shift to low cost centers by 2014.

But the biggest companies looking to "offshoring" to cut costs, such as Microsoft Corp., International Business Machines Corp. and AT&T Wireless, are reluctant to attract attention for political reasons, observers said this week.

"The problem is that companies aren't sure if it's politically correct to talk about it," said Jack Trout, a principal of Trout & Partners, a marketing and strategy firm. "Nobody has come up with a way to spin it in a positive way."

This causes a problem for publicly traded companies, which would ordinarily brag about cost savings to investors. Instead, they send vague signals that they are opening up operations in India and China, but often decline to elaborate.

Moreover, on the threshold of a US presidential election year, job losses are a hot button issue. A company that highlighted a major job transfer could wind up in the campaign debate.

Multinationals find that when they trumpet expansion overseas, they cause problems at home. When Accenture Ltd. executives in India this month announced plans to double their staff to 10,000 next year, they triggered a flood of calls to the company's US offices about US job losses.

Offshoring companies "are paying Chinese wages and selling at US prices," said Alan Tonelson, of the US Business and Industrial Council, a trade group for small business. "They're not creating better living standards for America."

The US sales director for one of India's top computer services providers said his company has won business from customers such as Walt Disney Co., Time Warner Inc.'s CNN and the Fox division of News Corp. -- none of which want public disclosure.

In India, some technology companies have recently adopted lower profiles. Microsoft Corp. has been removing its name from minibuses used to ferry engineers on overnight shifts. Major Indian beneficiaries of US business such as Infosys Technologies Ltd., Wipro Ltd. and Satyam Computer Services Ltd. have stopped identifying new customers.

While there have been reports that IBM intends to ship 4,700 high-end jobs to India and China next year, they mark a rare instance when figures "have been reported in black and white," said Linda Guyer, president of Alliance zIBM, a union that has tried to organize IBM employees.

Those numbers were not released by IBM, but rather disclosed by the Wall Street Journal, which had obtained an internal memo. The company has declined to comment.

Guyer believes as many as 40,000 of IBM's 160,000 US jobs will be transferred overseas by 2005, a figure she says was gathered from phone calls by IBM employees.

Previously, IBM has pointed to a report by the McKinsey Global Institute that concludes the US economy ultimately will benefit. The report was commissioned by Nasscom, a group made up of Indian tech companies as well as IBM's Indian services unit -- showing an effort by those invested in offshoring to sway public opinion.

Recently, AT&T Wireless told the US Securities & Exchange Commission that it would lay off 1,900 employees this year. Communications Workers of America members obtained an internal memo prepared by Tata Consultancy Services of India that discussed how it would assume those US jobs.

Subsequently, AT&T Wireless officials acknowledged it was exploring the job shifts but didn't offer details.

While some companies, such as Electronic Data Systems Corp. , CAP Gemini Ernst & Young and Sapient Corp., acknowledge they shift jobs abroad to exploit cost advantages and around-the-clock work, IBM asserts that it is not moving jobs but creating new ones.

"It's a business strategy, period. You cut costs. You revamp. You look at what your mission statement says and try to turn a profit," said Sylvia Thomas, who was laid off by chipmaker Agere Systems Inc. after declining offers to relocate to headquarters in Allentown, Pennsylvania or to Singapore.

http://www.newindpress.com/Newsitems.asp?ID=IEN20031224040656&Title=Infotech&Topic=0
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. So can we really be a nation of management?
What happens when there are no jobs here where anyone actually DOES anything?
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drdigi420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. economic implosion
its coming

unless we stop it

dont just vote, make sure you get 4 other ppl to vote

we have to win by a landslide to overcome the cheating
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Serenades Donating Member (282 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. . . .
well, i think i've got six people so far. i doubt the masses will wake up until its too late. too many people are worrying about terrorism and thinking that the mighty warrior gwb is leading them to safety.
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Nomad559 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Microsoft's plan to save jobs
Microsoft's plan to save jobs is both futile and dangerous

-Snip-

Steve Ballmer, chief executive of Microsoft, has an idea on how to stop the US from losing computer software jobs to India: produce more engineers.

"People focus often times on the labour rate differential. But the thing that's most troubling is the graduation rate of technical graduates," Ballmer lamented at a conference in NewYork last month. "In the US, we have fewer computer science graduates today than we did five years ago."

US universities graduated 100,000 engineers and computer scientists in 2001. In comparison, Indian colleges produce 167,000 engineers a year, or 67 per cent more. Ballmer says that low supply is keeping US engineers' wages too high and causing job losses. Software engineers in the US earn an average annual salary of $75,000 and those jobs pay about $20,000 a year in India. The huge difference means most US companies will send work abroad.

Lower the pay of US professionals to $50,000, Ballmer suggests, and it won't make sense for employers to put up with the hassle of doing business in theThird World. (Kent Hollenback, a spokesman for Microsoft, declined to say what the company pays employees.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Lasso of Truth

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drdigi420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. geez, i guess it never occurred to them
to cut some of the CEO salaries?

maybe give the money to the people that actually produce?

nah, that would make too much sense

that would put too much spending money in the pockets of american families

that would boost the economy, even for the rich bastards

waaaay too much sense
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yankeedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. What a bunch of neocon bs
Then why Steve are thousands of AMERICAN engineers and computer science graduates UNEMPLOYED and unable to find even a help desk job, huh Steve? Maybe the reason that there are no computer science grads these days is because they CAN'T GET JOBS?????? Instead most of the US CS jobs are reserved for Indian and Chinese "graduates" with phonied up degrees and experience. And the rest just stay in India.

Sounds like the usurpers rose garden press conference which blamed unemployment on the workers not having the right skills......
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Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. Every time I call Compaq HP support
I get somebody IN India.
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LiberalEconomist Donating Member (293 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I have a feeling
that some of these customer service/tech support jobs will be coming back. Dell Computers, for instance, closed down its Indian call center and reestablished on in the US. Why? The Indians are not given the flexibility to assist customers fully. They use a transcript to deal with problems. So, quality of service becomes an issue, which may affect sales.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Only for corporate customers, Joe Consumer can jam it
or, Joe Consumer can pleased to jam it.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Then call HP and complain and tell them
you will never purchase another one of their products.
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. zulchzulu
Per DU copyright rules
please post only 4
paragraphs from the
news source.

Thank you

DU Moderator
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
10. Systems, network, and database administrators to follow.
All of the developer support jobs will move there too.
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NAGROM Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
11. I have to disagree with you on this one........
I read this and agree

"Time for some harsh reality. Someone needs to tell you folks that those jobs aren't yours. They don't belong to you. Those jobs belong to the business owners. You don't create a job and then head out there into the business world to sell that job to an business owner. Instead, you develop a set of skills which you then try to sell to a businessman. The job belongs to the businessman. The skills necessary to perform that job belong to you. If you can trade what's yours for what's his then you are in good shape. If your skills don't meet the needs of the employer job, or if you have priced your skills too high, then the employer will go elsewhere to find the skills he needs to fill his jobs."

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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I sure wish Bush would say that!
That's not what he said to the steel workers though.

We need more people like you saying things like that. Republicans and conservatives need to make the point you just made and make it very clearly. They should make it a plank in the Republican platform.

That would be cool. Finally a little honesty from the pubbies. Crazy, lame Republican bottom-line bozo honesty...they need to let it out.

Oh I so wish they had the guts.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
14. Profit is one thing, but ignoring the infrastructure is almost as evil
I'm not against profit, but I am against exploitation and greed and the cause of selfishness over the need of a strong society.

It's obvious that they will NOT lower prices to compensate for lower costs.

And it's disgusting that a pair of shoes that had cost $1 to make costs $99 on America's shelves. Tiger Woods should be proud, he advertises the company's name and gets big bucks for doing so. :eyes: Ditto for the $24 pair of shoes I normally buy, and they last just as long and had probably cost $0.50 to make. No big pompous logo on them either.

American corporations are a big reason why America is hated. We abuse the world, use/waste most of its resources, spend ourselves into a hole far larger than I could have ever have hoped to have nightmares about, and hoarde the world's most vicious and dangerous weapons...

And they incite software policy by overcharging their products. MS's own products (non-OS software at least) seems to go up for every new release. And when the price of the computer equals the price of the software running on it, things are way out of control. The last time this happened to Microsoft was in the 1970s when they wrote a BASIC language and charged $300; which was the same price that the hardware it had ran on had cost!

'nuff said.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
15. Dean: "I support NAFTA" - Clark: "Let India do those jobs"
No wonder the Democratic party is the Minority Party. Democrats: "Outsourcing is A-Okay!!!"

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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Yeah, we should switch to the Republicans.
They're on our side!!
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