Question on civility for foreign & American DUers

[Obamarama]

I am of the opinion that there is a dramatic reduction in the level of civility in American culture.

Rudeness has supplanted basic manners and the prevailing sense seems to be that people are for the most part out for themselves. Sort of an "I've got mine, and I don't care if you get yours" sort of mentality.

Whether it's in traffic, in line in the grocery store, or any number of venues, my fellow Americans seem to be rude, incosiderate and boorish.

Of course, there are a lot of decent people, but Americans Behaving Badly seems to be more prevalent than in times past. I chalk it up to the conservative element that is trying to take hold of our American culture. Everyone seems to think they are ENTITLED to do whatever they damned please without regard to how it affects the next person.

My questions are:

1) Do you have the same perception of American culture?

2) If you are from outstide the US, do you notice the same trend in your own country?

[TrogL]

1. No change in Canada

It's business has usual here except for a very small minority of RRR wackos, mostly in Calgary.

I refuse to visit the United States.

[MrPrax]

4. Yeah...I think twice these days

There are RR wackos every in Canada actually and the annoying part is that they are mostly Amero-philes. They seem to 'ape' the worst parts of American culture and none of the better parts. It is like they only watch American culture from the convenience of TV.

If anything they're 'rap' is tantamount to a 'traitor' attitude; they hate Canada for personal reasons and hate the fact the vast majority of people here don't think the way they want them to think (like supporting their miserable regressive political parties).

I also tend to think there is an element of 'outside' influence in these matters from the various US right wing groups that 'reach out' to individuals here with groups and funding...especially the CTF.

[sweetheart]

2. The rot of the oligarchy

I agree with your statement. It seems that some cultures are decidedly more polite than others, and that the brutish, yob element of any culture is as rude as of your speaking.

I do indeed see that american rot around, but less so in britain and i have not seen an increase at all. British culture is less time sensitive than american, and 50 years on, likely not so much of life will be different. The media artifice of "progress" and necessary social (read republican) revolution towards no society... that is an american problem at its root.

Politeness is an individual thing, despite the weight of culture, and every step towards it, benefits he/she who uses it... a sort of refined martial arts of getting along. Fewer fights start with the word "please" and "i'm sorry".

I've noticed that japan and britain (the first world island cultures) are especially ettiquette sensitive and all i can figure is that the cultures have for 1000's of years been in connection with many other cultures of different mind, and in learning the protocols of respect and difference, how can one come to any wisdom without ettiquette.

In europe, you can't presume the person you're speaking to speaks english, and you have to cut a fair amount of slack for misunderstanding and cultural mistakes.. and in to this void, ettiquette falls.

It is, IMO, due to the corporate media, that most americans learn their social skills from facile TV programmes, rather than from each other. Also, as the culture has no protocol for disagreement without a fight, it is unfortunate politically, as the humour of parliment question time is above american skills at debate. As long as the culture thinks it is the best in the universe with nothing to learn, the base crap you speak of will unfortunately flourish... but it is a sad state of affairs.

[Columbia]

5. I'd imagine personal space has a lot to do it

In island countries such as England and Japan, personal space is at a premium and being polite to one another may be the only way to stay sane.

This theory pretty much goes out the door in New York though. Oh well. :)

[sweetheart]

8. New Yorker's are my favorite

At least they're honest. Los Angeles is the rudest city in america with "lets do lunch someday" as the most abrasive statement far beyond "fuck you".

Granted, compared to a culture with politeness, it can be a bit wanting.. :)

[Baclava]

3. This reminds me of my tourista state........

Having lived in Greece for a year, I'd say U.S. drivers are pretty much toddlers compared to other countries, especially in Europe. However, I pretty much stay away from all the ugly american tourists overseas, they are pretty embarassing to be around. Back home - it only gets worse.

[teach1st]

6. I get the impression in my neighborhood...

...that politeness and civility are declining. I have particularly noticed this at the school where I teach (same neighborhood) over the past ten years - mostly a blue collar to poor, racially mixed neighborhood. By "at the school" I mean mostly the parents of the students are becoming WAY less civil over time. The kids can reflect his, but I can handle kids.

When I visit my parents (rural, middle to upper class, not as racially mixed) I don't notice a decline as much - but I'm only there three or four times each year and only a few days at a time.

My opinion is probably out of fashion, but I think the rudeness comes in great measure from what is seen and heard on the airwaves. When I visit the homes of students, I notice that their televisions are usually on (and not turned off for visitors).

I don't usually watch TV much at all, but I did this Winter break as I was also down with a cold. Yow!! There is some major rudeness going down on some of these shows - not to mention talk shows on radio.

Is the rude behavior on TV a reflection or a cause or both?

[classics]

9. Youre absolutely right.

American television promotes strife, fear and incivility.

I think the biggest reason many Brit shows become popular in the US is that they often lack the bile present in pretty much every American program.

America is becoming the 'Bumfight Nation'.

[Brian_Expat]

7. It's an offshoot of Bush-inspired "fear". . .

. . . people are always at their ugliest when they're "afraid." When we fear the world and plan to fight it, we're suspicious of "outsiders" and more interested in self-preservation than decency.

The supreme irony in that is that decency is the only thing that leads to self-preservation. Hatred and fear of others leads to self-destruction -- of the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and each other.

[interupt]

10. The small minority ruins it for all

1. Unfortunately yes

2. Australia: Starting to get that way but will take a while yet.

I do agree with some of your statement, however I also believe that people remember bad manners much more readily than acts of kindness.

I have heard a statistic that only 17% of US citizens hold a passport (could be wrong) and they are mostly the retiree set that decide to see the world, compare it to America and decide that the rest of the world is backward and does not conform to the US ideals. It is also statistically proven that the older generation are more conservative and tend to vote Republican so I believe you are correct in your assessment.

I went to Japan in 1999 for my honeymoon and was stunned at the way Americans ,and Americans only, behaved towards the Japanese. The results below were based on two tours, and one was trapped on a bus with 17 over 60's US Couples;

- "DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH!?"
- "I have come to see what we have conquered 40 years ago and how we improved it" (Wonder if this will happen in Iraq in 30 years?)
- "Where is the gift shop?" (Usually spoken at the start of the tour)
- "Do you take American Express?"
- "No we only stay in five star hotels, they speak English there."
- "No we only buy American products" (Spoken in the Ginza shopping district in Tokyo)
- "What a funny religion" (Spoken loudly at the Shrine of Ise where ALL Japanese will make a pilgrimage in their lifetime)
- "Ohio!" {Correct Translation = Ohayo meaning Good Morning} (Yelled at a store clerk at 2pm because it sounded "like the State")

[foreigncorrespondent]

11. You gave me some real thought material here.

1) Do you have the same perception of American culture?

Not at all. My opinion on Americans has never changed. Living in Australia, I do come across the occasional visiting American or expat, and apart from a couple of bad experiences, everyone has been really down to earth.

Living in the United States for the time that I did, I found it was mixed.

Prior to 9/11 everyone seemed welcoming, but after 9/11 a lot changed. I was in the United States when 9/11 happened (something I am extremely greatful for, because I would have been a wreck waiting to hear from my partner had I not been.) A friend of mine from the U.K. was also visiting the U.S. as well. We decided one morning to go into our favorite chat room. Biggest mistake of our lives. We were treated really badly by people we had known for quite a few years. One even had the gaul to tell us that as foreigners we needed to leave the United States and not even think about coming back, because we would never be welcomed, no foreigner would ever be welcome again.

But that is one in a bunch, ya know? Every country has assholes. And certainly not enough to change my perspective of Americans.

I love your country, and I love your people. My partner (as many here at DU know) is an American. No matter how your country treats us (meaning immigration laws for same sex couples), I will never lose interest in a country I have loved and admired since I was a little girl.

2) If you are from outstide the US, do you notice the same trend in your own country?

My country is very much laid back. We have our assholes here like every country does, but for the main part, it is the same as it always has been.

We are very welcoming, and love Americans. My partner is proof of that. She can't speak highly enough of how well she was treated here, when she was here last year.

[anakie]

12. I was in the states in April/May 03

travelling mainly through "smalltown USA" in Arizona, Utah, Idaho, Oregon, Washington and Alaska and invariably all the locals we met and talked to were extremely polite, especially so after discovering we were Aussies. Admittedly I never discussed politics unless it was brought up first and I did feel a bit uneasy about having a mild anti-war sticker on my car but the folks in these small towns were great.

It was only when we got to the big cities (sorry Seattle and Vegas) that people were rude. Why? Who can tell but it is similar to Australia in as much as Sydneyites and Melbournians appear ruder than those of us who live outside of major cities.